It's funny white people don't mind being portrayed as - Pride (2007) Discussion

[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"Seriously, there have only been like three movies made recently that follow this theme, and already many white people are saying they're sick of it. I wonder why? Does it bring out some kind of personal guilt?"
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No, it's because white people are weary of having the entirety of their existences defined by a subset of racist predecessors, who nearly all of us neither ignore the history of or endorse. But yet, nearly every "black" film that comes out gives the appearance that black people view white people as nothing more than racist oppressors who focused all their time on keeping them down, essentially ignoring all other positive aspects that go into the "white" existence. It's really a complaint about the myopic and stereotyped views of white people that black people, through entertainment media, appear to hold about caucasians. People such as I are here to tell you that such views are hypocritical, if you yourself are in ardent opposition to bigotry and racism. People get up in arms not because they're threatened by the history of some white people, but rather because people like you are totally oblivious to their own hypocrisies.

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[–] chunkreloaded 17 years ago

What people don't like, is the constant racializing of every sport, business, and social issue. Nobody minds movies about the underdog winning...but when you throw race into the picture and paint one side as the demons EVERY TIME, it get's rather tiring.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"How would you feel about tons movies that depicted whites as heros and blacks as crimminals and baby mamas?"
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If that were actually case, then I'd be sympathetic to complaints about it. But it's not the case, not by a long shot, so your retort is completely irrelevant.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Everytime?? Dont you think that is a bit of an over exaggeration? Glory Road, Remember the Titans; these movies did have sympathetic white people, too, you know"

Exactly, they talk about blacks ignoring the positive aspects of whites, but they ignore the positive white characters in these movies. And remember the titans had several. I haven't seen pride yet, but I bet it has some too.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"Glory Road, Remember the Titans; these movies did have sympathetic white people, too, you know...not every white person was depicted as evil."

Well, jadenite, I think you need to watch Remember the Titans again because you seem to have missed that MOST of the black characters are NOT portrayed as racists whereas MOST of the white characters ARE portrayed as racists. One of the themes of the movie is how some of the white characters abandon their racism towards blacks.

THERE'S NO DENYING THAT IN REMEMBER THE TITANS THERE WERE MORE WHITE RACIST CHARACTERS THAN BLACK RACIST CHARACTERS.

I've only seen the previews for Pride and an interview with Bernie Mac, but it certainly appears as though we again have a movie where most white characters are portrayed as racists and very few black characters (if any) are portrayed as racists.

There is a double standard in Hollywood when it comes to racism. It's considered okay for blacks characters (like Bernie Mac's character) to malign white characters but it's NOT okay if the reverse occurs.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Well, jadenite, I think you need to watch Remember the Titans again because you seem to have missed that MOST of the black characters are NOT portrayed as racists whereas MOST of the white characters ARE portrayed as racists. One of the themes of the movie is how some of the white characters abandon their racism towards blacks."

Maybe that's how it went in real life. Do you want them to put in some mock racist blacks to make whites feel better?

"There is a double standard in Hollywood when it comes to racism. It's considered okay for blacks characters (like Bernie Mac's character) to malign white characters but it's NOT okay if the reverse occurs."

Maybe because of the history of racism against blacks in america??? You did hear about that little event, lasted 300 years.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

So what you're saying, quinn_larkins, is that racism against blacks has been an injustice for centuries but that racism against whites is okay because it's payback? Interesting hypothesis. I guess that you believe that two wrongs make a right?

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Quinn larkins didn't say that at all and you know it. You are twisting her words on purpose to fit your agenda."

Thank you independentthinker, but I'm a him BTW.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

I asked why is it considered okay for a character like Bernie Mac's to malign white characters and yet it's unacceptable when the reverse occurs. You responded: "Maybe because of the history of racism against blacks in america??? You did hear about that little event, lasted 300 years"

Your response seems to be justifying payback, so please clarify what exactly you meant in the above quote.

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[–] jenovaii 17 years ago

Stop with the racist crap, you dumbasses.

It's hard enough being human.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Your response seems to be justifying payback, so please clarify what exactly you meant in the above quote."

It's not payback. Racial/ethinic subjects are more sensitive when they involve just about any group besides whites in general. Because no one person or group has ever been oppressed or persecuted for being white.

Example, if you make jokes about a guy for being white, he won't get that offended. If you make jokes about that same person for being Jewish or Polish, he may take offense to that because of the history of Jews and Polish immigrants being discriminated against.

And when it comes to blacks, we've faced more oppression and discrimination than any other group in american history, so yes race is much more sensitive when dealing with blacks.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"Example, if you make jokes about a guy for being white, he won't get that offended."

You couldn't be more wrong! Most of the white people that I know would be very offended. It has nothing to do with past experiences. Racism is fundamentally offensive.

You're misunderstanding of the white community may explain why you're having such a hard time appreciating the uproar expressed by white people posting comments about this movie. You seem to think that people are objecting to the fact that the black team wins. Almost every post that I've read, is objecting to the NEGATIVE PORTRAYAL OF THE WHITE CHARACTERS. It has nothing to do with winning or losing.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"You couldn't be more wrong! Most of the white people that I know would be very offended. It has nothing to do with past experiences. Racism is fundamentally offensive."

I've seen many comedy shows on tv and I've even been to comedy shows where white and black comedians make jokes about white people, and none of the white people I saw got offended. So I think it's just you and the people you know.

"You're misunderstanding of the white community may explain why you're having such a hard time appreciating the uproar expressed by white people posting comments about this movie."

You're right. How could I have forgotten that the white community has been oppressed for so long in this country, you've had to over come so many obstacles of racism to get to where you are. It must be painful for you to be reminded of that dreadful history of cruelty and racism.

By the way, what race of people oppressed whites in this country??? Oh that's right, nobody.

"You seem to think that people are objecting to the fact that the black team wins. Almost every post that I've read, is objecting to the NEGATIVE PORTRAYAL OF THE WHITE CHARACTERS. It has nothing to do with winning or losing."

First off, did you see this movie yet? No. Then how do you know how the white characters are portrayed??

Second, you don't see black people complain everytime a black character is portrayed negatively, so what's all of the crying about?

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"So what you're saying, quinn_larkins, is that racism against blacks has been an injustice for centuries but that racism against whites is okay because it's payback? Interesting hypothesis. I guess that you believe that two wrongs make a right?"
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Nah. He just likes to live under the delusion that blacks by nature are morally superior, and violent or racist only because of circumstance and white oppression. Quinn just hates having his little bubble popped.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

It is always about making the whites feel better. When they beat the slaves the slaves had to cry out like it was pleasurable. "Do massa, do massa". They are the most predatory race on the planet but when it comes to blacks, they become super insecure. Like Simon Cowell says, every little white boy wants to be a black boy which is why Eminem made it so big, by capitalizing on this FACT.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"What people don't like, is the constant racializing of every sport, business, and social issue. Nobody minds movies about the underdog winning...but when you throw race into the picture and paint one side as the demons EVERY TIME, it get's rather tiring."

