2 Different DERN'S have 2 DIFFERENT scenes with MR. K - Inland Empire (2007) Discussion

[–] Garmonbozia8 12 years ago

On the LOCOMOTION topic we discussed how there are 2 DIFFERENT SCENES in IE where DERN says 2 different things to MR. K:

1. IN one VERSION she says she is SHACKING UP

2. IN the OTHER VERSION she mentions HER HUSBAND.

The reason this is a false assumption is simple. The first time we hear Dern say "There was a man I once knew" she talks about the guy planning something with her in mind, and then tells the rape story. That means that the SECOND time we hear her say "There was a man I once knew," if indeed she is now telling a different story from the last time, then the new story would replace the "planning something" story and the rape story, NOT the crowbar story---which was told at a very different time. Do you understand now?

Now, if indeed there are two Dern's visiting Mr. K, your idea that one knows who the woman trying to kill her is, while the other Dern doesn't know, does not make sense either. Why? B/c NEITHER Dern ever talks about this woman. BOTH times we hear Dern say "I don't really understand what I'm doing here" therefore it makes no sense to say that one Dern DOES understand. Right?

Also, there's the fact that both times Dern goes up the stairs to see Mr. K for the first time, we see Karolina's arm pointing. Doesn't this imply that her reason for going to see Mr. K is the same both times? She got scared, goes to see Karolina, and Karolina points her in the direction of where she needs to go to get help. Dern says to Mr K "I was told you can help me." The person who told her this must be Karolina, that is why Karolina whispers in her ear and then points. Dern is led to Mr. K's by Karolina BOTH times.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

OK here's the problem ...

one that you may also NOT HAVE NOTICED before:

IN THE 1ST SCENE with MR. K at the 1:21 TIME MARK ...

as she CLIMBS up the STAIRS ...

before she arrives inside of his office ...

please also note how we see the SNOWY STREET of POLAND through the WINDOW behind her ...

as she CLIMBS the STAIRS to see MR. K and then says :

I don't really understand what I'm doing here

That's one hell of a climb getting up here

So I was told you could help me

PLEASE also NOTE this:

DERN also wears the SAME BEIGE SHOES that we see LOST GIRL wearing when she HANDS the MONEY to the PHANTOM for the WATCH she BUYS in MTTH.

***********************************

[b]PART TWO or the 2ND SCENE at the 2:15 TIME FRAME:

THERE was this man I once knew

I'm trying to tell you so's you know how it went

The thing is I don't know what was before or after

I don't know which happened first and it's kinda laid a MIND FK on me

MY HUSBAND he was HIDING SOMETHING

ACTING all WEIRD the night before he left

TALKING FOREIGN TALK and telling LOUD FKing stories ...

BECAUSE THIS IS probably also HIS EVIL TWIN COPY ...

which is probably also why he says:

I'M NOT WHO YOU THINK I AM

AS HE also BEATS her as BRUTALLY as THE PHANTOM did LOST GIRL.

So if you wanna discuss something that MAKES NO SENSE ...

or EVEN LESS SENSE ...

TELL ME how the FKing HELL does DERN get from the WALK of FAME in SUNNY WARM LA ...

to THE SNOW FILLED STREET of POLAND that we see BEHIND her in that WINDOW AS SHE CLIMBS those STAIRS to see MR. K ...

after she ENTERS that CLUB in LA???

AND WHY is she also WEARING LOST GIRL'S SHOES???

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[–] Garmonbozia8 12 years ago

So if you wanna discuss something that MAKES NO SENSE ...

or EVEN LESS SENSE ...

TELL ME how the FKing HELL does DERN get from the WALK of FAME in SUNNY WARM LA ...

to THE SNOW FILLED STREET of POLAND that we see BEHIND her in that WINDOW AS SHE CLIMBS those STAIRS to see MR. K ...

after she ENTERS that CLUB in LA???

Another cute little straw man. I say one of your points doesn't make sense, and you try to justify the point by saying impossible things happen in the film. I don't see what this has to do with my argument in my previous post, but it certainly does not counter it. Also just to clarify something, I don't mind the idea that two different Derns speak to Mr. K. I'm just trying to point out to you that the proof you're using isn't quite right. If the story changes the second time, the story that's being replaced is NOT the crowbar story, it would be the rape story. That's all I'm trying to say. So in other words I'm not trying to disprove the entire idea.

