MovieChat Forums > Bon Cop, Bad Cop (2006) Discussion > French not taught properly in English-sp...

French not taught properly in English-speaking provinces???

posted 17 years ago by suszkoj
69 replies | jump to latest

I'll be quick. I'm in Gr. 10, I live in Toronto and I've taken a French class everyday for the past nine years. ANd what can I, or the rest of the English teenagers, show for it? Nothing. Not a single person (I know) who has come to school with me can speak fluent or even broken French. Personally, I am really pissed off about this.

I believe in the system and I believe in what it tries to accomplish, but I can't help but think it has failed me and the majority of Anglophones. I believe that all citizens in Canada should strive to be bilingual, as most Quebecers seem to be; it's only fair and, moreover, it's only respectful.

I'll quickly go over with why I believe it has failed me and the rest of the people I know. I don't believe it's for a lack of effort; I and many people I know have tried but failed. I personally believe the largest problem is a lack of qualified teachers. In my highschool year of French, my teacher could only speak Polish and French. Very little English. Half of the time, it was impossible to understand him. Before that, seven of my years in elementary school were spent with teachers who would just sit us down and make us memorize verb conjugations over and over again, only to forget them in the summer. After I left elementary school, I learned that my previous teachers did not even study French in university; they studied history and english literature, respectively. However, in my Gr. 7 year, I had a teacher who had studied French in university, how to teach it and who, moreover, was from Quebec. By the end of the year, she had the entire class reading simple novels in French. Unfortunately, the next two years of my french career were with crappy teachers and I soon forgot everything I had learned in Gr. 7.

There are other teenagers who are more gifted in languages than myself and do better in the program, but the majority of us do not. The worst part is is that I feel like francopones might interpret our lack of French as disrepectful and alienating towards them. After all, Canada is bilingual and we should probably all strive to make it so. I think it's about time someone step-up and fix the system.

Hell, there's apparently a guy in California who can teach you fluent French in six weeks, the CIA can do it in four months so shouldn't nine years be enough for the rest of us? People say we don't learn it for a lack of effort, but many good students like myself who try hard at school can barely speak it.

Nine years should be enough to get someone fluent in a language and if the government is going to make it mandatory, they might as well do it right. I'm aware the French immersion scools are often much more sucessful in teaching French, but the schools are limited in number and often impact students grades in history and geography negatively. STill, I think 45 minutes a day for 2/3 of the year for nine years should be adequate to get even the worst of students moderately fluent in French.

Oh and sorry for being off-topic, this movie jsut got me thinking about bilingualism and why I (and many others who have been learning it for years) can't speak French.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] disconinja 17 years ago

I agree. I, too, grew up in Ontario and took French throughout elementary and high school. I enjoyed French and wanted to learn it. Actually, I was pretty good at it, but I think the worst thing is lack of practice. When you don't have the oppurtunity to practice a language, you begin to forget it. I can barely speak French now (although I can understand a lot of it just fine) and that's a shame. I'd like to try learning again, maybe I'll take a course. I agree that we should try to be bilingual!

[–] cantinaqueen 17 years ago

Absolutley. I live in New Brunswick, which is the only officially bilingual province in Canada, and in a government town where all the jobs require bilingualism, and yet the kids I know who are in the public school system hardly speak any French at all. Even those in immersion. It's ridiculous. People complain that being a bilingual country is stupid, but I don't think so - I think being a bilingual country is reflective of our history and our population, and that it's a good thing. I just think we just need to make more of an effort to teach our kids this stuff, and early - it gets harder as you get older. There are a lot of countries that have more than one official language, but do it a lot more smoothly than us.

[–] fantasticflaw 17 years ago

In BC, it is only mandatory to take French until grades 8 (or 9), I don't know for sure. I took it all the way to grade 12, and I still can't speak fluent French, I sure wish I could though.

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[–] fiosteve 17 years ago

Yeah, I couldn't speak fluent french after grade 12 when I moved to Québec. It took going to french college (where I knew the teachers wouldn't switch to English for just one anglo student in a class of 30+) to complete my goal of becoming bilingual. The first 6 weeks were the hardest, and when I learnt the most. I'm still learning, almost 14 years later, but rather than several words or phrases a day, it's like one once in a while...usually when learning about some new subject where I happen upon a word I wouldn't use elsewhere in common everyday speaking. :-)

[–] xtomatex 15 years ago

I dont know what you mean by official but I study in a french university here in Montreal and most people can speak english.