Again, three movies. Remember the titans, glory road, and now pride. All of them based on true stories. How is that constant?

You act as if the racial aspect was taken out, then it would be an ok movie.

But that would be ignoring the true history of the story.

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"You act as if the racial aspect was taken out, then it would be an ok movie.

But that would be ignoring the true history of the story."
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People pick and choose which stories they choose to tell. The choices can span a broad spectrum, or not. These choices are telling.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"People pick and choose which stories they choose to tell. The choices can span a broad spectrum, or not. These choices are telling."

A good story is a good story. If it involves drugs, volience, or racism, then those apects shouldn't be taken out of the story to make people feel better.

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[–] Vins_gurl18 17 years ago

What people don't like, is the constant racializing of every sport, business, and social issue. Nobody minds movies about the underdog winning...but when you throw race into the picture and paint one side as the demons EVERY TIME, it get's rather tiring

I would agree with you on some part, but I think most of you all are forgetting the fact that this movie is actually based on a TRUE story!!! Are you all disputing the fact that this type of treatment towards blacks by white people in the 1960's/1970's didn't take place??

And for those of you who haven't seen the movie, Terrence Howard's coach in the beginning of the movie (he was WHITE by the way) was actually portrayed in a very GOOD light (at least I felt). It was clear to see that he wasn't racist. So, the argument that this movie portrays "all white people as demons" is very false indeed.

Also, another thing...not all "black movies" talk about racism. But when you go back in history and mention black people...YES racism is a BIG part of the black American experience in this country. Why is that so hard to acknowledge? Why do so many people get angered about a movie that's simply showing the truth about how things were (and in some cases still are)?? Hmmmm....

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[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

First let's get something straight! NOT EVERYTHING IS MEANT TO BE RACIST! Sooo are ppl afraid of facts now??? Black ppl get movies put out about them every year saying how we're ghetto, incapable of speaking correct english, drug dealers, and so on and so forth, let alone in terrible movies; movies which usually aren't based on fact, but stereotypes. I hate those movies but I don't blame the white man for that (this is a whole other topic so anywho). Yet when a decent movies comes out and is based on a true story about the rasict times in America some ppl want to get mad! Y? It's history we can't change it, we can only learn from it and even today it seems many ppl haven't. Shame!

Now I will say that blacks have had their share of movies about ghetto teens put out. I'm pretty young so I can only name recent movies like Coach Carter, Freedom Writers & Friday Night Lights (to an extent). These movies portray minority teens as criminals with pretty much no future. I don't complain about those movies b/c they were based on true stories and I can't change that (they're also really good movies IMO). So it's not just white ppl that are targeted in movies such as these. The worst part about it is that we're so caught up in the movie (Pride, Freedom Writers, Coach Carter, Glory Road, etc.) itself and what it presents on the surface, that we forget to look deeper and see the real lesson in the movie. Then we come to the boards and argue about what that particular movie has just taught us was irrelevant. It's like we totally miss the concept.

Watch the movie, whether you love it or hate it, LEARN SOMETHING and stop complaining everything is not meant to be racist! These movies aren't made to lump a whole race together, or bring others down w/ the past. They're made to tell an inspirational story (usually about an instructor of some sort).

Unpredictable

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"No, it's because white people are weary of having the entirety of their existences defined by a subset of racist predecessors, who nearly all of us neither ignore the history of or endorse."

So how does a movie like pride or glory road define all of white people's existence, but movies like gangs of NY, goodfellas, and Donnie Brasco don't?

"But yet, nearly every "black" film that comes out gives the appearance that black people view white people as nothing more than racist oppressors who focused all their time on keeping them down, essentially ignoring all other positive aspects that go into the "white" existence. It's really a complaint about the myopic and stereotyped views of white people that black people, through entertainment media, appear to hold about caucasians."

Once again, there have only been three movies made recently that follow the theme of this one. Training day didn't make whites look like racist oppressors. Neither did hustle and flow, dream girls, or idlewild. Do you think that maybe you're exaggerating?

"People such as I are here to tell you that such views are hypocritical, if you yourself are in ardent opposition to bigotry and racism. People get up in arms not because they're threatened by the history of some white people, but rather because people like you are totally oblivious to their own hypocrisies."

This movie is based on true events. It's not a spike lee do the right thing kind of movie. It's about a black man who started a swim team in a black neigborhood, something that was unheard of at the time. And the kids were looked at differently and riddiculed because it was not seen as something blacks did.

You act as if this movie will be focused on the montgomery bus boycott, sit ins at white dinners, and blacks fighting for their right to vote. It's not. It's about a blacks doing something that wasn't common, creating a swim team.

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[–] jackson50-1 17 years ago

To be honest I agree with the general thought now that race is just a societal label and has no biological differences other than the ones we make. But it is asinine that people will say it is racist to suggest caucasians are naturally better at swimming than black people, but then those people will then go out and say that black people are better at basketball. Make up your mind already please.

I praise you because you are a loving God, whose very nature is love.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] dnicole80 17 years ago

I really think it's funny that people can't look at this movie as an inspirtational TRUE STORY that is only presenting on screen what happened in one man's life. Sure there are probably elements that were added to make the story more "Hollywood', but the truth is that this was sign of the times. The racism seen was indicative of the 60's and 70's...there's no getting around that.

Also, please note, that the people who greenlight these films are mostly White males, not a group of Black people who got together and said, "hey, let's stick it to the man!". Obviously, there are people who can see this is a story of pride, thus the name of the picture, and there's nothing wrong with cheering for the underdog whether they're Black, White or otherwise. I am a Black woman who loved "Rudy"...great story with a message of never give up on your dreams. That movie dealt with class issues as opposed to race, but the message was still the same...with the vast amount of violence, misogeny and homophobia in this society often depicted in films, can't we just sometimes relish in these feel good movies without resorting to tearing them down??

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[–] magemaximus 17 years ago

Ima come out and say why this movie was rated poorly.

1) Shows black people beating white people

2) Shows white people being being evil and racist towards blacks

3) It's a black movie

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Of course we mind. And we are taking note at how Blacks are so conspicuously NOT portrayed in those roles due to Political Correctness."

What about Friday Night Lights? The villianous team at the end was an all black team that played dirty.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Maybe, because we're sick of hearing about how inherently racist and evil all white people are from SOME racist black people."

So because there are some racist black people out there, you get mad when ever a movie is made that accurately portrays how whites treated blacks in the past? That doesn't make sense.

"Maybe because we hate getting blamed for stuff that was done before we were even born."

I don't know who blamed you for things in the past, but if you know you weren't born yet than you know you had nothing to do with it personally. But if you have an attitude of "I wasn't born yet, but I don't care what happened to blacks" then you could come off as a racist anyway in the eyes of some blacks.

"Maybe, because we get sick of people throwing glass bottles at us when we have to walk through the black projects, and then hear about how we're the only ones who are ever racist."