AND WHY is she also WEARING LOST GIRL'S SHOES???

This is why I personally choose not to give too much credence to the DELETED SCENES. The 3 hour film itself is confusing enough as it is. Why complicate your life by adding in deleted scenes that we cannot even know where they would have been placed in terms of the films sequencing? I do really, really love the scenes, but it's my choice not to allow them to have too much of an affect on my interpretations of the feature film.

ALTHOUGH, if Dern is indeed wearing LG's shoes, that would fit well with my idea that MAYBE Dern represents LG in a blonde wig. :P

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

In case you haven't noticed ... this is MY TOPIC ... and now you are also the one who tries to DICTATE what should be discussed on it ...

by SCOLDING the PERSON who began the TOPIC ...

for NOT STICKING to the TOPIC they started???

THE TOPIC is how we have 2 DIFFERENT DERNS TALKING to MR. K in 2 DIFFERENT SCENES.

AND ...

Since WHAT'S BEING said to MR. K also KEEPS GETTING in the WAY of our having a RATIONAL DISCUSSION, that's why the SUGGESTION was made to try another DIFFERENT APPROACH to helping you understand the SITUATION better.

And this attempt to help you also has NOTHING to do with any STRAW MAN.

This STRAW man ACCUSATION is something you use each time something is presented to you that CHALLENGES what you've said.

AS for the CROWBAR ...

PLEASE ALSO NOTE THIS:

IN the scene where we see LUCAS BRUTALLY BEATING DERN ...

not only is there NO CROW BAR ...

OR SHATTERED or SPLINTERED DOOR that she also says was hit with the CROW BAR ...

but she's also wearing that SAME PEACH COLORED SLIP or NIGHT GOWN that we saw her wearing when she GETS out of bed and tries to call BILLY but the PHONE CALL gets SENT to the RABBIT ROOM where JACK RABBIT picks it up.

SO ...

when we LISTEN to the STORY about the CROW BAR ...

and about how she CAME HOME and finds the GUY SHE'S SHACKING UP with waiting for her with it ...

THAT STORY also DOES NOT MATCH what we see happening in this SECOND VERSION ...

due to the way in which DERN talks about HER HUSBAND ...

and she is also wearing her NIGHT GOWN or the PEACH COLORED slip that we see her wearing when she GETS OUT of BED to call BILLY.

So we also know this story where she's BRUTALLY BEATEN ...

by the CHARACTER who tells her HE'S NOT WHO SHE THINKS HE IS ...

also doesn't MATCH or CORRESPOND to the other story about how she COMES HOME when she's attacked with the CROW BAR that SHATTERS the DOOR ...

because she also would NOT be wearing HER NIGHT CLOTHES when she COMES HOME.

Would she????

IN other words ...

once again it also LOOKS like we have still more PROOF that MR. K speaks to 2 DIFFERENT DERNS.

But IF you don't happen to see it that way that's also fine as well.

PLEASE also feel FREE to see things any way you like.

AND PLEASE also NOTE THIS:

DERN WEARING the SHOES of LOST GIRL also fits in well with MY INTERPETATION that LOST GIRL also INHABITS the BODY of DERN ...

even BEFORE the DEATH SCENE ...

where the character who WAKES UP on the FAKE TWIN COPY of the WALK of FAME also refuses to ACKNOWLEDGE that she's NIKI to KINGSLEY ...

when he calls her by the name NIKI.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

Ok. Now back to what you said before that also MADE NO SENSE to me:

The first time we hear Dern say "There was a man I once knew" she talks about the guy planning something with her in mind, and then tells the rape story. That means that the SECOND time we hear her say "There was a man I once knew," if indeed she is now telling a different story from the last time, then the new story would replace the "planning something" story and the rape story, NOT the crowbar story---which was told at a very different time. Do you understand now?

Sorry G, but NO still don't understand what you mean.

Since the CROW BAR STORY is REPLACED by another different story ...

(one where she's attacked by a GUY with a CROW BAR that SHE SHACKS UP WITH)

vs

(ANOTHER DIFFERENT one where she's BRUTALLY BEATEN by her HUSBAND who catches her getting out of bed and CALLING BILLY in the MIDDLE of the night)

what does this mean???

