7) Destruction of evidence (WTC steel, ATC tapes and information from the tortured detainees that the 9/11 Commission based their "report")
"Due to the small number of samples, statistical data analysis of the damage features and failure modes would be of little use" 6.4.1 Core Columns page 128 on the pdf file http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire05/PDF/f05130.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/us/tape-of-air-traffic-controllers-made-on-9-11-was-destroyed.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07intel.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22217926/ns/politics-white_house/t/cia-destroyed-tapes-despite-court-orders/
http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/jose-rodriguez-and-the-ninety-two-tapes
You know, those tapes that supposedly had "confessions" from terrorists that the 9/11 (C)ommission relied HEAVILY on to create their fairytale "report".
You have to take the governments word that they are not lying, really nothing the government has said is backed up with anything....it's either classified, destroyed or it's just some ATM withdrawals or bank accounts.
The US House Committee on Science reported, in March 2002:
" In the month that lapsed between the terrorist attacks and the deployment of the BPAT team, a significant amount of steel debris—including most of the steel from the upper floors—was removed from the rubble pile, cut into smaller sections, and either melted at the recycling plant or shipped out of the U.S. Some of the critical pieces of steel—including the suspension trusses from the top of the towers and the internal support columns—were gone before the first BPAT team member ever reached the site. Fortunately, an NSF-funded independent researcher, recognizing that valuable evidence was being destroyed, attempted
to intervene with the City of New York to save the valuable artifacts, but the city was unwilling to suspend the recycling contract. Ultimately, the researcher appealed directly to the recycling plant, which agreed to provide the researcher, and ultimately the ASCE team and the SEAoNY volunteers, access to the remaining steel and a storage area where they could temporarily store important artifacts for additional analysis. Despite this agreement, however, many pieces of steel still managed to escape inspection."
"No clear authority and the absence of an effective protocol for how the building performance investigators should conduct and coordinate their investigation with the concurrent search and rescue efforts, as well as any criminal investigation: Early confusion over who was in charge of the site and the lack of authority of investigators to impound pieces of steel for examination before they were recycled led to the loss of important pieces of evidence that were destroyed early during the search and rescue effort. In addition, a delay in the deployment of FEMA's BPAT team may have compounded the lack of access to valuable data and artifacts."
"Difficulty obtaining documents essential to the investigation, including blueprints, design drawings, and maintenance records: The building owners, designers and insurers, prevented independent researchers from gaining access—and delayed the BPAT team in gaining access—to pertinent building documents largely because of liability concerns. The documents are necessary
to validate physical and photographic evidence and to develop computer models that can explain why the buildings failed and how similar failures might be avoided in the future."
"Uncertainty as a result of the confidential nature of the BPAT study: The confidential nature of the BPAT study may prevent the timely discovery of potential gaps in the investigation, which may never be filled if important, but ephemeral evidence, such as memories or home videotapes, are lost. The confidentiality agreement that FEMA requires its BPAT members to sign has
frustrated the efforts of independent researchers to understand the collapse, who are unsure if their work is complementary to, or duplicative of, that of the BPAT team. In addition, the agreement has prevented the sharing of research results and the ordinary scientific give-and-take that otherwise allows scientists and engineers to winnow ideas and strengthen results."
-From http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/science/hsy77747.000/hsy77747_0.htm
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8) There were Wargames on and around 9/11/01 one of them even included a hijacked plane crashing into the World Trade Center.
Peter Jennings Describes 9/11 Wargames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpI9hD23Meg http://911proof.com/9.html
The Failure to Defend the Skies on 9/11 timeline http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essayairdefense
Yeah them running a "drill" that is the same as what is happening in real life....just yet another amazing "coincidence" to add to the mountains of other "coincidences". How many "coincidences" can you have for 1 event until you start to wonder?
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9) Bush and Cheney after delaying the start of the investigation for over a year and then only agreeing to appear before the commission on the condition that they: NOT BE UNDER OATH, testify together (not separately as was requested), behind closed doors and the testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by
one of the commission staffers and even these notes would not be made public! Total secrecy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9AoaU7LlTk
And the 9/11 (C)ommission relied heavily on another government run "investigation", Penttbom, which just like all the others, you just have to take the governments word that they are not lying to us again.
Penttbom was full of useless biographical info that proves nothing other than people have bank accounts and use ATM's.
Penttbom was just like all the other government run "investigations", just statements made by the government with no actual proof.
And the "hijackers" just so happen to leave luggage full of just the right info to neatly tie them all together and they mostly used joint accounts so they could be easily linked with one another....that was just so nice of the "hijackers" to have all their info ready to go for the government to easily find.
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10) Cheney requested Tom Daschle (who was sent anthrax from a US military base) on several occasions limit the scope of the investigation and not to investigate the issue of prior knowledge.
Cheney & Bush Asked Tom Daschle Not To Investigate 9/11 AT ALL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePOIhhd9Jr0
https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/CIA.pdf page 26
The President and Vice President trying to stop investigations into the biggest attack in our countries history is certainly not an irrelevant fact.
The anthrax was from a US military lab! Do you think Al Qaeda broke in and stole it or something? Or that Bruce Ivins had anything to do with it? As usual, the government has zero evidence Ivins had anything to do with it. Just yet another unanswered question about 9/11.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/new-report-casts-doubt-on-fbi-anthrax-investigation/
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/667671.pdf
http://www.globalresearch.ca/head-of-the-fbis-anthrax-investigation-says-the-whole-thing-was-a-sham/5443516
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11) The Commission was not about assigning blame, no accountability, no one was fired, promotions were handed out instead...PROMOTIONS were handed out to the people in charge when the biggest supposed "failure" to protect us in our nations history happened.