Why would you have to walk through a black housing project? I grew up in the an urban city with four major housing projects, one in the north, south, east and west. I had friends and family in the west and north projects, and I never walked through the ones in the south and east. Because I didn't know anybody there and they were dangerous.

You may not believe this, but a dangerous black neighborhood can be just as dangerous for a black person as anyone else. The only difference is that you stand out more if you're white.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"Hell, you come off as racist in the eyes of some blacks just because you're white. And yes, terrible things have happened because of anti-black racism, but I did not do them. And while I feel bad for those affected negatively by them I should not and do not feel guilty. I didn't do it. I didn't have a chance to stop the acts of anti-black racism. I'm no more responsible for stuff like slavery than the descendants of those enslaved. I had no control over these actions. Why should people who weren't even victims of these horrible acts hold me responsible when I did not commit them. Because I'm white? That's racism at its worst."
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Crack open your wallet and fork over some reparations, honkey.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Hell, you come off as racist in the eyes of some blacks just because you're white."

According to many of today's young whites, you come off as racist just because you're black. If you defend blacks from stereotypes they call you racist. If you're white and you do it, they say it's self hatred.

"Why should people who weren't even victims of these horrible acts hold me responsible when I did not commit them. Because I'm white? That's racism at its worst."

No, racism at it's worse was slavery and jim crow days. While I understand you may come across predjudice, you really can't compare that to the racism blacks have faced in the past. No one is going to deny you a job just because you're white. No one is going to say you can't move to a middle class neighborhood or attend a certain school because you're white.

Many whites in this country can go through their lives rarely having to go through a black neighborhood, definitely not a poor black neighborhood. So I doubt the prejudice that you do come across is on a daily basis. So really you're it seems like you're trying to make a small issue into a big issue just so you can say you face the same problems as black, when you really don't.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"But I have known people who were beaten beyond recognition for being white in a black neighborhood. I have known people who were raped in prison for being white. I think those f ucking count as racism. These occurrences may not be as widespread as violent anti-black racism used to be in America, but that doesn't change the fact that violent anti-white racsim is still a problem."

There have always been cultural problems in america, but only blacks have ever been singled out to have actual laws created to keep blacks oppressed.

"And when I ask why these things happen, I'm told its because of what whites (who were not me) did to blacks (who were not them) during an era we never lived in. That's pretty f ucking stupid."

I agree, that is stupid.

But it's also stupid to say, the irish immigrants over came discrimination, why can't blacks? That's pretty *beep* stupid.

"Oh, and you're right. That isn't racism at it's worst. But I don't know whether slavery is either. Genocide might be worse."

I agree, but genocide has never happened in america, so slavery would have to be the worst example of racism in american history.

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[–] pujolshrking 17 years ago

"While I understand you may come across predjudice, you really can't compare that to the racism blacks have faced in the past."

That is exactly the problem, blacks believe that they are owed something because of racism blacks faced in the past. That generation installed it into their youth which is the racism that blacks have today. They start to believe the lie that they should go through life believing they are owed something. Making them lazy and making them believe that they don't have to do as much as whites. They believe that through welfare the whites are merely starting to give back to them. THAT is why they are poor, because they choose to be.

"No one is going to deny you a job just because you're white. No one is going to say you can't move to a middle class neighborhood or attend a certain school because you're white."

Actually there are colleges that are very prominently black. And you have the same chance or probably even better at being denied a job if the man in charge is black. And you can't be denied ownership of a house in a certain area, but its your choice and this problem faces both races.

So yes whites and blacks are both exposed to racism and a main reason that blacks have more problems is because they choose to.

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[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

"That is exactly the problem, blacks believe that they are owed something because of racism blacks faced in the past. That generation installed it into their youth which is the racism that blacks have today. They start to believe the lie that they should go through life believing they are owed something. Making them lazy and making them believe that they don't have to do as much as whites. They believe that through welfare the whites are merely starting to give back to them. THAT is why they are poor, because they choose to be. "

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I don't believe I'm owed anything by anyone. That's BS and I know other black ppl who think the same way I do. Not all of us feel like we're owed anything. It does irritate me however when I see white ppl who like to deny what has happened or act like racism never has and still doesn't exist.

Listen to yourself who in their right mind wants to be poor. living on welfare, using food stamps, and so on. Do u know any1 personally that thinks like this???

Let us not forget that white ppl are just as guilty of blaming black as blacks r @ blaming whites. I think another poster said it best. It'a always those C+ average, 1000 SAT score having, white kids who use affirmitive action as their reasoning for not getting into the skool of their choice. Or maybe it's the lazy, no degree having ones that use "african american handouts" as their excuse for not getting a job. Sure u can say well smart White kids get ripped of for a quality education but so do black kids. Racism, poverty, ignorance, laziness, etc. COME IN ALL RACES and not as a whole but in groups. Not ALL black ppl are this and not ALL white ppl are that.

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[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

"Drug dealers, drug addicts, gangsters, prostitutes, serial killers, rapists, or crooked cops, but if you show whites being racist in the 1960's suddenly they're all up in arms about it."
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This is soooo true! Patriots keeps saying "It's when white ppl are portrayed like that ALL the time or their all portrayed as racists."

I could name so many movies where whites have been portrayed as serial killers, yeeeeet there's no problem with that.

It's seriously like u guys on this board are saying "It's ok if we murder ppl but DEAR GO PLEASE DON'T LET US BE SEEN AS RACIST IN THE 1970's" Wow! What has the world come to?

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Vins_gurl18 17 years ago

Yes, that would be irritating. But it also irritates me when some black people act like anti-black racism is the only type of racism worth acknowledging.

No...I don't think that anti-black racism is the only type of racism worth acknowledging. But what can I say?? If you're black, you can only logically speak about the racism that your OWN people have endured, and for a LOT of black people, they STILL endure it in this country. That's not putting down whites/this country, it's just a weakness/a fact that we all just have to accept.

There are ignorant people of ALL walks/forms of life. But for some people on here (especially whites) to just pretend that this type of racsim doesn't or NEVER existed towards blacks is just absurd. This is a MOVIE we're talking about folks! And personally, one doesn't have to have "been there" to know whether or not the story was being told "accurately" or not. You can just look at the actions of the white swimmers in the movie and tell that they were being that way simply because their opponents were black! Why is that so hard to grasp?? These must have been somewhat true events, otherwise, I don't think they would have put those scenes in the movie.

On one occasion in the movie the white team came to where the black team had a swim meet, and then decided all of a sudden that they didn't want to swim for the meet anymore. On another occasion, one of the white swimmers actually tried to sabotage another black swimmer while they were competing in the water. ummm...okay, what else could this mean?? You guys don't have to think that hard....and if you do, then some of you are either really dense or stupider than I thought.

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[–] pujolshrking 17 years ago

not once did I say ALL black people go by this terminology, but you can't tell me you've never heard a black person say "I guess I am going to have to play my card" when they are down on money and can't afford something because I have heard it many times.