After the situation has been explained to you ... and the WINDOW on the STAIRS in POLAND has been pointed out to you ...

and its also been explained to you how THE CROW BAR scene is NOT the SAME SCENE that we see where DERN gets BEATEN UP in her PEACH COLORED NIGHT GOWN ...

do you now see the reasons why one doesn't see what you see???

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[–] Garmonbozia8 12 years ago

Oh and I have further proof to support my idea that the second time we hear Dern say "there was this man i once knew" the film then SKIPS over the stories we've already heard in order to get to the end of her story. It's b/c of the phone call. Doesn't Mr. K point out that Dern has been in his office for SOME TIME now? I'm pretty sure he does... and that would then support my idea that the story about not knowing what happened first and her husband acting weird one night, and finally about her son dying, would then be the last thing she tells Mr. K, and occurs after all her previous stories. B/c if these stories are supposed to be told right after she JUST ARRIVES in Mr. K's room and says there was a man she once knew, then it wouldn't make sense for Mr K to say she had been there for a while... right?

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

Doesn't Mr. K point out that Dern has been in his office for SOME TIME now? I'm pretty sure he does... and that would then support my idea that the story about not knowing what happened first and her husband acting weird one night, and finally about her son dying, would then be the last thing she tells Mr. K, and occurs after all her previous stories. B/c if these stories are supposed to be told right after she JUST ARRIVES in Mr. K's room and says there was a man she once knew, then it wouldn't make sense for Mr K to say she had been there for a while... right?

HERE'S the other problem:

The
FIRST SCENE also has the woman show DERN the GREEN EXIT sign BEFORE she shows her the WAY to the STAIRS.

And then we see the SNOWY STREET of POLAND BEHIND her in the WINDOW as she CLIMBS the STAIRS ...

BUT then we also see DERN LEAVE and use that GREEN EXIT ...

which also takes her BACK into the WARM STREET of LA again ...

and BACK to the WALK of FAME in HOLLYWOOD.

SO NEVER mind the CONVERSATION with MR. K or HOW LONG she was there inside of his room.

LET's CONCENTRATE on WHERE SHE IS and how she gets from LA to POLAND and then BACK AGAIN by going up those STAIRS ...

and ON WHY she's also wears LOST GIRL'S SHOES.

STILL ANOTHER thing TO KEEP in MIND is how BERNY ... who also pointed out how the WINDOW shows the SNOWY STREET in POLAND ... also thinks ONE COPY of DERN may have CALLED MR. K on his phone while he has the OTHER TWIN COPY sitting there INSIDE of his ROOM.

AND that may also be the REASON why this other COPY of DERN LEAVES before MR. K finished his PHONE CALL???

Because we also see ONE COPY of DERN who keeps trying to make a PHONE CALL while the other hooker is using it???

AND ...

maybe that's also the reason why we hear ONE COPY of DERN TELLING MR. K the story about CRIMP ...

because that IS CRIMP who sits there INSIDE of DERN'S BODY???

And ...

maybe he also GETS INSIDE of it when DERN BUYS that WATCH from the SECOND VISITOR who arrives wearing it on her arm with a SOCK or something to PROTECT her from the EFFECTS of touching it???

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[–] Garmonbozia8 12 years ago

HERE'S the other problem:

The
FIRST SCENE also has the woman show DERN the GREEN EXIT sign BEFORE she shows her the WAY to the STAIRS.

And then we see the SNOWY STREET of POLAND BEHIND her in the WINDOW as she CLIMBS the STAIRS ...

BUT then we also see DERN LEAVE and use that GREEN EXIT ...

which also takes her BACK into the WARM STREET of LA again ...

and BACK to the WALK of FAME in HOLLYWOOD.

Here's yet another problem. There is something really weird about this part of the film. Have you ever noticed that the door with the green exit sign above it is just one single door with horizontal blinds (covering a window?), and it's closed, while the door that Dern walks out of, which we also see through them when Dern frist comes into this room with Karolina, are two double doors that are already open, with no horizontal blinds on them :O.... So when Karolina points Dern toward this door, and we see it from the INSIDE, it's a single, closed door. But from the OUTSIDE, there are two doors, already wide opened. Weird, huh?

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

No didn't notice the DOORS and that is WEIRD ...

but so are MOST other things we see happening ...

which is also what makes watching IE so FACINATING and FUN ...

is the way in which one can constantly see something they haven't seen or noticed before each time one watches it.