Promotions after the 9/11 attacks: http://www.mountingevidence.org/appendix-b.html http://911blogger.com/node/12767
You don't promote failure.
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12) Bush and bin Laden families connections (Arbusto Oil, Bush Sr. would stay with the bin Ladens when he was in Saudi Arabia, Carlyle group whose members included Bush Sr. and Shafiq bin Laden OBL's brother had meetings in D.C. at the Ritz Carlton September 10 and 11, 2001. Search Bush bin Laden family connections plenty of information out there.
http://www.denverpost.com/rodriguez/ci_4319898
http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/69782:ties-between-the-bush-family-and-osama-bin-laden
http://www.globalresearch.ca/george-w-bush-and-the-bin-laden-family-meet-in-new-york-city-one-day-before-911/5332870
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html
http://noliesradio.org/archives/4810
Estranged from his family? maybe, maybe not. When your family member is a wanted person, I don't think anyone would say..."yeah we were hanging out last week"
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13) U.S. is offered bin Laden twice, before and after the attacks if they just provide evidence, the Bush Admin. refuses to do so.
Bush Was Offered Osama Bin Laden On A Silver Platter - 2/27/01: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX_t8qPQp1g END WAR No
Evidence Given To Public Or Taliban On OBL Behind 9/11 & Thus Preventing Needless War: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOTSxM_2oE
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14) 9/11 Commission Report was a Commission admittedly "set up to fail" according to the Chairman himself.
The 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0LBARGBupM
Also check out Philip Zelikow, Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission, his college thesis was on the "Creation and Maintenance of Public Myths." Zelikow basically wrote the 9/11 Commission's myth, he decided what would be seen and what wouldn't be seen. Here is an article he did in 1998, 3 years before the attacks:
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/652/catastrophic_terrorism.html
The method employed by Phillip Zelikow is known as stove-piping. He had all information and evidence come directly through him and his judgment before it saw the light of day, if ever. According to sources, he would give fact-finding tasks to staff members (ex. Hijackers origins, Pentagon actions, F.A.A. response, etc.) and then take their conclusions, organize them with the other groups conclusions and rewrite everything. On more then one occasion, staffers complained that they were being told not to investigate certain things or only focus on one issue. This method used by Mr. Zelikow is known as compartmentalization. It is commonly used by the N.S.A. or C.I.A. to make sure no one person can piece together all the components of a particular truth.
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15) There were many, many conflicts of interest in the 9/11 Commission members.
The conflicts of interest in the 9/11 Commission members and Henry "King of Coverups" Kissinger, a wanted war criminal.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4549161/conflict-interest-philip-zelikow-911-commission
http://www.dc911truth.org/flyers/4Supp911Conflicts.pdf
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/
Conflicts of interest in any investigation is certainly not irrelevant.
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16) Commissioner Max Cleland resigning from the 9/11 Commission saying "The White House is playing cover up."
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/3/23/the_white_house_has_played_cover
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17) There was elevator modernization, rust treatment and asbestos abatement of major steel support columns within the elevator shafts of WTC towers 1 and 2 that was ongoing leading up to 9/11.
And access to the Towers elevator shafts means access to core columns where occupants can't see.
(From the Merritt & Harris building assessment from Dec. 2000 pg.16) that says "Abatement of asbestos containing fireproofing material in elevator shafts is
ongoing"
They also had access to the visco-elastic dampers. (from M&H building assessment from Dec. 2000 pg.15)
The visco-elastic dampers minimize the sway sensation, there were about 10,000 visco-elastic dampers between support columns and floor trusses throughout the building. And the next "physical sampling and analysis" of the visco-elastic dampers was in 2001.
There's also Demolition Access To The WTC Towers Part 1, for a lot more detailed info.
http://911review.com/articles/ryan/demolition_access_p1.html
Demolition Access To The WTC Towers: Part Two - Security http://911review.com/articles/ryan/demolition_access_p2.html
Demolition Access to the WTC Towers: Part Three - Carlyle, Kissinger, SAIC and Halliburton: A 9/11 Convergence
http://911review.com/articles/ryan/carlyle_kissinger_saic_halliburton.html
Demolition Access to the WTC Towers: Part Four - Cleanup http://911review.com/articles/ryan/demolition_access_p4.html
An article from Elevator World from March 2001 titled "Drive to the Top" by Robert Baamonde, Jr. Ace elevator undertook what was perhaps, one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history. It took place at the WTC, they won second place for Elevator World's Project of the Year award.
There's also NIST, I would not call NIST a legitimate source for info but NIST itself says that, on 9/11, “Elevators 6A and 7A were out of service for modernization“. (NIST NCSTAR 1-8, p.97).
Major WTC renovations to be completed within one year of December, 2000 included rust treatment and asbestos abatement of major steel support columns within the elevator shafts of WTC towers 1 and 2, from M&H report, info highlighted in M&H report here: http://911blogger.com/news/2009-12-10/port-authority-nynj-no-records-contracts-all-major-wtc-renovations-recommended-year-2000-property-assessment
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And for anyone who thinks a building couldn't be rigged without people in the building knowing or anyone who thinks it couldn't be kept secret really need to look into the secret retrofit of the Citibank Tower. They brought people in to weld during the night and cleaned up and left every morning before the occupants arrived. The occupants had no idea what was going on in their building or the danger they were in.
