the end


does he comes to a better or worse place in the end. I didn't relly get that. Is it ment to
be different levels of hell ?

I like the actress that plays the lover. Has she acted in any other movies?

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As only an observer, I think this movie is stunning in its portrayal of a world that exists between our own (in terms of its motivations) and that of a hell or purgatory (most likely the former). What to me happens at the end of this film is a purgatory of sorts, a stagnant frozen-ness that will certainly leave our friend in a limbo.

I'm not sure about different levels of hell, but where he is does seem to be a hell (a world filled with sensual-less experiences and the monotony that is so well portrayed). Death only results in a return, but not as a new beginning (cause that would be a nice thing of sorts), but continually he must return to the 9-5 that is his hell (and possibly everyone elses, or are those characters created for him only in 'his' hell... I think not, I think each person seems to have their fatal-damnable flaw in the film). I personally find Andreas' role specifically identifiable and assuming his flaw is suicide (not appreciating the beauty in the world) his quest to find the singing saw and taste the wonder on the other side of the wall is a beautiful message to the sad world we live in today.

Beautiful film.

Would love to talk about it if anyone wants to: AIM - Jmburnha

:-)

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I guess its up to the viewer to decide. But I doubt I would have been glad to be in a blizzard storm forever.

"Come quietly or there will be......... Trubl." - Robocop

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I took it as he was in heaven throughout the film. The girlfriends not carry about other girls, womaning letting the man choose everything, never getting drunk, not being able to die, a job where you do nothing, etc.

The hole in the wall, I took as temptation (aka the snake and the apple)


The ending on the other hand I figured was hell. like the saying goes "it's cold as hell"

Ultimately I think the film is trying to get the point across that one man's heaven is another man's hell!

Just my opinion.

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to me, the room with the cake and children's laughter as opposed to the rest of the city is kind of like jacques tati's cafe and old part of town in the movie mon oncle, as opposed to the hyper-modern office etc., in which you can hear the sounds of accordion music through the phone (although this guy is way more sympathetic and the story so much more immediate and intense, although tati is da bomb)... old, simple ways of life (the old people stooping to hear the music and smell the smells) as opposed to technology and efficiency... the young(er) people in this movie weren't crouching down to smell the smells, because they probably always lived in this lifeless state (or got used to it/pressured)... anyway... i don't know what i'm trying to say. and since this thread is called "the end," i'll end by saying i don't know what to make of the end, but i guess that's ok

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Completely agreed...

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from a cold place where everyone are cold (the city) he went to cold place (in the end), from cold to cold

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There's no way the city was supposed to be heaven. Nothing had any taste, nobody really loved anybody, everything joyful was sucked out of life. It wasn't particularly bad, but it was devoid of any real happiness. If you buy the metaphysical setting, it could be purgatory, but it may not have been anything to do with an afterlife at all.

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I thought he went to heaven (the town) also, but one thing puzzles me... given he died by committing suicide, wouldn't this preclude him from entering heaven (according to believers-in-heaven)? Just saw this movie at an international film festival in New Zealand - it was the one film I saw that really made me think! Great stuff.

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I think the suicide we see at the begining actualy takes place in the town,later after reaching there,after splitting up with the girls...I don`t think it was the normal real world...I`m not really sure he was even dead to start with...

why not a different world,level,dimension...why not a life that almost all consider normal and natural,withour questioning and wishing for something...a world of ignorance,with people that do not know how to be different,because they think that is the normal way...