"Not ALL black ppl are this and not ALL white ppl are that."

I want to make it clear that I already mentioned this.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"not once did I say ALL black people go by this terminology, but you can't tell me you've never heard a black person say "I guess I am going to have to play my card" when they are down on money and can't afford something because I have heard it many times"

I've never heard any body say that before.

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[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

Contrary to what some ppl like to think black ppl don't just wake up and say "Hmmm I lost my job yesterday. Let me pull out that good ole race card."

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"That is exactly the problem, blacks believe that they are owed something because of racism blacks faced in the past."

Where did I say that? Where has any black person on this board said that black people are owed something? Looks to me like the only people that believe that lie are some white people.

"Actually there are colleges that are very prominently black."

I know, I went to an HBCU, and we had some white students there. Even the black colleges don't discriminate.

"And you have the same chance or probably even better at being denied a job if the man in charge is black."

There's no proof of that.

"So yes whites and blacks are both exposed to racism and a main reason that blacks have more problems is because they choose to."

Yeah right, blacks chose to have problems with racism. We chose to have cops profile and harass us. We chose to have stereotypes created about our intelligence and work ethic. We chose to white people tell us that we think we are owed something.

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[–] pujolshrking 17 years ago

"I know, I went to an HBCU, and we had some white students there. Even the black colleges don't discriminate."

Not to the full extent, lawfully the can't. So according to you white colleges don't discriminate either.

""There's no proof of that.""

No sh*t, show me proof of the opposite.

"Yeah right, blacks chose to have problems with racism. We chose to have cops profile and harass us. We chose to have stereotypes created about our intelligence and work ethic. We chose to white people tell us that we think we are owed something."

Yes you do choose to have problems with racism because blacks are at the very least half of the problem. Cops profile you guys because blacks, statistically, have always increased crime rates. And sterotypes are created from this but stereotypes are created from near anything when a large portion of your race does as much. And yes, a large portion of your race is involved with criminal activity, stupidity, and lack of work ethic. It would change most whites minds if crime rate among blacks decreased. Also, it doesn't help your case when other blacks are going around on this website saying they are owed something because of something that was done to people they didn't know or could really care less about by people they didn't know.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Not to the full extent, lawfully the can't. So according to you white colleges don't discriminate either."

I don't think that most white colleges discriminate. But HBCU's get far less white applicants than white colleges get black applicant's. So discrimination is more of an issue for white colleges than vice versa.

"No sh*t, show me proof of the opposite."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml

After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.

"Cops profile you guys because blacks, statistically, have always increased crime rates."

That's not true. Whites use drugs just as much as any other ethnic group, but the aren't profiled for an particular drug.

"And sterotypes are created from this but stereotypes are created from near anything when a large portion of your race does as much."

You mean like the stereotype that whites are racist, and will use any source that backs up their racism and ignore evidence that disproves it.

"And yes, a large portion of your race is involved with criminal activity, stupidity, and lack of work ethic."

No it's a lack of options. Similar to the high rate of criminal activity among european immigrants during prohibition.

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[–] DanteXavier 17 years ago

Where did I say that? Where has any black person on this board said that black people are owed something? Looks to me like the only people that believe that lie are some white people.

It is quite a common notion in the black community these days.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:aTMgijaQdvkJ:www.manningmarable.net/works/pdf/oct02a.pdf+percent+blacks+reparations&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

In fact, 68% of blacks still believed they are owed something by white people-an apology, etc, etc.

I know, I went to an HBCU, and we had some white students there. Even the black colleges don't discriminate.

It goes both ways. If you don't acknowledge this, you'll never solve the issues, and things will never improve.

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/race/070200berkow-sports.html

That's just one example.

Yeah right, blacks chose to have problems with racism. We chose to have cops profile and harass us. We chose to have stereotypes created about our intelligence and work ethic. We chose to white people tell us that we think we are owed something.

You're right, we as blacks don't choose to be profiled and to have problems with racism. We do not, however, help ourselves.
We give in to a degenerative "gangsta" culture and make it one of the symbols of black america, embracing the negative thuggery that comes along with it, and then saying it's because all the white people wanna buy it.

Well, if you don't want negative stereotypes and profiling, you might help yourself out a bit by toning down that culture, instead of embracing all the negativity and adopting it as your cultural symbol and then trying to justify keeping it around.

They get up on screen and act like thugs. They put this all on TV and pretty soon it comes to symbolize us as a community. It promotes negative behavior, promotes gang violence, spousal abuse, birth out of wedlock, etc, etc. And the culture here has embraced all of that, to the point at which that stuff ends up becoming 90% of what's shown of black culture on TV these days. THAT is the image everyone gets of us, because we only help by putting it all over the screen and adopting it as our culture both on screen and in real life. If we showed more positivity, maybe people would profile us a little less. Do you think?

Perhaps toning all that down would maybe, just maybe, help a bit with the profiling and stuff.
That wont get rid of all racism and profiling, but it'd be a good start. Honestly, that'd solve a couple of problems right there.

As for choosing the white people owing thing, blacks here actually do. I already showed that much. In fact, books have even been written about it.

http://www.amazon.com/Debt-What-America-Owes-Blacks/dp/0452282101

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[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

Is that 1st site even legit??? I mean let's be real here anyone can get on the web and type up false stats, put Dr. So and SO @ the top and say it's fact! It's just as bad a Wikipedia. Even if it is legit if I read correctly it didn't say all of white America.

As for books I could write a book about how great the KKK is but that doesn't represent the white culture as a whole.

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[–] DanteXavier 17 years ago

It was data from a CNN and USA Today study done in 2002. The guy presenting and citing the data is a PhD. Its not as bad as wikipedia, because on that site any average joe can write what he wants-these people are actually qualified to say what they're saying. It's some of the best data we have. None of your excuses will change that.

If you really want to actually refute the thesis I'm presenting here, then you'll have to do a lot better than that.

As for books, yeah, you could write a book about how great the KKK is, but when its a book written by one of the most prominent members of the black community here, it does say something. It's not like he's an isolated and well known extremist or something; he's got plenty of fans here.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"So because there are some racist black people out there, you get mad when ever a movie is made that accurately portrays how whites treated blacks in the past?"

Herein lies the problem, quinn_larkins. You and many others ASSUME that this movie accurately portrays how whites treated blacks in the 1970s. Since the majority of voting white Americans in the 1970s were constantly electing politicians who supported equal rights for blacks, portraying almost all the white characters as racists is GROSSLY INACCURATE.

Many posts have claimed that because the movie is based in fact, the character portrayals must be accurate. The only facts that can be verified about this movie are the scores that occurred at the swimming meets. As far as attributing viewpoints to the white competitors, that's all SPECULATION and NOT FACT.