I guess some people think incendiary/explosives are always in boxes with Acme Explosives written on the side.
How Manhattan escaped tragedy (3 parts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZhgTewKhTQ
The Secret Retrofit of the Citibank Tower in 1978
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ekNosnieQ
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/citicorp.html
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/05/29/the-fifty-nine-story-crisis
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2014/04/17/the_citicorp_tower_design_flaw_that_could_have_wiped_out_the_skyscraper.html
I am sure some people can just ignore all these facts, but for anyone who isn't determined to over look or deny facts, please look deeply into 9/11.
WTC Explosive Connections pdf's (very detailed connections):
https://wikispooks.com/w/images/e/ef/WTC1_Explosive_Connections.pdf
https://wikispooks.com/w/images/6/65/WTC2_Explosive_Connections.pdf
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Ddey65
8 years ago
You're still repeating these lies, after they were clearly disproven. How typical.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
It would be useful if people would say who they are talking to specifically on here.
Ddey65 what exactly has been clearly disproved to you?
Also I would like to ask anyone who believes the official conspiracy theory by the government about 9/11 to answer a simple question:
Which official collapse theory do you believe and why?
1) On and right after 9/11, "experts" - Towering Inferno, Steel melted, later backtracked.
2) Or FEMA - Floor failure: "A pancake-type collapse of successive floors"
3) Or Silverstein/Weidlinger - Column failure only, this theory was for the insurance companies.
4) Or NIST - External column failure from sagging floors and softened core columns, etc ... leading to pile driver collapse.
Just pick a # and say why you believe that # over the other 3 official versions.
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IThinkImMe
8 years ago
If I were you, I wouldn't expect a logical, comprehensive discussion with DDey (or Gary161) any time soon. They're obvious shills that keep spouting the same thing over and over. Never willing to look at new evidence.
Also, as a side note, looking at DDey's posting history is very disconcerting, He was admittedly born in 1965, making him 51 years old. Yet constantly posts on message boards for tweener shows. Really makes you wonder who's really behind that keyboard.
Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards
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Ddey65
8 years ago
What a crock! None of you twoofers have logical conclusions to a damn thing. All you have is revisionist history, paranoid delusions, and a desire to make yourselves feel more important, or at least superior to everyone else.
And by the way you're the last person who criticize me for my taste in entertainment, since you're older than I am and your messages are also on some kids shows.
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IThinkImMe
8 years ago
Considering I'm still in my 30's, how am I older than you?
Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards
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Ddey65
8 years ago
I looked you up a few months ago, and it claimed YOU were 55. Just goes to show that you can't always believe everything you see on the internet, and you especially can't believe it when it comes from the 9/11 twoof cults.
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IThinkImMe
8 years ago
Oohh. you were stalking me? How cute!
Just goes to show that you can't always believe everything you see on the internet
But apparently YOU can believe EVERYTHING the mainstream media tells you, eh?
Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards
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Ddey65
8 years ago
Oohh. you were stalking me? How cute!
This from a *beep* who blasts me for watching kids TV even though a lot of adult TV has gone down the toilet, and that it's still better than the crappy onslaught of SO-CALLED "reality-TV" that has been polluting our airwaves for the past 25+ years.
But apparently YOU can believe EVERYTHING the mainstream media tells you, eh?
I base it on more than just the media, mainstream or otherwise. You see, this is another problem with you people. You're all told to think this way about people who know you're full of crap.
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IThinkImMe
8 years ago
Oh here we go with the 'you people' argument again... Well then, you people all seem to think that everyone that believes 9/11 didn't happen the way the media reported it all believe that there were no planes, scaler weapons, nukes, etc etc ad naseum. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Just like when I linked to Judy Woods site specifically regarding looking at the pictures only and not reading a word that was written and both you and Gary teamed up and started bashing her batsh t crazy theories. I know most, if not all, of her theories are crazy. I know that planes actually struck both towers (although there is a great video regarding how it was possible in 1999 to digitally alter live footage with a thing called Avid if they wanted to fake them) I know something struck the Pentagon. But based on all the physical evidence and eyewitness testimony presented thus far, I cannot say that it was flight 77.
The point is, 90% of your counter arguments involve straying from the original question or statement and contain personal attacks and name calling. Which is extremely childish and shows a lack of respect for those that died that day. Look, if no portion of the government ever lied, then we could believe everything they say. But we know they lie and they do it right in our faces with sh teating grins.
Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards
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Ddey65
8 years ago
Oh here we go with the 'you people' argument again... Well then, you people all seem to think that everyone that believes 9/11 didn't happen the way the media reported it all believe that there were no planes, scaler weapons, nukes, etc etc ad naseum. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Just because you and your faction of twoofers isn't
that bat-sh!t crazy, lying, despicable enemy propagandists, doesn't mean you aren't crazy, lying, despicable enemy propagandists.
I know something struck the Pentagon. But based on all the physical evidence and eyewitness testimony presented thus far, I cannot say that it was flight 77.
And I know, based on the people that were there, the size of the collision, the phone calls from Flight 77, the statements from Mohammed Atta that "we have some planes," and the debris from the Pentagon, that it
was Flight 77.
The point is, 90% of your counter arguments involve straying from the original question or statement and contain personal attacks and name calling.
No they don't.
Which is extremely childish and shows a lack of respect for those that died that day.
Actually it's the accusations you people make that show a lack of respect for those who died that day, hence the insults.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
IThinkImMe said: "If I were you, I wouldn't expect a logical, comprehensive discussion with DDey (or Gary161) any time soon. They're obvious shills that keep spouting the same thing over and over. Never willing to look at new evidence."