A person starts living when he can live outside himself..
Einstein

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Not heaven nor hell in any way: those of you who suppose it's heaven are already like those robotic-souled "angels" enjoying living in that City, those who think it's hell are from the room with a pie, anyway this film is hardly understood by non-Europeans because of differences in the ways of life. The City is the present real life of a European city. That's the message. Whether it should be understood as a kind of "life beyond" or not, it's up to the viewer. The final sequence is a key to understanding the whole concept of the film: we see that the City robots continue to kiss, smile and enjoy their existence. Yes, even here in Russia is nearly like that: the most common entertainment of an average city being is to rearrange their empty-walled homes, to discuss with friends of how to rearrage their empty-walled homes, to watch TV and to *beep*. Of course they find it unnecessary and troublesome to have children. The triumph of pure hedonism. Of course, may be I exaggerate a bit but you know, many of us live the very same lives. But those of us who born in the old houses, enjoyed the undescribable smell of a village kitchen and had dozen of brothers and sisters would find such life terrifying. So does the protagonist and the man worshipping the crack in the wall, only that man is a coward but Andreas is not: he decides to leave the City into the unknown, seeking for his chance for another world. In the end he's been thrown into the blizzard probably symbolising a harsh life without artificial comfort but, to tell you the truth, I'd absolutely choose the blizzard. I would rate it 10/10 but given 6/10 because of the unnecessary realism of the gory scenes and the director's too strict view at the problem. The recently-late Master Bergman would probably put in it much more thoughts to think about.

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The city is definitely suppose to represent heaven- think about it... after Andreas, you only see old people getting off the bus(first time it's an old man, then second time as he is being dragged back onto the bus, an elderly woman is getting off the other side).

The film in itself is trying to make a pseudo-existentialist point: heaven isn't really that much better than your terrestrial existence on Earth, therefore you should try to enjoy all those moments of conflict, strife, and emotion in life because that is what defines being "alive".

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Why is everyone so wrong? The town does not represent Heaven. Isn't "good" in the definition of what we call heaven? This town was not "good". The best that it had to offer was the interior decorating.

I don't believe in a christian heaven, but I guess my definition of heaven is a good, rewarding place to go after you die for those who deserve a good afterlife in the eyes of a christian god. This town was not good or rewarding.

Someone even said this town was heaven because you get to get laid as often as you'd like. Wake up! Is that your idea of heaven? It meant nothing and there was no passion! I think everyone needs more pain in their lives to awaken themselves to the truth.

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I think everybody's right, the City is:
- a real-life city (European or not, i don't think it's important) which claims itself to be
- Heaven (and apparently it is for some) but actually is
- Hell (for Andreas and few others)
:)

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I DONT think annyone has right, the citty is offcourse made up,, but You hawe right there, it`s not important.

it couldnt be heawen... or hell, because it dont seem like religion does even exist in this world... oh whait, maybe thats whyyyy....

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I don't claim to fully understand the film. I believe he's obviously in some sort of purgatory.

I agree with some of the arguments being made for him being in heaven. However, in my mind heaven by any religions deffinition MUST include true love. How could it not? Additionally, how could there not be any children in heaven and why would he feel pain?

It seems more likely that he's in some sort of hell. Life seems normal enough. People go to movies, the bar, they have sex, ect. However, everything is devoid of any real passion, enjoyment or emotions. What could be worse than reliving your old life void of any real substance. That being said, if it was hell you'd think he'd be forced to stay there forever. Does that mean he was entering a new level of hell at the end... I have no idea, in fact I've just confused myself further.

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I seem to be the first to point out that, while we see Andreas having sex, there's no indication that anyone has an orgasm--if you think about it, it would be extremely incongruous with everything else in the place if you could achieve an orgasm during sex, but food didn't taste good and alcohol didn't get you drunk.

So the people that are thinking "Wow, he can have sex whenever he wants! That's AWESOME!!!" Are probably missing the point of the movie...

One thing I get out of it is that you could see it as a critique/satire of the Judeo-Christian idea of heaven as defined in the book(s) of Genesis and/or Revelation, and also a way of making people question the idea of what "heaven" is supposed to be and what they expect it to be or what they want it to be.

I do think the city could be seen as being "supposed to represent heaven" because, in the Bible, people started off in the Garden of Eden in a kind of blissfully ignorant state, and then were kicked out after they became aware of the division between Good and Evil; not because they had disobeyed, but because God was afraid that Adam would then eat the fruit of the Tree of Life and become immortal like God (if you don't believe me, look up Genesis 3:22). Then, in Revelation, it says that those chosen to go to heaven will contentedly sing God's praises for all eternity. Eating the forbidden fruit made Adam into a bothersome man...

