MovieChat Forums > Valkyrie (2008) Discussion > This movie is BS, most Germans clearly s...

This movie is BS, most Germans clearly supported Hitler and the war...

posted 9 years ago by al666940-3
20 replies | jump to latest

Otherwise Nazi Germany wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

Just because a few Germans plotted against Hitler a few times is supposed to absolve the whole country and somehow paint it as a general uprising and rebellion against him and the Nazis?

BS!!!!

There's no such thing as a ruler without detractors. Even God had a third of his angels turning against him (if you are a Christian). By that logic Hitler had many less detractors than God, so by sheer percentages alone he was more accepted than God himself.

So just because Hitler had incompetent plotters (they failed, right?) doesn't get Germans off the hook of standing behind Hitler to the bitter end.

Want to make a more interesting (and honest) movie? Make one that delves into WHY most Germans supported Nazism (a "monster" by Hitler's own words, it's spelled out right there in Mein Kamp) to begin with...

[–] puirt-a-beul 9 years ago

Ermm ... this is a true story. Almost all the details in the film really happened, and all the main characters really existed and did what was shown. So how is this film not "honest"?

There were nearly twenty separate assassination attempts on Hitler just during the war years. The film doesn't suggest that everyone, or even most, were anti-Hitler. But clearly there were people within Germany, and even within Hitler's command structure, who were.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that this is supposed to "absolve Germany". History tells the fuller story. This film is only setting out to tell one part of it. If you want to condemn Germany, apparently somewhat rabidly, then you're still free to do so.

You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

[–] al666940-3 9 years ago

"So how is this film not "honest"? "

Simple: count the number of characters (non extras) pro and anti Nazi. The pro crowd is majority. Yes it's a film about the plotters, however it narrows the focus in such a way as to make it seem most people were actually sympathetic to their cause.

Want an analogy? Any US war film depicting a particular US war crime (say Casualties of War or The Road to Guantanamo). The main detraction against those films is not their possible inaccuracy, but their "dishonest" portrayal of all US military as criminals by narrowing their focus on the specific incident and not bending over backwards stating how everybody else was moral and good and mighty.

At least that was the impression I got from the movie alone: that pretty much everybody was just hoping for the right moment/excuse to overthrow Hitler but it never came close enough.

"But clearly there were people within Germany, and even within Hitler's command structure, who were. "

As I said, name one single leader with no detractors and conspirators. Even Moses and Jesus had their share.

"If you want to condemn Germany, apparently somewhat rabidly, "

That's just @$$-covering on my part to avoid getting labelled "antisemitic" for daring to critique the sanctity of this film.

[–] puirt-a-beul 9 years ago

however it narrows the focus in such a way as to make it seem most people were actually sympathetic to their cause

That really wasn't the impression I got from the film.

For instance, after Operation Valkyrie is invoked, there are several scenes of von Stuaffenberg in his office calling various sectors and deployed troops, trying to drum up support. He and Beck are geting increasingly despairing, and a slow pan across the map where von Stauffenberg is marking out the sctors that have come onside shows how very few they are. I thought it was pretty clear, from the film, that von Stauffenberg and Beck (and the others) had wildly overestimated the support they would get, but that the majority really weren't going for it.

count the number of characters (non extras) pro and anti Nazi. The pro crowd is majority.

I hear what you're saying, and yes this may be an unfortunate impression the film gives, but I think it's only because most of the people the film focusses on are the co-conspirators, which is natural, until their coup starts to fail. And it is pretty clear that there aren't many of them.

So I guess we have different impressions from the film. But I really don't see how the film could have spent more time on non-conspirators in the earlier scenes. That said, though, in the very first scene in the African desert, the only character von Stauffenberg speaks to is a senior officer who clearly isn't on his side, which I think establishes from the start that he's out of the mainstream and swimming against the tide.

You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

[–] al666940-3 9 years ago

Good points. Maybe a second viewing is in order.

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

You must have seen a different film than the rest of us. I didn't the impression that the majority was sympathetic to the conspirators at all. I highly doubt that very many other people did, either.

The film focuses on a small group of people, not the entire country. Also, the film is one of the most accurate films about history, in history.

"Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."

[–] BrianRaess_Is_FinallyGone 9 years ago

At least that was the impression I got

And there's the problem with your argument.