======
Yeah I can tell that from their posts, that lack any links or info trying to support their claims. Just childish attempts to insult anyone who questions the Official Conspiracy Theory of 9/11.
But it is not about them, they are just useful tools to get facts about 9/11 out to people who are actually taking the time to research the biggest event in our nations history.
Their lame attempts to insult and distract never work, so just use them as the tools they are.
Try reading a book called "Another 19 Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects" It is very detailed and shows just some of the people in positions of power that could pull off the attack and then the ensuing coverup of 9/11.
Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are so obviously implicated in 9/11, they are on the top of the list.
Another Nineteen (20, actually):
Frank Carlucci— Carlyle Group, BDM International, Former Deputy Director of CIA, Secretary of Defense.
Richard Armitage— Deputy Secretary of State on 9/11, extensive history in DoD.
Louis Freeh— Former F.B.I. Director
George Tenet— Director of Central Intelligence, July 11, 1997 – July 11, 2004.
Richard Clarke— White House Chief of Counterterrorism, 1984-2004; United States National Security Council, 1992–2003; United States Department of State, 1985-1992; centralCOG operative.
Benedict Sliney— Wall Street attorney, Installed as FAA Manager of Tactical Operations on 9/11.
Michael Canavan— JSOC, SOCEU, FAA “hijack coordinator” on 9/11.
Ralph Eberhart— NORAD.
Carl Truscott— Secret Service.
John Deutch— Deputy Secretary of Defense, 1994–1995; Director of Central Intelligence, May 10, 1995-December 15, 1996.
John Hamre— Deputy Secretary of Defense 1997-1999
Peter Janson— President and CEO of ABB (Rumsfeld on Board of Directors) 1990-1999, Renovated Pentagon Wedge 1, Cleared WTC Rubble.
Paul V. Facchina— Facchina Construction renovated Pentagon, Facchina Global Services may have played role in communication problems.
Louis Paul Bremer— Marsh & McLennan, Iraqi Occupation Governor
Brian Michael Jenkins— Rand Corporation, Kroll Associates
Wirt Walker— Stratesec, KuwAm, Bush cousin.
Barry McDaniel— Carlyle Group, Stratesec, BDM
Rudy Giuliani— Mayor of NYC on 9/11, Associate Attorney General during Iran-CONTRA.
Duane Andrews— SAIC, QinetiQ
Porter Goss— Director of Central Intelligence, September 24, 2004 – May 5, 2006.
Happy hunting researchers.
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Ddey65
8 years ago
A huge problem with that book: Not one of the people listed carried out the attacks.
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8 years ago
[deleted]
Tom_Veil
8 years ago
some people living in cave's
Establishing any meaningful dialog with this mentality is futile.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
You said you had better things to do Tom Veil, clearly you don't...
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Ddey65
8 years ago
Contradicting the lies of the so-called "9/11 truth" cults is always a good thing to do. You clearly don't have anything better to do but spread anti-American propaganda.
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Tom_Veil
8 years ago
Oh, I have plenty of time to point & laugh. I just won't bother trying to engage any discussion.
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Ddey65
8 years ago
Your entire list of people you indicted is nothing but BS propaganda by twoofer cult leader Kevin Ryan, that ex-Underwriter Laboratories who lied about testing the steel.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
IThinkImMe,
Yeah I know nothing will change their minds, but it's not about them.
Remember, trolls are very useful tools to get facts out...otherwise I would just be responding to myself, which I would still do but there's usually a lot of trolls around so might as well use them.
For me it is just about getting facts out for any reasonable person that comes along and actually wants to take the time to research 9/11 and all the lies, conflicting accounts and omissions from the government.
Here's some more facts:
"A free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it . . . . [T]here was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place. Everything was not instantaneous." — NIST's lead investigator Shyam Sunder in his "WTC 7 Technical Briefing" of August 26, 2008 <<<That is what NIST said BEFORE they were FORCED to stop lying and had to admit freefall did occur for at least 8 whole stories.
A high school physics teacher confronted NIST about their deception and then NIST admitted:
NCSTAR 1A 3.6 "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity."
That means 8 whole stories of building 7 GAVE NO MORE RESISTANCE THAN AIR! Freefall can only be accomplished with demolition. Fire CANNOT cause freefall. ALL supports have to be cut at the same exact time for freefall to happen. Even known controlled demolitions can't always achieve freefall. There's no rationalizing freefall for any amount of time for building 7.
========
9/11 Commissioner quotes
John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission "At some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened" He also said: "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way they described ... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years... This is not spin. This is not true. This is not spin. This is not true."
-John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission
"It's almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA's New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened"
-John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission
"We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"
-9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer
"I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", "that the commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue"
-9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton
"It is a national scandal", "This investigation is now compromised", "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9/11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up"
-9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned
"We purposely put together a staff that had -in a way- conflicts of interest"
-9/11 Commissioner John Lehman
"There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version...We didn't have access..."
-9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey
The commissioners have ties to the very parties they are "investigating" Like the CIA, banking and financial interests, and Bush administration officials, for example, Phillip Zelikow wrote a book with Condi, Zelikow was also one of the primary authors of NSS 2002.
==========================================
The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan – Lt. General William Odom – noted: Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today’s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world.
Odom also said: By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In ‘78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation.