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I first saw this at a film festival here in NZ last year and only this week found it to rent and watched it again...more closely...at home. I too have lived my own life and recoil in dread at the blandness of the 'consensus reality of the city'...this might have ended with him entering the sunny kitchen [which looked Italian]...but rather Andreas was snatched. Denied that form of freedom and instead of the warm sunny Italian kitchen is released into a blizzard...maybe to perish...but at least to feel.

I adore this film and will now try to find it on DVD so I may treat and inspire myself from time to time.

Thanks you for your insightful comments.

Ron

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is released into a blizzard...maybe to perish...but at least to feel.

No one seems to be suggesting this, so here's my two cents' worth. I agree with Oyvay's thought above.

What struck me about the scene where Andreas finds and eats the pastry through the hole was that it seemed so much like man (or woman) eating forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden. And Eden was bland and monotonous and too safe - and had no children - and humans wanted more than it could offer/desire arose, something the people in the city in this film don't seem to have (hence Andreas, confused, continually asking the blonde girl "But what do you want?").

And then what happened when Adam and Eve didn't want the bland but safe Eden? They were cast out. As Oyvey says, to perish but at least to feel, ie into something like a freezing, lonely world.

But the irony is that the world he glimpsed through the hole is the one he wants over the city/Eden, as it's much more stimulating, albeit much less "safe". But he can't have that, so he gets the freezing blizzard. I'd like to think that eventually he'd find what he's looking for.

Also, we don't know anything about Andreas before the bus arrived either, just as Adam and Eve were 'just created'. However, the fact that he remembers children and the taste of things indicates he once was living in the world he glimpsed. Perhaps the film's creator imagines the afterlife as resembling Eden?

Just my thoughts. Basically, I think it's a modern take on the Eden story, with the twist that this is the afterlife. But maybe I'm reading too much into it. Particularly the no children aspect. :-)

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Uhm, I personally don't think there's any kind of heaven/hell thing in there. But that's the great thing about theses multi-layered, not-fully-explained works, they offer many interpretations, and all might be 'right'.

Well, this guy was a threat, he pointed at some fundamentally lacking things, and some people began smelling the cake and hearing the underground music, but they didn't want to be reminded about those things, and had to put the "Confuser" in the cold. That's - in my mother language - a phrase much used, to be "put out into the cold". It's like when you have experienced something bad but nobody helps you, you "feel put into the cold". That's a word-for-word-translation. As the movie is very symbolical, I stopped thinking about what place he ended up in. What happened before was essential. Not knowing what place this blizzard-area was only adds to the dream/nightmare-like experience/atmosphere. I think it's all very tight, the beginning and the end. Like a great picture within a logical-in-itself frame.



"D-E-S-T-R-O-Y : E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G"

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The truly lovely thing about the ending is that we really just assume we see where he has been dropped. We see him covered in what we assume is frost and we get the tiniest glimpse of the place through the banging door of the compartment he has just left. In fact, we know NOTHING about it, unlike other examples in which we have broken the fourth wall to see things even Andreas doesn't see: he never actually SEES the kitchen from which he steals the bread--only we do; he doesn't see the new man in Anne Britt's life--only we do.

In contrast, we really have no idea what he sees, where he goes or what he does when he leaves the bus. Like many other hints and clues in the movie, we are left to interpret it as we decide. I think just as many people see this as a commentary on modernism as believe it to be about heaven or hell. In spite of being told it was about heaven and hell, I never once saw that at all! I couldn't force it to be about heaven and hell (in my mind) if I tried!

I do like that the ending parallels the beginning in so many ways--as another poster or two pointed out, we don't know where he came from or what caused him to be so dirty and disheveled at the beginning. And we don't know where he will go in the end. The simple fact that he has been able to get out should be hopeful.