The writers of the movie have assumed that the vast majority of white competitors were racists. Unless you can read minds, there's no way to make that assumption.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Herein lies the problem, quinn_larkins. You and many others ASSUME that this movie accurately portrays how whites treated blacks in the 1970s. Since the majority of voting white Americans in the 1970s were constantly electing politicians who supported equal rights for blacks, portraying almost all the white characters as racists is GROSSLY INACCURATE."

Sorry to tell you but the 1970's were not that long ago. I've heard from many older people from different parts of the country about how race relations were back then. And racism against blacks was still very much alive back then. It's still alive today, so it was much worse back then. And since the film makers and many of the actors are older than you, I would trust their judgment of accuracy over you're opinion based on who got elected at the time.
And BTW, Nixon was president in the 1970's, and he was a racist bastard.

"The writers of the movie have assumed that the vast majority of white competitors were racists. Unless you can read minds, there's no way to make that assumption."

Assumptions? You're making assumptions about everything in this movie based off of one line in a preview. You have no idea about what happens in the movie, and yet you're giving a lecture on how unreliable assumptions are.

Not the sharpest pencil in the box are you.

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"Sorry to tell you but the 1970's were not that long ago. I've heard from many older people from different parts of the country about how race relations were back then. And racism against blacks was still very much alive back then. It's still alive today, so it was much worse back then. And since the film makers and many of the actors are older than you, I would trust their judgment of accuracy over you're opinion based on who got elected at the time."
-------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, does that mean we can similarly trust the portrayal of black people advanced by D.W. "Birth of a Nation" Griffith? After all, he was alive in 1915, not you, and I doubt you've been engaging in many conversations with 110 year old people lately.

If you now fail to see the absurdity of your biased perspective, which is rife with double standards, then you're simply being dishonest.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"Gee, does that mean we can similarly trust the portrayal of black people advanced by D.W. "Birth of a Nation" Griffith? After all, he was alive in 1915, not you, and I doubt you've been engaging in many conversations with 110 year old people lately.

If you now fail to see the absurdity of your biased perspective, which is rife with double standards, then you're simply being dishonest."

So now you're comparing a movie about a black swim team with a movie about the KKK? I don't see how the two would relate. Birth of a nation is not based on any historical incidents when it depicts blacks trying to rape white women after getting freedom, or the KKK lynching blacks because they were trying to rape white women.

The events in Pride are based on true events, not propaganda. That's the big difference.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"And since the film makers and many of the actors are older than you, I would trust their judgment of accuracy over you're opinion based on who got elected at the time."

So, quinn_larkins, you think that the opinions of a handful of filmmakers give a more accurate accounting of racism than the millions of voters during the 70s. According to your philosophy, we might as well skip elections altogether and just pick a handful of people and ask their opinions. You seem to think that the opinion of a handful of people would be reflective of the nation as a whole.

The filmmakers did not know who was a racist and who was not a racist back then. You seem to think that it was written on everyone's forehead.

The only reliable method for determining if a white person was a racist in the 70s is by seeing how they voted. You may speculate as to whether someone was a racist but that's hardly solid evidence.

BTW. For some reason you say that it makes a difference "that many of the filmmakers and actors are older" than me. Your ASSUMPTION about my age is incorrect. Bernie Mac and Tom Arnold are older than me but Terrence Howard and almost everyone else is younger than me. I grew up in the 60s and 70s so my interpretation of events is just as valid as the filmmakers. However, unlike you, I realize that the experience of one individual (or even a few) does not give a comprehensive overview of what was going on throughout the country. That's why I rely on the written irrefutable documentation from white voters in the 70s.

You want to believe so badly that racism was prevalent throughout the country in the 70s and you're willing to disregard millions of white voters who supported equal rights for blacks throughout the 70s. If you keep believing in your unsubstantiated rumors, maybe the fantasy world that you've created will continue to exist.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"So, quinn_larkins, you think that the opinions of a handful of filmmakers give a more accurate accounting of racism than the millions of voters during the 70s."

First, the president in the early 70's was Nixon who was a racist. Second, millions of voters didn't grow up in Phila. like the person who the story is based on, or like Terrance Howard who portrays him.

"The filmmakers did not know who was a racist and who was not a racist back then. You seem to think that it was written on everyone's forehead.

The only reliable method for determining if a white person was a racist in the 70s is by seeing how they voted. You may speculate as to whether someone was a racist but that's hardly solid evidence."

Please stop, you're making no sense. This story is about the personal experiences of a few people in one city, not the american public's political opinion. I think the people who the story is based on are the best sources to tell what they went through.

"BTW. You ASSUME that many of the filmmakers and actors are older than me but that's incorrect. Bernie Mac and Tom Arnold are older than me but Terrence Howard and almost everyone else is younger than me. I grew up in the 60s and 70s so my interpretation of events is just as valid as the filmmakers. However, unlike you, I realize that the experience of one individual (or even a few) does not give a comprehensive overview of what was going on throughout the country. That's why I rely on the written irrefutable documentation from white voters in the 70s."

Well I don't know how old you are, nor do I care, but unless you grew up in Phila, you don't know what the enviornment was like.

In fact, unless you saw this movie, you don't know what it's like. You are assuming the movie portrays whites as racist, yet you haven't even seen it.

"You want to believe so badly that racism was prevalent throughout the country in the 70s and you're willing to disregard millions of white voters who supported equal rights for blacks throughout the 70s."

I know it was prevalent in certain places in the 70's because it was in the 60's, and things don't change over night.

"If you keep believing in your unsubstantiated rumors, maybe the fantasy world that you've created will continue to exist."

Unsubstantiated, tell me what scenes in the movie shows whites being portrayed as racist. Tell me what happened in those scenes. How many scenes in the movie has whites acting racist? What racist things did they say?

Oh, you don't know do you because you haven't seen the movie. So what the hell are you talking about?

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[–] ccr1633 17 years ago

"OMG this is so embarrassing...you actually think it's unrealistic to portray whites as racist in the 1960s and 70s? I'm starting to question the American education system here, do they leave out the racist history of America or something?"
------------------------------------

More embarrassing is your illiteracy and near nil reading comprehension.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

OMG this is so embarrassing...you actually think it's unrealistic to portray whites as racist in the 1960s and 70s? I'm starting to question the American education system here, do they leave out the racist history of America or something?"
------------------------------------

More embarrassing is your illiteracy and near nil reading comprehension.

Way to answer the question CCR, looks like your reading comprehension is not up to par. He asked if it was unrealistic to portray whites as racist in the 60's and 70's.

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[–] uundiscoveredd 17 years ago

thats the dumbest comment ive ever heard...
my ancestors werent even like that n im personally not racist so that was a totally ridiculous thing to say..just cuz im white doesnt mean that i want to make people slaves

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[–] HorseJumperGirl 17 years ago

agreed.

the majority of the posts on this entire "Pride" board of blatantly racist.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"i'm pretty sure this isn't the 43rd worst movie ever made. "

LOL. Well, MalikC71, if this movie is as bad as it's advertising previews (showing blatant racism against White people)-then it definitely could be the 43rd worst movie ever made.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"LOL. Well, MalikC71, if this movie is as bad as it's advertising previews (showing blatant racism against White people)-then it definitely could be the 43rd worst movie ever made."