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Ddey65
8 years ago
No steel melted, but nothing was said "just for insurance purposes," as you claim. Both towers collapsed from where the were hit by the planes, and neither of them collapsed in the same way. And if you had been paying attention to the last timetables two BS messages are posted, you'd realize it was called out as the crock of *beep* that it is.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
Ddey65 said: "No steel melted, but nothing was said "just for insurance purposes"
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I am not saying this, just so you understand Ddey, this quote was from the New York Times:
"The analysis of the collapse is part of thousands of pages of documentation and expert analysis on the trade center attacks that have been produced for the insurance suit. It was undertaken for Mr. Silverstein by Weidlinger Associates, a Manhattan engineering firm that used tools like a computer program called Flex that it developed with the Pentagon to study the blast effects of bombs.
With Flex, engineers recreated the horrific events of Sept. 11, 2001, on a computer, ramming virtual planes into virtual towers. The Flex program let engineers calculate the number of columns instantly severed deep in the interior of each tower."
From: "Expert Report Disputes U.S. On Collapse"
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/22/nyregion/expert-report-disputes-us-on-collapse.html <<<This is not a conspiracy website.
So yes Ddey, the Weidlinger/Silverstein report was for the insurance companies/suit. And is the opposite of what the governments official conspiracy theory says happened.
========================================
Ddey65 said:
"None of those are facts, and those that are have no relevance." And "Reposting lies from twoofer websites doesn't make them true."
----------
Really? No relevance? "twoofer" websites?
The Secretary of Defense did not enter the chain of command until the morning's key events were over. 9/11 Commission Executive Summary http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Exec.htm <<<This is not a conspiracy website. This is a Government website.
The Secretary of Defense doing absolutely nothing for over 30+ minutes knowing it was an attack, even after the building he was in was hit...has no relevance to you?
===============
The June 2001 change in hijacking procedures a few months before 9/11.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060512090527/http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf <<<This is not a conspiracy website.
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There was a gag order placed on workers at ground zero to silence them.
FDNY Under Gag Order Jobs at Stake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrAmyDUjINc <<<This is not a conspiracy website, this is just an interview with a ground zero worker at ground zero, who says on camera that there is a gag order placed on all of them.
===============
FEMA arrived on pier 92 Monday September 10th to setup for Operation Tripod, a Terrorism Drill planned for the 12th.
MTI REPORT 02-06 Saving City Lifelines Lessons Learned in the 9-11 Terrorist Attacks page 15
http://transweb.sjsu.edu/MTIportal/research/publications/documents/Sept11.pdf <<<this is also not a conspiracy website, it is a report from the Mineta Transportation Institute (MTI).
9/11 Rudy Giuliani - FEMA At Pier 92 On Sept 10 For Planned Terror Drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPwwd1NdiU <<< This also is not a conspiracy website, it is video of Rudy Giuliani at the 9/11 Commission Hearings Wednesday, May 19, 2004.
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NIST didn't look at any of the steel of building 7 it had been recycled instead of saving it for the investigations.
"because no steel was recovered from WTC7, it is not possible to make any statements about it's quality" NCSTAR1-3 7.7.2 <<<<< this is also not a conspiracy website....well it's the government approved Official Conspiracy Theory website, It is NIST's website. You know the Government agency run by the Department of Commerce, that came up with 1 of the many conflicting official theories, none of them proven either.
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8 whole stories of building 7 GAVE NO MORE RESISTANCE THAN AIR! Freefall can only be accomplished with demolition. Fire CANNOT cause freefall, ALL supports have to be cut at the same exact time for freefall to happen. Even known controlled demolitions can't always achieve freefall. There's no rationalizing freefall for any amount of time for building 7.
NCSTAR 1A 3.6] "This free fall drop continues for approximately 8 stories, the distance traveled between t=1.75s and t=4.0s...constant, downward acceleration during this time interval. This acceleration was 9.8m/s^2, equivalent to the acceleration of gravity." http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861610 <<< This is a Government website, NIST.
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NIST concealing the information that leads to their conclusions, because for some reason "disclosure of the information might jeopardize the public safety."
http://cryptome.org/wtc-nist-wtc7-no.pdf <<< this is just a copy of a NIST rejection letter to Engineer Ronald Brookman saying "disclosure of the information might jeopardize the public safety."
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Destruction of evidence (WTC steel, ATC tapes and information from the tortured detainees that the 9/11 Commission based their "report")
"Due to the small number of samples, statistical data analysis of the damage features and failure modes would be of little use" 6.4.1 Core Columns page 128 on the pdf file http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire05/PDF/f05130.pdf<<<; This is a Government website.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/us/tape-of-air-traffic-controllers-made-on-9-11-was-destroyed.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07intel.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22217926/ns/politics-white_house/t/cia-destroyed-tapes-despite-court-orders/
http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/jose-rodriguez-and-the-ninety-two-tapes <<<<< These are all mainstream news websites documenting destruction of evidence.
Destruction of evidence is of no relevance to you? Ok moving on...
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What about the US House Committee on Science, March 2002 that said:
"In the month that lapsed between the terrorist attacks and the deployment of the BPAT team, a significant amount of steel debris—including most of the steel from the upper floors—was removed from the rubble pile, cut into smaller sections, and either melted at the recycling plant or shipped out of the U.S. Some of the critical pieces of steel—including the suspension trusses from the top of the towers and the internal support columns—were gone before the first BPAT team member ever reached the site."
-From http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/science/hsy77747.000/hsy77747_0.htm <<< This is a government website.
Most of the steel from the upper floors was removed and recycled or shipped out of the U.S. before any investigators even arrived.
More destruction of evidence, still not relevant, right?