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"My take on the ending is that in the world he was trying to escape from was a place that restricted a person's choices, beliefs and emotions. This sterile and closeted world repesented a void for the mind. The blizzard at the end (for me anyway) symbolised the chaos and intricacies of the human mind. "

I agree with the first part of this, I think he was a depressed man who simply couldn't become enthused with a lot of what was on offer in the world and yearned for something more than boring conversation, superficial relationships and meaningless work as symbolized by his hunt for the singing saw. The blizzard at the end I just took to mean the loneliness he would ultimately feel not finding others that shared his dissatisfaction and wanted to make the same changes - he is cursed by the complacency of others in forming a society he doesn't feel a part of.

Whatever, a beautiful, funny and affecting film.

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"Never getting drunk, not being able to die, a job where you do nothing" all sound like criteria for your idea of "heaven"? Really? An eternity of sensation-less, monotonous, emotionless nothingness sounds like heaven to you?

Girlfriends not caring about other girls and letting the man choose everything...well...I guess that would be cool if your ideal woman is a mindless sex object.

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Not to parse theology here but I pity those who thought that sterile, gray as Sheffield city, where all sex is missionary and all relations rate a five at best on a scale of one to ten, is heaven. At the same time, it's clearly not hell: it's got your usual corporate, well, bourgeois perks: pretty, well dressed if affectless women, copious wine, snazzy car, nice crib and, oh yeah, badminton games. Hell, if you're wondering, is probably the wind and ice landscape the bus drops Andreas in at the end. Heaven, on the other hand, is what's on the other side of the crack in the basement wall, that quaint to the point of cliché, music filled, warm country kitchen, where freshly baked crumb cake sits on the counter, beyond whose front door, presumably in a sunlit garden, you can hear children playing. I'm not always fond of kids but it's obvious to me that's the film's version of paradise. I do like country kitchens basked in summer light. What's the city then? Something like purgatory, where Andreas is sent because, by committing suicide at the film's start, he has refused the gift of life as we know it. He is then punished once again and more harshly because, as an ingrate and a bothersome man, he dares to question the apparent leniency of his sentence. What gall! What's wrong with the missionary position and a partner who seems as bored as death? Tut-tut: bad Andreas. Great little film.

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I see that a lot of people think that Andreas commits suicide in the beginning of the film and that's why he's sent to this cold and emotionless city, therefore making the connection with the heaven, hell, purgatory concept.

Andreas didn't commit suicide in the beginning of the film. That scene is the anticipation of what would happen later in the film, when he indeed tries to kill himself by jumping to the rail tracks. If you pay attention to the scene, the same couple is there kissing in a very disturbing and emotionless way, so that's not the "real world".
You might say "well ok then he must have suicidal tendencies so he clearly committed suicide and that's why he's there", well yes, maybe, but the thing is that there's just nothing in the film that explains clearly and without a doubt why he arrives to that city.

Personally I don't think this is a religious - "don't kill yourself cause you will go to hell" film. It's a satire. It's a vision of what "advanced" societies could become. The loss of humanity to become just a part of the machinery of a great, gray, concrete, "perfect" society. It's nothing groundbreaking or enlighting, it's an attempt, but it's a nice movie.

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This film reminded me a lot of an episode of the Twilight Zone from 1960. This one:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734544/

In that episode, a small-time hoodlum is killed and ends up in "heaven", even though he cannot understand what he did that was good to get him there. His "angel", played by the great Sebastian Cabot, meets his every wish. He can win at anything he puts his mind to, and Cabot even tells him that if he wants to lose once in a while, that Cabot can make that happen, too. Anything he wants, anything he dreams, any desire will be fulfilled.

After a week or so of this, he decides he doesn't like heaven much anymore, and wants to leave...