Ha Ha, blatant racism. Do you mean the line "I know how you white folks get when y'all lose, and you about to lose badly." Is that it, that's blatant racism in the 70's?

Please, that same person would've had to give up his seat on a bus just because he's black not much earlier. There were many resteraunts, bars, and clubs that wouldn't serve blacks, that's blatant racism. Saying "you white folks" is just a description. Stop with the cry baby act and grow up.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

The movie would've been more realistic if the white coach had said "I know how you black folks get when you lose." As you are showing, many BLACK people today and especially back then had PERSECUTION COMPLEXES that made it especially difficult for them to gracefully handle losing.

Admit it, you know that the phrase "white folks" was not a description; the whole sentence indicated that whites cannot accept losing to blacks because whites are racists. If the phrase "black folks" had been used, you would be the first one to complain.

"Please, that same person would've had to give up his seat on a bus just because he's black not much earlier. There were many resteraunts, bars, and clubs that wouldn't serve blacks, that's blatant racism. Saying "you white folks" is just a description. Stop with the cry baby act and grow up."

You're the one, quinn_larkins, constantly exhibiting "a cry baby act" about the past. At least I'm living in the present and dealing with current issues. What does "giving up his seat on the bus" have to do with this movie being racist against whites? It seems that you're saying that blacks deserve to have the chance TODAY to be racist against whites because of things that happened decades ago.

When you talk so vehemently about the past, you make it sound like every injustice happened to YOU personally. In reality, though, I doubt that you experienced any of the historical prejudices that you're constantly referring to. Did you ever have to give up a seat on the bus? Were you ever denied entry into a restaurant because you're black?

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Unpredictable07 17 years ago

NEWSFLASH Death ppl al over the world are killing each other. WHITE PEOPLE TOO! WAIT OMG did I SHOCK u??? O yes sir ur ppl kill too and u kill each other more than we kill u... a lot more. Stop blaming us b/c ur ppl are dying. Examine ur own race 1st! Over the years I have seen many African Americans @ least acknowledge black-on-black crime and discuss the issue. It's time the ignorant white ppl do the same for white-on-white crime. Y do a lot of blacks talk about this? B/c the truth is black on black crime has the 2nd highest homicide rate right behind white on white crime.

Why do whites get blamed for racism more than any1 else in the world in THIS country??? Well 1) B/c America is THIS country, so the ppl in America will look @ each other 1st. Like u said ppl in Africa and Hati are killing ppl b/c of race (I'll assume u were referring to black-on-white crime). How many white ppl do u hear complain about them??? --- My point exactly and 2)B/c equality among the races in this country is no older than 35 yrs. A lot of ppl who have experienced racism 1st hand or were once/are racist are still alive. 35 years is not a long time my friend. For everyone else w/ the exception of South African and a few others, that ship has sailed. 3) Ignorance is still VERY MUCH alive and well in this country, on both sides of the fence

As far as the sports go, Hockey is stil a prodominatly white sport and it's pretty popular . U say blacks have ruined the sports but I DARE u to compare the profits of the NBA or NFL to the NHL. I hate to break it to u but u just can't have everything. I swear some white ppl on this board sound like little kids. NO u can't have everything and NO u won't always get your way. I dunno about u but I learned the concept of sharing in kindergarten.

I don't understand how racist white ppl can tell blacks to "stop living in the past" When their WHOLE way of thinking is in the past. Wow! Not only are they idiots but they're hypocrites Too!

Quit crying. NOW.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

How can Black people be racist against white people in America? Any specifics?

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

You are both so correct and your observations perspicacious, independentthinker and unpredictable. Regarding the popularity of hockey, quite a few are attracted. Internet searches made last month, of different sports, are as follows:
3,222,630 Hockey
2,170,770 Football
3,324,380 Soccer
1,944,310 Basketball
7,605,340 Nascar
455,510 Lacrosse

The only time white people "order" blacks to stop living in the past is when the truth is being told about them. They have their lineage, renaissance fairs, revolutionary war and civil war reenactments, fly their confederate flags, organize their sundown towns and worship their European ancestry and get mad when the world doesn't follow suit and obey their edicts.

They whine like little girls about everything and expect the world to kowtow to them like they were extensions of God himself. Manifest destiny is integral to their psyches. Yet, they are having fewer babies, abandoning their families and by 2050 will be less than 50% of the population in America. Unable to see the logs in their own eyes, white people and white whine is at an all time high.
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2004-04/20wise.cfm

That's not a good thing however. Though these people on IMDB are not the cream of the crop, are racist and hateful, I don't think they are anything today as compared to other cultures with respect to their "active" hatred for blacks. Yes, institutionalized and real http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2006-07/07wise.cfmbut...

The Latinos are no joke and kill for no reason other than blacks being black and alive! They are ethnic cleansing like mad in LA and across the country. They've teamed with the Aryan brotherhood and do their dirty work. It's not going to be a pretty site over time. They are coming too, with a vengeance and blacks better stay armed.http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=TSHA,TSHA:2006-07,TSHA:en&q=ethnic+cleansing+mexican+black

I know white people that are decent people and having white Americans in charge of things is, in my opinion, less dangerous at this point in history and better than having Arabs (African slavery in their countries, ethnic cleansing in Africa), Latinos (very racist) or Asians (slavery of Africans in India and China) from other countries whose lack of christian values will make whites seem like Martin Luther Kings, in comparison. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/world/slavery/default.stm

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

Thats a really great post.

"know where he stand even if he wrong than one who comes like an angel and is nothing but a devil"

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"The movie would've been more realistic if the white coach had said "I know how you black folks get when you lose." As you are showing, many BLACK people today and especially back then had PERSECUTION COMPLEXES that made it especially difficult for them to gracefully handle losing."

The white kids were making fun of the black team.

"Admit it, you know that the phrase "white folks" was not a description; the whole sentence indicated that whites cannot accept losing to blacks because whites are racists. If the phrase "black folks" had been used, you would be the first one to complain."

No, it was a description. If the white coach used the phrase black folks, I would've been fine with that. If he used a racial slur, then I would've been upset.

But white folk is not a racial slur. I could see if the black coach said "you crackers" or "you peckerwoods", but he didn't. And you guys are getting upset because of the use of "white folks" and you claim that blacks complain too much.

You people are a bunch of cry babies plain and simple.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

The term "white folks" is not a racial slur. However, it is another way of saying the White race and when you associate a negative attribute to a certain race that is racism. For example, when someone says that "black folks are lazy" or 'black folks are violent'. Those are racist statements because they indict the entire Black race. Likewise, when someone says that white folks are sore losers, that too is a racist statement.

Judging by your previous posts, you seem to be the one who is a "crybaby" about historical events that happened long before you were even born. At least the complaints from the white posters are regarding current issues.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"For example, when someone says that "black folks are lazy" or 'black folks are violent'. Those are racist statements because they indict the entire Black race."