Anyhow, we also KNOW that scene in the HALLWAY LEADING UP THOSE STAIRS was most likely filmed ON LOCATION in POLAND.

RIGHT?

Because we also see DERN is actually there IN THE DOCUMENTARY ...

where we see her speaking to LYNCH about the other girls in the SUV ...

and HOW LONG they'll be able to stand OUTSIDE in the FREEZING COLD WEATHER in their SUMMER TIME LA CLOTHING?

So we also KNOW how that WINDOW SCENE really got there.

RIGHT?

But HOW does it being there TIE in with WHAT we see happening in the AXXON N STORY???

AND WHY do we also see another AXXON N DOOR located on the WALK of FAME in HOLLYWOOD?

What's it doing there?

How did it get there???

Besides for someone using some WHITE CHAUK to write that on the door???

IE has definitely got to be the BEST MIND FK ever when it comes to making a FILM.

RIGHT G???

Ok. Now back to what you said before that also MADE NO SENSE to me:

The first time we hear Dern say "There was a man I once knew" she talks about the guy planning something with her in mind, and then tells the rape story. That means that the SECOND time we hear her say "There was a man I once knew," if indeed she is now telling a different story from the last time, then the new story would replace the "planning something" story and the rape story, NOT the crowbar story---which was told at a very different time. Do you understand now?

Sorry G, but NO still don't understand what you mean.

After the situation has been explained to you ... and the WINDOW on the STAIRS in POLAND has been pointed out to you ... and its also been explained to you how THE CROW BAR scene is NOT the SAME SCENE that we see where DERN gets BEATEN UP in her PEACH COLORED NIGHT GOWN ... do you see the reasons why one doesn't see what you see???

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] el-9984 12 years ago

It's tough to catch but it's a double door looking out as well. The same doorway she walks out of and we see earlier looking in. The shot was filmed at the rear side door of Avalon. The vertical slats are from a fence across the alleyway, and can be seen on Dern's left as she walks back toward the street.

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[–] Garmonbozia8 12 years ago

It's tough to catch but it's a double door looking out as well. The same doorway she walks out of and we see earlier looking in. The shot was filmed at the rear side door of Avalon. The vertical slats are from a fence across the alleyway, and can be seen on Dern's left as she walks back toward the street.

*gasp* Wow you're right... what I thought was a closed door with blinds is an open door and the alley wall. :O Wow, really nice catch. I would have never noticed that.

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[–] el-9984 12 years ago

Thanks. A long time ago I did a step-by-step analysis of all the Downtown LA scenes beginning with Sue passing the Axxon N dorway across the street from her double, and ending with the death scene with the homeless folks. I pegged all of the actual locations, and if I have time over this long weekend I'll dig it up dust it off and post it. Some of the stuff goes a long way in describing the "two Sues" situation, and what may be happening in Mr. K's office too. I'll just add one quick point. Although I'm still more or less in the "One Sue in Mr. K's office" camp, I think XXPO's observation about how Mr. K's Sue is no longer terrified by whoever was following her is a good one, and I don't think you really addressed the point directly. Sue's behavior is strange in that she never even mentions this stalker, or her reason for needing help. Not a peep. Instead she plops herself down and starts going on with stories about all sorts of other stuff. Remember how you and I discussed the topic of "Rita's fear" in MD and how this fear was a defining, but little discussed, aspect of her personality. It's kind of the same thing with Sue and the chase around Hollywood Blvd, only here the immediate fear seems to have vanished. Why?

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

XXPO's observation about how Mr. K's Sue is no longer terrified by whoever was following her is a good one, and I don't think you really addressed the point directly. Sue's behavior is strange in that she never even mentions this stalker, or her reason for needing help. Not a peep. Instead she plops herself down and starts going on with stories about all sorts of other stuff.

THANKS EL,

It was BERNY who came up with the 2 DERNS talk to MR. K IDEA.

BERNY also lived in the AREA and he also went there and did a STEP by STEP analysis of the scenes, but the problems he found was how many of the BUSINESSES that were located there during FILMING were no longer there anymore.

So that also presents one with problems if one attempts to try to figure out where the 2 TWIN COPIES OF DERN were that way.

The MARKET, for example, where she dies is no longer there anymore.

Too bad you weren't still here when BERNY was also still around.

You two would probably have a great time comparing your notes with each other.

Anyhow also found a place that has many parts of the TRANSCRIPTS posted.