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The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Andreas is trapped between life and the afterlife - he's a ghost. The only difference between him and the other inhabitants of the city is that he's the only one who doesn't know that he's dead, and that's his tragedy.
All the other ghosts are trying to create a society which resembles life as best they can, given the circumstances - they have accepted their fate.
When Andreas breaks through with the jackhammer, he almost makes it into our world. Such actions are unheard of according to the ghost authorities or whatever :)
The other ghosts realise that Andreas doesn't want to be a part of their society, but they can't have him constantly poltergeisting his way into our world, so they put him in a place where he can't do any harm. The end.

The first lover (brunette): http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0054970/

The second lover (blonde): http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2277357/

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I think he ends up in the real world at the end, where he will experience amazing experiences like everything he was missing in the city(like the pie, and passionate relationships) but also pain and suffering like the snowstorm at the end. i haven't figured out if the ride in the bus in the luggage department was his birth, but that is the sense i made of it. i thought it was a really fun film to watch!and very funny too!

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So the luggage compartment in the bus could represent a "womb" from which Andreas is "born" at the end into the blizzard...never thought of that before!

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I have just seen the film on BBC 4 in the UK. A rare treat for us over in the UK for our networks to broadcast foreign cinema. I must say this is an excellent film which provokes the mind to no ends. For me it was a sort of crossbetween Huxley's Brave New World and the surreal 60s show The Prisoner.

My take on the ending is that in the world he was trying to escape from was a place that restricted a person's choices, beliefs and emotions. This sterile and closeted world repesented a void for the mind. The blizzard at the end (for me anyway) symbolised the chaos and intricacies of the human mind.

Films which are clever are rare and much treasured by me, can anyone reccomend anything similar to this?

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I've just watched it on BBC4 too.

I think that when people on this thread are talking about the film portraying 'heaven', they mean that the film is about the impossibility of heaven - heaven is not heaven because it's inevitably too easy, and therefore bland. As Beastify says, the Huxley 'Brave New World' idea.

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I find strange that those who say the city was heaven, purgatory or hell, do not take into account the absence of children. I prefer the interpretation of the European viewer that says it is an abstraction of any European city today.

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I know this thread's been dead for almost half a year but whatever...someone will read it again.

I'm understanding it as, the depot he's dropped off at represents the gate's of heaven and the city he's brought to is "purgatory". You'll notice nothing is really good OR bad in the city. There's no real emotion (he's the only one crying in the theater, the sex is "cold pizza" at best etc.) there's no real pain, injury or consequence (only what the mind perceives as pain, like when he cut off his finger.)

I think he was sent there because he was denied entrance into heaven but he lead a good life and therefore was spared from hell. But, upon trying to "break-in" to heaven (the hole in the wall leading to smells, colors, happiness etc.) he'd broken the law, if you will, of purgatory and was therefore sent to hell at the end.


"Looks like Torgo's been hittin' the thigh-master."

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Why does everyone think he killed himself in the beginning scene? This is clearly just a snippet of the scene after he finds out the blonde woman will only move in with him because he can offer her a bigger house. Remember? He breaks up with his "girlfriend" so he can pursue a relationship with the blonde girl, only to find out she is exactly the same. Depressed, he leaves, goes to the subway, see's that same couple from the beginning (because it's the same scene) and jumps in front of the train.

We have NO previous knowledge of him before we see him get off the bus in the beginning. We don't know what existed before that. I'm not saying that this whole heave/hell/purgatory thing can't be a legitimate interpretation, but you can't act like he kills himself in the beginning, because he clearly didn't. The story was presented to us a bit out of order is all.

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When I watched it, I thought the same way you did. But then I noticed there was a man in the background (NOT making out with a girl) that I didn't remember seeing in the opening scene. I didn't back check or anything but I'm pretty sure he wasn't there. What was that about then? And why was he sent to this place to begin with? I find it hard to believe that a movie this well-thought would just start us at some random bus trip to a fantasy land. And if that IS the case, why even bother showing that subway scene at the beginning. It serves no artistic purpose.


"Looks like Torgo's been hittin' the thigh-master."

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I agree. Obviously, it's not illogical to think that maybe Andreas committed suicide at the beginning of the film. The movie started out with that scene for a reason: to make you think.