Not if you're talking to a group of black people and you say "I know how you black folks get"
You're not talking about the whole race, you're talking about the specific group of blacks in front of you.

So when he said you white folks, he could've just meant the ones he was competing against.

"Judging by your previous posts, you seem to be the one who is a "crybaby" about historical events that happened long before you were even born. At least the complaints from the white posters are regarding current issues."

I don't complain about the past, but I do explain it accurately to people who don't know much about race relations through out american history. Saying racism against blacks existed is not complaining about it, it's stating a fact.

But complaining about a movie you haven't seen, because of one preview that uses the word white folks? That's just being a whiner plain and simple.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

"I don't complain about the past, but I do explain it accurately to people who don't know much about race relations through out american history. Saying racism against blacks existed is not complaining about it, it's stating a fact."

So you think that you explain the past accurately. That's pretty funny. Your posts about Irish-Americans and about racism in the 1970s show that you are constantly spreading FALSE INFORMATION.

No one ever said that racism against blacks didn't exist. What I and others have said is that in the 1970s, many white people were NOT racists. That's a fact! But you go ahead and try to promote your revisionist history. It's a free country and you're entitled to do so. Just don't expect everyone to blindly accept everything you say.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"So you think that you explain the past accurately. That's pretty funny. Your posts about Irish-Americans and about racism in the 1970s show that you are constantly spreading FALSE INFORMATION."

Sorry if you don't want to believe it, but the NINA signs in america is just a myth. There is no evidence of them at all in america, and it's been proven that many irish immigrants got jobs when they came to america.

"No one ever said that racism against blacks didn't exist. What I and others have said is that in the 1970s, many white people were NOT racists. That's a fact!"

I know that. However the whites who were not racist usually didn't come running to blacks help when being harrassed or attacked by white racists. That's a fact.

"But you go ahead and try to promote your revisionist history. It's a free country and you're entitled to do so. Just don't expect everyone to blindly accept everything you say."

I don't expect you to accept what I say. But if you show no evidence of NINA signs in america, and no evidence of many whites fighting against white racists to help blacks, you're not proving me wrong.

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[–] PatriotsRchamps 17 years ago

I gave you proof of the No Irish Need Apply signs!! I gave you the web page that showed a New York Times page with a picture of an actual sign. I also gave you another web page that showed an actual sign which had the date and the company that printed it in Boston.

Your knowledge of Irish history seems to be limited to what you looked up on the Web. You quoted the first web page listed for NINA signs and apparently didn't do any other research. If you had, you would've found numerous web sites and articles verifying that the signs actually did exist.

It's clear that you don't want to accept the truth because then maybe you'd have to realize that blacks are not the only ones who've faced discrimination in the US.

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"I gave you proof of the No Irish Need Apply signs!! I gave you the web page that showed a New York Times page with a picture of an actual sign. I also gave you another web page that showed an actual sign which had the date and the company that printed it in Boston."

Sorry Patriot but I've never seen this web page. If I'm wrong show it again?

I do know that I showed proof that there's no evidence of NINA signs, and I've shown evidence that many of the irish immigrants did indeed find work in America.

"Your knowledge of Irish history seems to be limited to what you looked up on the Web. You quoted the first web page listed for NINA signs and apparently didn't do any other research. If you had, you would've found numerous web sites and articles verifying that the signs actually did exist."

Oh please, I could easily show 4-5 webpages talking about how the NINA signs didn't exist in America. You claim to have shown one page that did show a NINA sign, but I doubt you'll show it again. Probably because you never showed one in the first place.

"It's clear that you don't want to accept the truth because then maybe you'd have to realize that blacks are not the only ones who've faced discrimination in the US."

Show me some evidence and I'll face the truth. Why don't you read these sites and face the truth:

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

"No Irish Need Apply":
A Myth of Victimization

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1584684.html

Today, anyone can buy fake NINA signs on eBay (the fakes are all dated Sept 11, 1915, by the way.) No historian, archivist or museum curator has ever been able to find a genuine NINA sign, nor a newspaper report or court case, nor even a recollection of a particular sign ...

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

"White race "

Where does this 'white race' come from? There is no white culture. There is British, Irish, German, Eastern European, etc. etc.

"know where he stand even if he wrong than one who comes like an angel and is nothing but a devil"

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DBDante 17 years ago

"Racism isn't an institution if it was then a single person couldn't be a racist. dumbasses."

I say this with every bit of condescension I can muster: you are pretty ignorant. That racism is an institution is not an opinion, you merely misunderstand what is meant when people talk about racism. It is no more a theory than gravity is.

"in a country where a black man is currently running for president thats a pretty good indication that darker times in race are behind us "

A) This is hardly the first time a Black man has run for president. B) Call me when a Black man wins the vote. Then we'll discuss progress.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

xderknielsenx:

I agree with you on one thing, no one should get a pass due to their race. White or black, harming other people is wrong, unless it's self defense.

Look. Evil is evil. Emotions are running high on this board due to the racist comments. It happens on all of the black boards and blacks get tired of it. It's action and reaction that the people see in terms of blacks hating whites. There are no excuses for attacking people and threatening their safety. The law should punish anyone who does so.

There's no justification for heinous acts by anyone. The institutionalized racism that everyone refers to is well defined and being good Negroes for 350 years didn't change much without a huge fight and many lost lives. Emotions run high when people feel lumped into one category based upon the color of their skin, except real racists, who are beyond reason. I have to save the lives of southern white racists who hate my guts, every single day. Emotion has to take a back seat when I do my tasks. People are flawed, hurt and trying to get their points across, just like you. Patience is difficult but it pays off in the end.

In terms of enslavement, those alive still gain from the institution and just as it's hard for Americans to count their blessings and see their advantages, even though this country is wrought with problems, it's hard for whites to see their privileges because they don't live life in a non white world. It's hard for men to see their advantages because they are not women and it's hard for women to appreciate their status in this country because they are not in Arabic countries. Same with children, etc. People are not grateful for the things they have nor can they empathize with the experiences of others. It's narcissism and a lack of understanding and education. Also contributing is a lack of historical knowledge and context. That's my take on it.

Please check out these titles:

you don't have to agree but I think you will find these to be good books.