So here's DERN'S MONOLOGUES which also include some comments from the person who posted them to their website:

FIRST MONOLOGUE:

SUE
I don’t really understand what I’m doing here. That’s one hell of a *beep* climb getting up here. So I was told you can help me. I guess I’ll just tell you the thing. I’m just gonna catch my breath. There was this man…I once knew. His name was…it doesn’t matter what his name was. A lot of guys change. They don’t change, but they reveal. In time, they reveal what they really are. You know what I mean? It’s an old story. Well, this guy…he revealed something. Looking back on it…all along it was being revealed. He was planning something. Planning something with me in mind. When I get mad, I really get mad. I gouged a man’s out when I was fifteen once. He was trying to rape me. I mean, the *beep* had it out. He was pushing my legs apart. I got a finger in his eye socket. Pretty quick, rape was a long way off his mind. He was crying and screaming like a baby. “What a *beep* man you are,” I said. There was goo. But he could still see me with the one eye…see me coming at him…grabbing his nuts and tearing at ‘em. He seen that, all right, and felt it, too. He was screamin’ and wailin’ like a little baby, sittin’ in the corner and crying…moaning and hugging his nuts till the ambulance come. The ambulance guys…they say, “What the *beep* happened here?” I say, “He come to a reaping what he been sowing, that’s what.” They say, *beep* been sowing some kind of heavy *beep*

MONOLOGUE #2

SUE
Seen a guy come at me with a crowbar once. Guess he figured I was two-timing him. I was coming home, we were shacked up at the time. He was waiting for me in the half-light. Waiting for me to come home. Guess he had worked himself into some kind of frenzy. I open the *beep* door…and I see this *beep* shape burst out of the chair…and a crowbar going up. I scream, and turn. *beep* crowbar comes down, smashing in that *beep* door, cheap piece of *beep* It just splinters into a thousand pieces, like it was glass, *beep* flying everywhere. I don’t take this kind of behavior. I see what this *beep* was up to. BAM! I kick him in the nuts so hard he go crawling up inside his brain for a refuge. He goes down like a two dollar whore. Crying and *beep* telling me he’s done nothing but love me and *beep*

INTERROGATOR or MR. K:

Were you in fact seeing another man?

SUE
I screwed a couple guys for drinks, no big deal. This one guy was kinda cute. *beep* had a dick like a rhinoceros. He’d *beep* the *beep* out of you, I tell you what. He’d buy me a couple of drinks after. We’d talk, he’d tell me about the town he grew up in. All the little girls he *beep* There was a chemical factory in this town, and he’d tell me it was putting so much *beep* in the air you couldn’t think straight. It got to a lot of the people. There was a lot of crazy *beep* going on there. People having weird dreams, seeing things that wasn’t there. This one time, this one little girl. She was staring off at something one time. Starts screaming. The people hanging round come to her and ask what’s wrong, and uh, she says she sees the end of the world. All fire and smoke and blood running. You know, like they say, the wailing and the gnashing of the teeth.

MONOLOGUE#3

SUE
*beep* went to some Eastern European *beep* With the *beep* circus. Can you *beep* believe that? That circus. Talk about carnies. Carnies, gypsies, con men, you name it. A real *beep* ball of *beep* There was this guy they had working there. He’d start talking. You know, real regular. Talking up the crowd. They’d start listening. Pushing in closer. He did some sort of thing on people. They all called him “the Phantom”. He got into a barroom fight one night. All the bar was arrested. A lot of them *beep* circus clowns. So when they take them all down to the station? Guess what? The Phantom’s done gone and disappeared. This is the kind of *beep* I’m talking about. He was a marine from North Carolina. He had a sister with one leg. She had a sorta car stick for the other one. She killed three kids in the first grade. This is the kind of *beep* funny. People. They all got their own peculiarities. Their own way of living.

COMMENT:

The Phantom, who may be able to change his outward form, has taken on the appearance of a North Carolina marine.

MONOLOGUE#4

SUE
It was a funny name…they was called “Krimp”.