[–] dgurpegui 9 years ago

So are we to blindly believe that there were no dissenters, that every German was true hard boiled Nazi that followed their leader blindly with no second thought as to how they felt? Do you honestly believe this? Most times, people are forced into being a part of something they don't want to be a part of simply because it would be treacherous or treasonous to do so. I don't believe everyone agreed with what was going on at the time. The majority of them were just afraid to speak their minds. There were nearly 20 attempts on Hitler's life for crying out loud! Clearly there was a majour lack of respect for what Hitler was doing at the time. Take for example- the Iraqi war in which the US is still involved in. A majority of citizens disagree with the war. Hell, nobody even wanted a war in the first place. The few soldiers that asked to be placed elsewhere- ie Afghanistan, where the real culprit that caused the war was- were treated with disdain. Sometimes there is just nothing one can do! But to blindly believe that these people put their minds on the backburner is simply too much. It's one of the greatest fallacies of history- you learn it and forget to factor in the life and emotions that the historical people must've felt at that time, and not without good reason. It's reprehensible to actually think that ALL the soldiers believed in what they were doing. I'm sure a lot of it was more motivated by fear of what would happen to them from the top of command.

[–] extremst 9 years ago

100 percent true. While I have no doubt at all that a ton of Germans were anti-Semites I do think a lot of them were worried about getting killed themselves or seeing their family members disappear. I would imagine by 1944 Hitler had lost the support of quite a few citizens. But to lash out and oppose even at that late date in the war would mean death by hanging..

[–] yusef-ghanima 9 years ago

the jews in palestine supported him, they are still applying his racist policies. hitler made great economic reform for germans, and stood against the injustice that happened against them after the first world war. but 15 assassination attempts are not few, you probably stood too long under the sun.

i mostly will not be able to answer your reply, since marissa mayer hacked my email, no notification

[–] davidmrenton 9 years ago

i think you mean the muslims in palestine supported hitler, which to a great extent they and the arab world did.Just google Arab support for Hitler, quite shocking.

[–] fnj2002 9 years ago

Nor are they apologetic to this day. They remain just as rabid.

[–] PeterMarkoff 9 years ago

It's movie about plotters so of course majority of characters will be against Hitler, but I didn't get impression they would try to manipulate viewers to believe that most of the Germans were after Hitler.

And your logic that if majority of people would be against dictator they would not last is wrong, it's not like people are given options under such circumstances, look at NoKo, people completely brainwashed and starving and for sure if they knew there is other option they would prefer normal government, but what you can do if you are starving while soldiers are fed and have weapons which can easily kill 10 people around you because you don't have weapons.

The best - Fight Club, American Beauty & Falling Down.

[–] ecvz 9 years ago

I'm guessing there were a lot of Germans who disliked Hitler, but there were only a handful who had the balls to stand up to him. Any dissenters were immediately executed. Even if they suspected you of being a dissenter they would arrest you and then execute you, no questions asked. That's what it's like living in a facist society. People are terrified. They have to put on a facade of acting loyal.

It's like North Korea today: do you think anyone actually enjoys living there? No. But they're f__cking terrified, so they act like they agree with their totalitarian government so they don't get sent to a prison camp.

[–] itz_theo 9 years ago

In the movie, Henning von Tresckow says to von Stauffenberg that"God promised Abraham that he would not destroy Sodom if he could find ten righteous men... I have a feeling that for Germany it may come down to one."

This shows that there may not be many who where against hitler but still a few.

[–] ecvz 9 years ago

That's not what Tresckow actually said though. They were quoting his last words there, but it was slightly modified for dramatic effect.

The whole world will vilify us now, but I am still totally convinced that we did the right thing. Hitler is the archenemy not only of Germany but of the world. When, in few hours' time, I go before God to account for what I have done and left undone, I know I will be able to justify what I did in the struggle against Hitler. God promised Abraham that He would not destroy Sodom if only ten righteous men could be found in the city, and so I hope for our sake God will not destroy Germany. No one among us can complain about dying, for whoever joined our ranks put on the shirt of Nessus. A man's moral worth is established only at the point where he is ready to give his life in defense of his convictions.

[–] itz_theo 9 years ago

Thanks for that. It was nice to read.

[–] GattiPL 8 years ago

Completely agree with OP.... And nothing like being born in an established N. Korea lol

[–] ZoneFighter 8 years ago

A few? This only one of 35 attempts to assassinate Hitler, by Germans.

And after this attempt failed the SS rounded up over 7000 people they thought might be traitors. Nearly 5,000 were executed.