Notice when he commits suicide in the first scene, it ends with a white light, and the camera pans upward to the scene where he gets off the bus. So, the filmmakers were clearly suggesting that this was his afterlife. But I think you are meant to wonder whether that is really the case or not.

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When I watched it, I thought the same way you did. But then I noticed there was a man in the background (NOT making out with a girl) that I didn't remember seeing in the opening scene.


That man is there in the background from the very beginning-- the scene is just repeated with more background detail later (cos you see Andreas walking all the way to the platform), so you're more likely to notice the man later on.

If you care enough to go around telling people you don't care... you obviously care.

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Similiar movies are rare. I'd say CYPHER is a bit similiar. It's different off course, but utopian and logical-in-itself with a great classic payoff at the very end, which might only be understood after the second viewing. It's more SciFi, but in the Gattaca-vein rather, than f.e. blade runner.

Also similiar would be CODE 46 but neither Cypher nor CODE46 are as bizarrely funny as BRYSOMME MANNEN. More utopian with a self-logic you must accept so that you can enjoy the whole movie and stories, and to understand even.

Besides, there's these graphic novel short stories from a guy called FOERSTER (from Brussel I guess) which are similiar sometimes, with a dosis "Twilight zone" thrown in though. Love it.

Books of this nature aren't that rare:

2 examples:

- Futurological congress (S. Lem) very satirical, HIGHLY original!
- Roadside picnic (Strugatzki) Grim, russian-style, philosophical and strangely mystical




"D-E-S-T-R-O-Y : E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G"

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[deleted]

I believe the city represents the garden of Eden. There are no children there, representing the "newborn" mankind as of lots of Adams and Eve living perfectly, not reproducing. Occationally a person in the garden of eden feels troublesome about the easiness/meaninglessness of everything following a linear path, by most people defined a boring meaningless life, thus decides to end his/her misery, by jumping off a roof (the man impaled on the fence in the beginning of the movie). How would you know what joy was if you´ve never experienced sadness/misery? Whenever this happens, god spawns/creates a new human being, arriving with the bus at the deserted place with the "Welcome"-banner.

Andreas is one of those people focusing more on what he would like to have, rather than being thankful for what he got, perfectly matching the title "The troublesome man". Everything is in general perfect, everyone get´s all the luxury most people would put on their top 10 wishlist however, Andreas is still "troubled"/not satisfied. He therefore grasps the opportunity to seek out the apple (the room in the end of the tunnel he´s digging), leading to him being a threat to the pleasant life of all the other inhabitants of Eden. In order to protect them, Andreas is taken to the bus and banished from Eden. Eventually he finds himself at a frozen thundra, by what most people would define as at least somewhat close to hell however, Andreas now finds himself freezing, thus experiencing a new part of the concept of living (what in my eyes is the fundamentalism of humanity): contradictions. He is reborn!

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That's what I like about this film, that it's open to so many different interpretations.
So here's another one. Maybe it depicts afterlife, not necessarily heaven or hell. And not only that, but a specific afterlife, one of many. Otherwise why are there no children? No teenagers? Why is everyone Norwegian?
Why is everybody white? Where does everyone else go?!

Maybe it's saying there are many many afterlifes, and this is the one for 20th century professional Norwegians who have possibly committed suicide but have definitely lost their taste for life. So they end up in the same kind of place, doing the same kind of job, eating flavourless food and having bland relationships.... because where they were emotionally when they died is where they end up for eternity.

So the place through the hole in the wall is another afterlife for a different kind of person. One who died still enjoying the tastes of life. Which is why our "hero" can't go there. Also, remember when he drives back to the place with the "Welcome" sign and follows the man with the car with a new passenger, and then the road stops and they vanish and he can't follow them? He can't go where they're going either.

And the end? Well, I don't know, but maybe that's nothingness. The interference you get on the TV when the aeriel stops working. Limbo. maybe there's only one afterlife designed especially for him and theres nowhere else for him to go.

Alternatively...

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