1. Two Nations:Black and White, Separate, Hostile, Unequal (Paperback)
by Andrew Hackerhttp://www.amazon.com/Two-Nations-Separate-Hostile-Unequal/dp/0345405374

2. Lies My Teacher Told Mehttp://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/156584100X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7910945-2111148?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176268429&sr=1-1

3. Confessions of an S.O.B by the founder
of USA today-http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-S-O-B-Al-Newharth/dp/0451172728/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7910945-2111148?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176268481&sr=1-1

4. White Like Mehttp://www.amazon.com/White-Like-Me-Reflections-Privileged/dp/1932360689/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7910945-2111148?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176268574&sr=1-1

5. Forgive and Forgethttp://www.amazon.com/Forgive-Forget-Healing-Hurts-Deserve/dp/0060674318/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7910945-2111148?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176268766&sr=1-1

6. Aristotle's poetics, rhetoric, logic. google it. effective arguing from the ancient greek world.

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

What many people also do not understand is that the nation has never gotten past slavery; it wasn't merely an act or a crime, it was an economic paradigm. The money generated from not just the slave trade but slave labor has built the American infrastructure, much of which still stands. That money still circulates as there are still families with that old money passed down from generation onwards. Then there are the businesses started with the money earned by the slave trade, including major oil companies.

On the other side of the coin is slave mentality which is mental disease that plagues Black people to this day. To offer an example from another culture, the Old Testament tells of Moses' and the children of Abraham's forty year journey through the desert after escaping Egypt. While I do not believe that the book is historical fact, I would rather point out the moral of the story. God had the freed slaves travel for forty years so that by the time the Jews had reached the Promised Land, the former slave generations had died out; only free men with free minds would live in the Promised Land, the slave mentality would poison the well.

Dr. Harper, while I try to write with style, you write with eloquence. This perhaps makes you heard better and easier to absorb. Good reading your post, Doc.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

My goodness DBDante, your writing is absorbed like water on a sponge. I diligently work to master the art of writing. One can never know for sure if their message is properly penetrating and then settling in the minds of readers until another affirms it as so or until the writer's studies have created in him a level of mastery which allows the author to manipulate words through knowing, to affect emotions or bend minds.

For the latter I refer you to Aristotle's Poetics, free online. http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/60 ways to turn a phrase is another great resource.
The keys: rhetoric (law,logic), poetics (story, poetry); both for persuasion.

Therefore, I thank you for the compliment. It boosts my confidence and lets me know that my studies are not in vain.

My style is more 19th century European due to my love affair with Alexandre Dumas and bible narrative and poetics! www.cadytech.org.

Finally, do not sell yourself short. You are very well; clear and concise, nice cadence, etc. Words are so precious and powerful, aren't they?

You get your points across without offending the eyes, ears or heart. Trust me, you are eloquent enough for now and will continue to improve as you need to. Check out a book called 60 ways to turn a phrase and Alexander Dumas (free on . I am studying it now. Ciao.

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

Aw, cheers, Doc! (Am I correct in assuming you are a DDS?) No, not hard on myself at all. I'm a part time history professor (U of Houston) full time stand up comedian. I mostly come to the boards because it gives me an opportunity to refine my writings in a real setting and I often come up with great comedic material here. I don't feel I'm a poor writer by any stretch, but we all can use some improvement.

I write (or try to anyway) specifically to help my 'voice' so I try to be stylistic. I feel that I usually reach my goal, so no selling myself short. But I just wanted to point out that your patience, class and eloquence tend to be more pleasant, and as such accessable, in such heated conversations. Pleasure chatting with you.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

Cheers to you Dante! I am impressed! Thank you for the compliment. Can you recommend any good writing books?

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

Well, for comedic writing, I found Franklyn Ajaye's book indispensible.

http://www.amazon.com/Comic-Insights-Art-Stand-up-Comedy/dp/1879505541/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-7081189-4850506?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176325069&sr=8-2

However, I found that Laugh.com's CD series of interviews with comedians (Woody Allen, George Carlin, Jonathan Winters, Robin Williams, oh my.) to be a treasure.

Beyond that, honestly, never read a book about writing since college. I find just reading is the best way to learn rhetoric and other writing techniques. It helps that my attention span is so short I need to read in the bathroom to keep myself occupied. Even when I'm pissing. Try it, its adds a few pages a day.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

Thanks Dante! LOL. I was going to order F.A.'s book. Do you think he's funny?

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[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"So which is it either there are no racist people and just a institution or just people and no institution."

It's both. The thing is people want to say a person making a racist comment is just as wrong as the racist institution that kept blacks oppressed for centuries. One is worse than the other.

"And grow up for god's sake, we live in a country where a black man is currently running for president thats a pretty good indication that darker times in race are behind us so grow up already"

Why don't you tell your fellow white posters to grow up. There on this board screaming racism about a movie they haven't even seen.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

To quinn larkins: To see a white person admonish another white person would be classified as the 9th wonder of the world. I won't hold my breath. Even serial killers aren't admonished. Instead they get extensive documentaries asking, where did he go wrong. Though 99% of them are white, it is never an indictment of the so-called white race. Good post.

screaming racism about a movie they haven't seen

How pathetic is that? Whiners. By-product of white privilege. the end.

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] quinn_larkins 17 years ago

"how about the three white girls beat up by nine black youths over halloween in southern california that was in the news. Or the white truck driver hit in the head with a brick for being white after the rodney king verdict. Or how about any number of black comedians who use the issue of race to make money because truly orignial or inventive material is too hard to come up with. Or how about the terms honkey, cracker, white boy/girl, whitey, white devil, etc."

Those are small things compared to the real racism blacks have faced in the past and present.

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

and the history of the concept. Whites never complained before because they never cared what blacks thought of them. They knew they had the backing of the white house, congress, the courts and police officers. Their jobs were to keep blacks locked up and out of their neighborhoods.

After the civil rights movement, the country's leaders legislated to open the door to foreigners, stating that whites would never have to work side by side with these inferior blacks who'd gained rights by civil law, or with those this country's racist citizens considered their inferiors or, to this day, non-citizens, or citizens by proxy. (13th, 14th amendment and civil rights bill- see Tribe, constitutional law).

These minorities flooded into America, and as model citizens, created a buffer between whites and blacks as well as allies for whites. If a white man calls for extermination of blacks it's taken more seriously than a black man doing so. CSPAN thus allows such talk knowing that it could and would never happen. For more history on a decades old concept...
http://www.racematters.org/blackslackpowertoberacists.htm

These model citizens will be the bosses and executives telling your children what to do. A large majority of the graduate students in this school are Asian and east Indian. Treat them well buddy.

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[–] DBDante 17 years ago

...I wish I had read your post before posting myself. You make the point much better than I.

"know where he stand even if he wrong than one who comes like an angel and is nothing but a devil"

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[–] ddsharper 17 years ago

Thanks you DBDante, I appreciate your comment very much. Check this out.

A Look into The Racist Mind
By: Bill Ahrens
In today's society, the racist mind is one that is immediately discounted. Any person adhering to a system of beliefs involving inherent racial inferiority is rightly labeled a bigot, and any attempt made to find rationality or reason in their arguments is ultimately doomed to fail. In spite of this, many people still cling to preposterous racist views, both publicly and privately. To most of us it is nearly impossible to understand what might motivate these people and what the factors are which cause them to feel as strongly as they do, but the white militant movement nevertheless continues to spread a doctrine of hatred and violence against racial minorities.
http://www.umich.edu/~mrev/archives/1996/1-17-96/racist.html

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