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Peter Jennings Describes 9/11 Wargames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpI9hD23Meg http://911proof.com/9.html <<< Not a conspiracy website, just more mainstream media.
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Bush and Cheney after delaying the start of the investigation for over a year and then only agreeing to appear before the commission on the condition that they: NOT BE UNDER OATH, testify together (not separately as was requested), behind closed doors and the testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by one of the commission staffers and even these notes would not be made public! Total secrecy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9AoaU7LlTk <<< Not a conspiracy website, it's Bush being questioned by reporters.
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Cheney requested Tom Daschle (who was sent anthrax from a US military base) on several occasions limit the scope of the investigation and not to investigate the issue of prior knowledge.
Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle – Opposed passage of the PATRIOT Act and received anthrax letters.
Cheney & Bush Asked Tom Daschle Not To Investigate 9/11 AT ALL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePOIhhd9Jr0 <<< This is not a conspiracy website, this is Tom Daschle at a press conference on Cspan.
https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/CIA.pdf page 26 <<< This is not a conspiracy website. This is a copy of a lot of official documents.
The President and Vice President trying to stop investigations into the biggest attack in U.S. history is certainly not an irrelevant fact.
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9/11 Commission Report was a Commission admittedly "set up to fail" according to the Chairman himself.
The 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0LBARGBupM <<< This is not a conspiracy website, it is video of Statements from 9/11 Commissioners Lee Hamilton & Thomas Kean
====================
Also check out Philip Zelikow, Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission, his college thesis was on the ***"Creation and Maintenance of Public Myths"*** Zelikow basically wrote the 9/11 Commission's myth, he decided what would be seen and what wouldn't be seen. Here is an article he did in 1998, 3 years before the attacks: http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/652/catastrophic_terrorism.html <<<This is not a conspiracy website.
Here are just some of Zelikow's many connections to the Bush White House:
Member of the National Security Council of the Bush I administration.
Aid to National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft under Bush I.
Co-Author of book with Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor for Bush II.
Director of Aspen Strategy Group, to which Rice, Scowcroft, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz belonged.
Member of Clinton to Bush II transition team.
Member of Bush II's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, until being appointed to 9/11 Commission.
And in 2011 Obama appointed Zelikow to the "President's Intelligence Advisory Board.
Now, Phillip Zelikow is a known liar and manipulator and he basically wrote the 9/11 Commission report. And you will just swallow that without question? A fairy tale from a known liar and manipulator like Phillip Zelikow is good enough for you?
===========================
There were many, many conflicts of interest in the 9/11 Commission members.
The conflicts of interest in the 9/11 Commission members and Henry "King of Coverups" Kissinger, a wanted war criminal.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4549161/conflict-interest-philip-zelikow-911-commission <<< Not a conspiracy website.
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/ <<< Not a conspiracy website
Conflicts of interest in any investigation is never irrelevant.
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"U.S. troops would enforce peace under Army study"
By - The Washington Times - Monday, September 10, 2001, 1 day before 9/11 no less, where they say of Israel...."It calls Israel's armed forces a "500-pound gorilla in Israel. Well armed and trained. Operates in both Gaza . Known to disregard international law to accomplish mission. Very unlikely to fire on American forces. Fratricide a concern especially in air space management."
Of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say: "Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act." AKA FALSE FLAG ATTACKS!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2001/sep/10/20010910-025319-6906r/ <<<Not a conspiracy website.
There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself. – Senator -Daniel K. Inouye during the Iran-contra scandal.
Senator Daniel Inouye on the shadow government https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbFphX5zb8w <<< Not a conspiracy website, it is video of Daniel K. Inouye saying the quote.
So what makes you so sure we are not being lied to about 9/11?
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Since you believe the current Official Conspiracy Theory Ddey, please put up links to evidence that Osama or muslims are guilty, besides the government and media saying it...there is NO evidence Osama or muslims had anything to do with 9/11.
*********
Also check FEMA Appendix C, which says: "Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure."
https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf
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Ddey65
8 years ago
NIST didn't look at any of the steel of building 7 it had been recycled instead of saving it for the investigations.
The Tower hit the damn thing. They also hit the Deutsche Bank Building, and the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, so how come you people aren't ranting and raving for an investigation of those?
Of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say: "Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."
That article also mentions the possibility (actually
probability) of REAL Palestinian attacks against the US. "FALSE FLAG" MY ASS!!
So what makes you so sure we are not being lied to about 9/11?
-Osama Bin Laden's admissions.
-Ayman al Zawhiri's admissions.
-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's admissions, which gave details you twoofers love to ignore.
-The 19 hijackers who made martyrdom videos.
-The plane passengers who all described the hijackers as being of vague Arab and/or Muslim descent.
-The evidence the hijackers themselves left behind.
-The video footage of the hijackers at the airports.
-The actual footage of the planes crashing at the sites.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
You forgot to spew your government propaganda lies about the 9/11 commissioner quotes.....
1)-Osama Bin Laden's admissions....which ones, the ones he supposedly admitted or the ones he supposedly denied responsibility?
2)-Ayman al Zawhiri's admissions....because someone trying to take responsibility for something they didn't do to gain notoriety has never happened before, that's unheard of. lol
And Ayman al Zawhiri's own FBI wanted poster makes NO mention of him being wanted for 9/11. https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/ayman-al-zawahiri
3)-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's admissions, which gave details you twoofers love to ignore.... See #2 above, and after being tortured, waterboarded almost 200 times and rectally abused repeatedly, Anyone would confess to anything after all that. KSM would have "admitted" he also killed JFK and Abraham Lincoln to make the torture stop.