[–] LeTensai 17 years ago

Personally I dont find it really insulting. Here in Quebec english class are simply ridicoulous anyway, but still some primary school give some english but there is few and you got more or less 2 hour of it for five years of high school and for those that go to school longer 3 hour a week for 2 semester of cegep and even with that theres a lots of people that cant speak it anyway afther that ... I mean even afther I've done all those class with pretty good grade the best instructor are always movies and books. Another problem is the fact that most people learn to speak/write in english on internet and everyone know the quality that it used on msn or games is pretty low. People here have problem learning their own first language so when it come to learning a second one some tend to take their distance anyway you dont really need to be good to have decent grade in it.

The thing that could be insulting is that many people in a city like montreal cant even speak a decent french ( and I am not speaking about immigrant) I mean if even Quebeckers cant speak french...

Anyway poor language teaching is really a big problem everywhere and moreover if you cant pratice a language it sure that you cant remember everything that they told you for years of inactivity and I guess that it more rare for the rest of canada to have a conversation in french than for Quebeckers to have a conversation in english ( I know this sentence dont make that much sence gramattically... and I was one of the best in my english class ^^ come on I was having a 97% average in my 5th year of high school without even knowing my left and my right -.-)

[–] meggz3 17 years ago

I thought I knew nothing in french. Turned out I knew nothing about Quebec- French, I went there and was completely and entirely lost. In Paris, I did fine.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] queen-smartass 16 years ago

"I thought I knew nothing in french. Turned out I knew nothing about Quebec- French, I went there and was completely and entirely lost. In Paris, I did fine."

Be grateful; why anyone would WANT to speak pidgeon-French with that hideous Quebecois twang is beyond me.
I was fortunate enough to have a Parisienne woman teach high school French where I went to school and let me tell you, there were severe repurcussions for even the tiniest hint of a Quebecois accent OR slang in her class.

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[–] Lugus 15 years ago

There's nothing wrong with the Quebecois accent.

[–] skywalkr2 16 years ago

I think this is a common problem. I had five years of French in the US and was completely lost in Quebec. In Paris... just fine.

[–] xtomatex 15 years ago

That because you learn the *International french*, France, Belgium, Switzerland, etc. It is the one they use to translate english movie to french viewer.

Here in quebec, we use a *beep* load of *Quebecisme*, *derive from a english word* or *word that doesnt exist*.

Ive never been to Paris, but ive watch some movie from France and talk to some person from France here in Montreal and I have a hard time understanding what they mean. Same with them, so I understand how you can have a common problem understanding french from Montreal.

Just to be clear, french from Montreal is also different from french from other side of Quebec. Quebec is a huge province. Canada is a big country.

[–] oO-sANe-Oo 17 years ago

Outside of montreal, The english gets pretty bad !! we had english class trough out elementary school and High school. Most of my friends dont speak English at all. My grand mother made me watch sesame street when I was young and introduced me to english tv shows. After 9 years of english class and lots of TV, I decided to continue school only in english. took me a month and a couple of nights at the pubs with my english friends to get fluent, because I hardly had the chance to speak in english with anyone before!

One thing, I never thought it was disrespectful when an anglophone couldn't speak french (except when you ask for help in a store in Quebec), but I'm always impressed by those who do ! - French is complex, even for frenchies.

at least Its very nice to see how you care!!

E.L.

I saved Latin , what did you ever do? --Max Fisher

[–] skerz0 17 years ago

Indeed, the best way to learn a language is to go where it is spoken.

I am in Gr. 10 as well but an effective way of learning French is to watch French television. I watch TV5, specifically the Journal de France 2 at 6:30 PM EST.
Also, you need to read a lot: magazines and books do the trick.

Learning French in English territory is a bit more difficult, but it can be done. Though you might not understand French slang or idioms, you will become a proficient Francophone.

[–] gregbarnes 8 years ago

I used to listen to Radio France Internationale on the radio in the early mornings until they switched completely over to BBC. I thought by listening it would improve my verbal comprehension skills, but it didn't. They simply spoke too fast and I could only pick up a word or two here and there. I occasionally listen to an AM station (860 AM out of Montreal) and I understand things a little better but not much.