4)-The 19 hijackers who made martyrdom videos....oh where they are laughing and joking around....yeah, patsies never take things seriously.
5)-The plane passengers who all described the hijackers as being of vague Arab and/or Muslim descent....You mean like the Israelis who had the cops called on them for dancing and celebrating during 9/11 and were driving an Urban Moving truck with a picture painted on the side of the truck showing the Twin Towers being hit by a plane and the caller said they looked like "Arabs" but they turned out to be Israelis. And no I am not saying Israelis were on any planes....it's called False Flag deception.
6)-The evidence the hijackers themselves left behind.....Ah yes, it was so nice of the supposed hijackers to have all their info neatly tying themselves together and easily found. How convenient for the government.
Also see J. Michael Springmann former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia....another government whistle blower I am sure Ddey thinks is a "twoofer" LMFAO
7)-The video footage of the hijackers at the airports....which one? The one at a checkpoint in Portland, Maine, which was a connecting flight to Boston, they were NOT boarding any 9/11 planes in that footage. And that footage has 2 different timestamps no less. Or the one where the camera is so far away and grainy you can't see $hit?
8)-The actual footage of the planes crashing at the sites...there is NO footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon, just a smoke trail followed by an explosion, that's it.
And for the Towers, see Operation Northwoods which had plans for drones and/or painting aircraft to look like another aircraft. Again Ddey, its called deception.
False Flag attacks aren't about deception, right? Oh I forgot Ddey doesn't think false flags and deception happen anymore....at least not from his beloved, corrupt, lying government. HAHAHA!
You can continue being a good government sheep now Ddey....Any progress on finding any actual evidence in the official government reports?
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Ddey65
8 years ago
The propaganda comes from you twoofers, not the government. Every single point you made is a flat-out lie!!
1)-Osama Bin Laden's admissions....which ones, the ones he supposedly admitted or the ones he supposedly denied responsibility?
The only time he ever denied responsibility is when he attributed the success of the attacks to Allah.
And Ayman al Zawhiri's own FBI wanted poster makes NO mention of him being wanted for 9/11.
1)He's second in command. 2)Just because he and his ex-boss aren't on the FBI's most wanted list for this, doesn't mean the FBI doesn't recognize the fact that they're responsible for 9/11.
3)-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's admissions, which gave details you twoofers love to ignore.... See #2 above, and after being tortured, waterboarded almost 200 times and rectally abused repeatedly,...
That's a total crock of *beep* He was a free man when he told a reporter about how he planned the attacks. He wanted them to be MORE destructive than Osama wanted.
4)-The 19 hijackers who made martyrdom videos....oh where they are laughing and joking around....yeah, patsies never take things seriously.
"Patsies" my ass! You're just using that line to deny their responsibility in the attacks! Ultimately, that's what the SO-CALLED "9/11 truth" cults are really all about.
5)-The plane passengers who all described the hijackers as being of vague Arab and/or Muslim descent....You mean like the Israelis who had the cops called on them
NO, you brainless twoof-tard! Like the ones who were ON THE PLANES, including one who incorrectly described them as being IRANIAN!!
for dancing and celebrating during 9/11 and were driving an Urban Moving truck with a picture painted on the side of the truck showing the Twin Towers being hit by a plane
Didn't happen, *beep* Urban Movers NEVER had any pictures of planes hitting the twin towers!! And none of that has anything to do with the hijackers, no matter what pro-Arab propagandists have told you!
And no I am not saying Israelis were on any planes....it's called False Flag deception.
It's also a total crock of *beep*
6)-The evidence the hijackers themselves left behind.....Ah yes, it was so nice of the supposed hijackers to have all their info neatly tying themselves together and easily found. How convenient for the government.
It's not about convenience, dimwit! It's about making excuses for their atrocities, the same with the martyrdom videos.
Also see J. Michael Springmann former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia....another government whistle blower I am sure Ddey thinks is a "twoofer"
Ahh, yes. The man who claimed that he issued those visas to Mohammed Atta around 1986 or 1987, despite the fact that he never came to the US until 2000.
7)-The video footage of the hijackers at the airports....which one? The one at a checkpoint in Portland, Maine, which was a connecting flight to Boston, they were NOT boarding any 9/11 planes in that footage.
It doesn't matter. The people at the checkpoints in Portland knew they were on their way to Logan. There's also the footage at Dulles that you people love to dismiss.
8)-The actual footage of the planes crashing at the sites...there is NO footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon, just a smoke trail followed by an explosion, that's it.
ANOTHER LIE! You people just want to PRETEND it's not a plane for your cult!
False Flag attacks aren't about deception, right? Oh I forgot Ddey doesn't think false flags and deception happen anymore....
No, you lying enemy propagandist. I
KNOW they didn't happen!!