[–] xtomatex 15 years ago

Btw, yes it is VERY disrepectful that anglophone in Montreal CANT speak english. There is a lot of district in Montreal where people simply cant talk to you in french, whatever if it's a supermarket, a restaurant or anything else. For god sake, ive been to OTTAWA (Kanata) for a hockey game and people are almost all fully bilingue, so wtf ?

My mom is working in st-therese in a bank, and 100% of the jewish want to be served in ENGLISH. That a travesty, not to mention that this religion is CLOSED from the world (in the province of quebec, I dunno about other province or country).

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] fiosteve 17 years ago

My husband has a very simple solution for this problem. He says, every child should go to a completely bilingual school. You start kindergarten in the language that is NOT your mother tongue, do the whole year in that language, and then do half days in each language for the rest of your schooling. The immersion french system in provinces like BC, while it does not make "native speakers" out of kids who start off school speaking only english, does give them a fluency and comprehension far above any english school where french is taught "2-3 hours a week". My sister went to french immersion and was very bilingual up until about grade 8 when she chose to go to an english high school and forgot most of her french. If every single school in the entire country could give classes like this, all of KG in one language (the one you aren't strong in, or don't yet speak) and the rest half days of each, every single child would come out bilingual, pretty much. He says you COULD make exceptions for children with serious learning disabilities and perhaps even for children who come into Canada from another country, not speaking even 1 of Canada's official languages: in this case the child would be schooled in the language that is common to the area they are living in (French in Québec, english in most of the rest of the country) so they can survive in that culture easily enough. Besides which, they'd already have a 2nd language if say, they came from Germany, or Spain or wherever, and spoke that with parents at home.

[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

It's nice to see that some people are really willing to learn French. But you should all get out of your head the idea that every single Québécois is bilingual and that English is properly taught here. I didn't know whether my English teachers could really speak English until I got into Cégep. Even in Montréal, people can speak, but most of them make many grammatical mistakes and write it really badly. But at least, most people can speak.

I won't boast like some of my fellow Québécois by saying that my English is perfect while it's not, but I think it isn't bad nonetheless. To learn it, I had to kick my own ass, go to an English university, English countries, watch only my movies in English, and so on and so forth.

The main problem is that in most regions, you don't need to speak English. Some people grow up and die in the same 100% French-speaking region, without ever moving from there. They don't see why they should learn another language, and I guess I can see why they think that way.

We have a long way to go before Canada becomes really bilingual, sadly.

And it annoys me that so many people say they are speaking English. English is not easy people, it's hard. Maybe not as hard as French, but it's hard in its own right. There are many subtleties that many French speakers don't get. Most people learn English in the street or in movies, but they should REALLY learn it. English doesn't have as many rules as in French, but rules there are and learning them you should before you say that you speak English perfectly. Because right now, most people just repeat what they hear and don't even know how to write the words. A perrot can also repeat, but only a human can really learn the language. Just my opinion.

[–] canada_rules_74 17 years ago

Just to go on record here, the vast majority of English speaking people in Canada have no real desire to speak French. Most of the people I know and grew up with have never spoken or had the need to take French outside of what we were forced to take in school. We're an English speaking country that likes to pretend we're biligual just to kiss the frogs' butts.

French is close to completely useless in most of Canada for the need to be fluent in it. By all means, the way thigns are going, we should start to learn Chinese here. There's more of them that can't speak either English or French, so we might as well learn how to speak with them some way or other.

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[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

I don't know how it's possible to post messages that are that dumb... really.

"We're an English speaking country that likes to pretend we're biligual just to kiss the frogs' butts. "

I guess that should be enough to show that you don't know anything about anything.

[–] matt_gry 17 years ago

je ne sais pas, wat is the problem with you have you ever heard of quebec lots of people in quebec and other places in canada only speak french..

[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

... I didn't understand that, it doesn't make sense. Ce que tu as écrit en anglais n'a aucun sens.

[–] goewyn 17 years ago

ah, je pense qu'il veut dire: Tu as jamais entendu parler du Québec, il y a plein de monde qui parle francais ici et dans les autres province. I think he meant, have you ever heard anything about Québec, there's a lot of french here and in other provinces as well.

As for french not being taught properly. I think i'm not surprise. Being québecoise and speaking french by birth, I learned english at school. Boy oh boy! Sure I learned how to speak english, formal english mind you. The real english, the one on the street, I learned thanks to Will Smith in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air! :) I'm learning spanish in university and I'm learning how to formaly speak spanish...I spoke with a mexican the other day and he couldn't even understand a word I was saying. I think we learn the basis at school,we are given the tools to start learning, the real learning is to plunge head first into the language you want to learn; music, books, movies, come in Québec city and I tell you, you'll be speaking french in no time!

[–] vanderghast 17 years ago

Really? welcome to newsgroups. The message was probably:

w[h]at is the problem with you [?]
have you ever heard of quebec [?]
lots of people in quebec [,] and other places in canada [,] only speak french..

I appreciate the s to lot, as if it was like multiple islands. Quite poetic.

[–] goewyn 17 years ago

When you say frog's butt...do you mean the french? from France? If yes, you might consider taking up a book about your country for you seem to be lacking some information.

Come in Québec and see how useless french is here.

[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

Well, the English Canadians still call us the frogs. But they are square-heads, who cares... :P

[–] goewyn 17 years ago

lol...

Sais-tu pourquoi on nous (les francais comme les québecois) appelle frog? On m'a dit un jour que c'était parce que les francais mangeaient des cuisses de grenouilles!!! Aussi con que ca! Le pire c'est que j'en aie déja mangé alors...on peut bien m'appeler Frog, je réponds toujours...yeah? And proud of it.

Do you know why we (the french like the quebecers) are called Frog? I was told once that it was because the french ate frog's legs. As stupid as that! What's worst I used to eat some myself so...i can be called frog, iI always respond...Yeah? and proud of it.

I wonder why we call english people square head, do you know?
Je me demande pourquoi on appelle les anglais square head, sais-tu pourquoi?

lol...it is truly a bon cop bad cop message thread...instant translation!C'Est vraiment un tableau de message de bon cop bad cop...traduction instantané!

[–] QuenchMyDesire 17 years ago

You totally need to be immersed in the culture to be able to properly learn the language. I'm from Ontario and I've been learning french in school from grade 4 up until last May (second year university). My french was okay, but it wasn't exactly up to conversation level.

From the beginning of July to last week I was in Quebec doing the Explore Program (for those of you who don't know what it is, the Canadian government pays for all full time students to learn french or english at a university of your choice across Canada). I would say that I'm now able to have a normal conversation with a francophone person. Being in Quebec helped me with my french A LOT. If anyone is looking to learn french or english do this program.

I definitely think that everyone in the country should strive to be bilingual.

[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

Now you're talking my friend. :)

[–] flagship_chimaera 17 years ago

45 minutes a day is nowhere near enough to be able to learn French quickly. As an officer in the Canadian Forces I'm required to be bilingual and the classes you're in have you speaking French for 6 hours of the day, more if you want to. You learn best by doing and there's no way there's enough time for all the students in a high school French class to interact with the teacher and develop their grammar and vocabulary. Most of the stuff I learned was by tying to tell my teacher what I did on the weekend, not by doing worksheets. After 5 weeks I was surprised at how much I could understand and respond to in a conversation.

I remember thinking that French immersion in elementary school would really suck because it would be so hard to learn even basic stuff if it was in French. Now I wish I had taken that opportunity when my mind was still young and could do a better job at absorbing information.

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[–] elmo4000 17 years ago

French Immersion! by gr 8 ur practically fluent! The only problem is even though you know so much those damn quebecois speak so FAST. I could understand the movie perfectly(almost) the third time round

[–] ftremblay 17 years ago

It's not only that we speak fast but the movie contains much slang and many contractions. Like replacing "Je" by "m'". You gotta know it to understand! Patrick Huard's Character really has a bad French. The bad guy has a better French than him, that's saying much!

[–] hardcore_ninja 17 years ago

took french for 4 years and all i can say is "je suis un pizza avec du fromage" i dont ever know if thats right

[–] vanderghast 17 years ago

Unless you ARE a pizza, with cheese, you told something wrong :-)