You can continue being a good government sheep now Ddey
Except that I'm not the sheep, and you twoofers are. You blindly follow the cult leaders without checking the facts.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
Ddey said:
"Wrong! No evidence was destroyed"
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Hoo-boy there's another WHOPPER of a lie from Ddey.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/us/tape-of-air-traffic-controllers-made-on-9-11-was-destroyed.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22217926/ns/politics-white_house/t/cia-destroyed-tapes-despite-court-orders/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07intel.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/jose-rodriguez-and-the-ninety-two-tapes
The US House Committee on Science reported, in March 2002:
"In the month that lapsed between the terrorist attacks and the deployment of the BPAT team, a significant amount of steel debris—including most of the steel from the upper floors—was removed from the rubble pile, cut into smaller sections, and either melted at the recycling plant or shipped out of the U.S. Some of the critical pieces of steel—including the suspension trusses from the top of the towers and the internal support columns—were gone before the first BPAT team member ever reached the site. Fortunately, an NSF-funded independent researcher, recognizing that valuable evidence was being destroyed, attempted to intervene with the City of New York to save the valuable artifacts, but the city was unwilling to suspend the recycling contract. Ultimately, the researcher appealed directly to the recycling plant, which agreed to provide the researcher, and ultimately the ASCE team and the SEAoNY volunteers, access to the remaining steel and a storage area where they could temporarily store important artifacts for additional analysis. Despite this agreement, however, many pieces of steel still managed to escape inspection."
-From http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/science/hsy77747.000/hsy77747_0.htm <<<See the .gov Ddey...that's called a GOVERNMENT website...with a GOVERNMENT document that clearly says valuable and critical pieces of evidence were DESTROYED.
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Alan-Severini-NJ
8 years ago
I disagree, I don't really believe that anyone tried to prevent evidence from being gathered or tested. I've been reading the posts on this message thread and I can think of up to 53 different reasons why I disagree with the stuff people are posting here. I remember 911 like it was yesterday, I was 23 years old at the time, and I can even remember that it was 66 degrees outside that morning when I drove to work. I remember it vividly. Someone I went to high school with had a brother who was 30 years old or maybe more like 33 or 35 years old or something like that, and he died in the attacks, but I think the finger pointing with 911 is just lame. I think the priority after the attacks was simply to clean up the mess and move on so that the city could return to normal and so that people could get back to work. They were in a rush to get the job done but there was nothing sneaky going on. I don't think at the time it was particularly important to gather pieces of debris from the collapse of the buildings when everyone saw the planes hit the buildings. If the buildings had been taken down by bombs and not planes, they would have meticulously collected as much evidence as possible to test it, but because planes hit the buildings I don't think anyone really cared one way or another. 30 years from now people are going to be saying the same things about the 911 attacks, people just need to move on. The debate is getting to be a bit lame. People have been saying the same things over and over again, and they'll be saying the same thing 50 years from now, but they have to move on.
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justabox-08477
8 years ago
Alan said: "They were in a rush to get the job done but there was nothing sneaky going on."
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Government sheep would believe that lie Alan.
But many people, including 9/11 Commissioners, disagree with you.
9/11 Commissioner quotes
John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission "At some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened" He also said: "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way they described ... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years... This is not spin. This is not true. This is not spin. This is not true."
-John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission
"It's almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA's New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened"
-John Farmer Senior counsel, 9/11 Commission
"We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"
-9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer
"I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", "that the commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue"
-9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton
"It is a national scandal", "This investigation is now compromised", "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9/11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up"
-9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned
"We purposely put together a staff that had -in a way- conflicts of interest"
-9/11 Commissioner John Lehman
"There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version...We didn't have access..."
-9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey
Even the Commissioners don't believe the Official Conspiracy Theory that is fed to the public.
The Commissioners also have ties to the very parties they were supposed to be investigating. Like the CIA, military, banking and financial interests and Bush administration officials...this is also known as conflicts of interest.
Just one example is Phillip Zelikow, who was the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Zelikow decided what evidence would be seen or not seen. It is a joke to say the Commission was independent in any way.
Here's just some of Phillip Zelikow's many connections to the Bush White House:
Member of the National Security Council of the Bush I administration
Aid to National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft under Bush I
Co-Author of book with Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor for Bush II
Director of Aspen Strategy Group, to which Rice, Scowcroft, Dick Cheney and
Paul Wolfowitz belonged
Member of Clinton to Bush II transition team
Member of Bush II's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, until being appointed to 9/11 Commission
And in 2011 Phillip Zelikow went to work for Obama creating and maintaining public myths for the government sheep.
And they continued to DESTROY evidence even after many people tried to stop them.
They destroyed the steel from the upper floors before any investigators even arrived.
There were interviews made at the FAA's New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed.
The CIA also destroyed their torture tapes, with supposed "confessions" even after they were told NOT to destroy them.
And the 9/11 Commission even says they relied heavily on these tortured detainees and supposed "confessions" to create their myth of 9/11.
Yeah, nothing sneaky going on. HAHAHA
Alan, if you want to turn a blind eye to the mountains of problems with the Official Conspiracy Theory/Myth of 9/11, like: massive conflicts of interest, many conflicting stories, omissions, propaganda and out right lies told by the government and corporate/CIA owned media, then that's your bad choice.
But more and more people don't believe the lies from the corporate/CIA owned media and known liars in government or their little blind government sheep who only deny, deflect, rationalize or just lie to try to stop any questioning of the official b.s. storyline.
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Alan said: "I can think of up to 53 different reasons why I disagree with the stuff people are posting here."
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Please post all 53 for everyone to see and decide for themselves Alan.
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Conspiracy theorist - people ridiculed for questioning the statements of known liars.
A “conspiracy theory” no longer means an event explained by a conspiracy. Instead, it now means any explanation, or even a fact, that is out of step with the government’s explanation and that of its corporate and CIA owned media pimps.
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Ddey65
8 years ago
There's no such thing as "the official conspiracy theory." That's just a buzzword used by REAL conspiracy theory crackpots like you. There's also no "CIA owned media," and when it comes to the 9/11 attacks, the liars are all in the SO-CALLED "9/11 truth" cults.
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