A DELETED MONOLOGUE FRAGMENT ON THE LAMP

I got a lamp. I keep it by my bed. It’s my sister’s bed, but the lamp is mine. Same damn lamp’s always been with me. It’s my sister’s bed, but my lamp. I won’t go anywhere without that lamp. It’s a lamp from my family. On my momma’s side. She was the one who changed it to the red shade it’s got now. It was a floral pattern one before. I seen a picture of it. It had that floral pattern shade. Picture was black and white, so I couldn’t see the actual color of it. Picture was really weird. It had a…man’s hairy arm on the edge of the picture. It was sorta coming in on the side. I asked my momma…if that was my daddy’s arm in the picture. She said, no, dear, that ain’t your daddy there. I asked, who is it then? She said, it’s none of your business. Why wouldn’t she just tell me it was my daddy? I would have forgotten all about it. This way, I keep wondering who the *beep* it was hanging around our house. It could have been anybody. Sorta makes you wonder.

comment:

This is the previously mentioned lamp that occasionally flashes with sinister light.

MONOLOGUE#5

SUE
There was this man I once knew. I’m trying to tell you so you’ll understand how it went. The thing is, I don’t know what was before or after. I don’t know what happened first. And it’s kinda laid a mind-*beep* on me. My husband…he’s *beep* hiding something. He was acting all *beep* weird one night before he left…he was talking this foreign talk…and telling loud *beep* stories…
(intercut with her being beaten by her husband)
SUE
Like this, his face all red. His eyes bugging out. I figured one day I’d wake up and figure out just what yesterday was all about. I’m not too keen about thinking about tomorrow. Today’s slipping by. I guess after my son died…I went into a bad time…when I was watching everything go round me while I was standing in the middle. Watching it…like in a dark theater, before they bring the lights up. I’m sitting there…wondering, how can this be?

INTERROGATOR or MR K on the PHONE:

Hello? Yeah? She’s still here. I don’t think it will be too much longer. Yeah. The horse to the well. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. He’s around here someplace. That’s for sure. Czerwone time.

Comment:

It won’t be much longer until the confrontation with the Phantom. “The horse to the well”: the trap they’ve set. “He’s around here someplace”, the Phantom is nearby. “Czerwone” is polish for red. Red time might be Phantom time or blood time.
After this, Sue flees to the street where she is stabbed by Doris.

QUESTION:

IS THE PHANTOM inside of the TWIN COPY of DERN that was sitting there talking to MR. K???

JANE RABBIT
I’m going to find out one day.
SUZIE RABBIT
When will you tell him?
JACK RABBIT
Who could have known?
SUZIE RABBIT
What time is it? (laughter)
JACK RABBIT
I have a secret.
JANE RABBIT
There has been no calls today. (laughter)
JACK RABBIT
I hear something. (SUZIE RABBIT laughs)
JANE RABBIT
I do not think it will be much longer now.

AND INTO the RABBIT ROOM WALKS DERN ...

BACKWARDS ...

LIKE she also does in the FRONT YARD area of SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

SO the RABBITS have also BEEN HERE/and DONE THIS BEFORE as well.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

Here's the LOST GIRL SCENES with the LAST ONE that parallels the OTHER one where WE SEE DERN being BEATEN:

PHANTOM’S WIFE
Hey, look at me…and tell me if you’ve known me before.

Comment:

The Phantom, who is either in the form of the other woman’s husband, or her actual husband, runs into her on the street. They used to be husband and wife: “I’m used to seeing you in our home”. She works as a prostitute, she is “out in the street, at night”. That the Phantom might only be in the form of her husband is there in the line “I think you don’t recognize me…my manner…”; his outward appearance is the same, but his behaviour is very different. The killings have already taken place, one of the dead being Piotrek, the man she was having an affair with: “I’ve seen the two of you together.”

THE PHANTOM
I almost didn’t recognize you.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
You startled me.
THE PHANTOM
Strange…to find you on the street.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
You seem upset…Are you?
THE PHANTOM
Should I be?
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
No, but…
THE PHANTOM
So I shouldn’t be?
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
No…but still you seem so…
THE PHANTOM
I think you don’t recognize me…my manner…
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
That’s true. You seem different.
THE PHANTOM
You too. I’m used to seeing you in our home…not on the street…at night.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
Me too.
THE PHANTOM
There was a murder…
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
How awful. Where?
THE PHANTOM
Just down the way. I think…you knew the person.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
Who was it?
THE PHANTOM
Don’t know the name…but I have seen you with this person.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
You have?
THE PHANTOM
I have. I think…I’ve seen the two of you together.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
That’s awful.

THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
I didn’t mean anything by that. I just asked a question.
THE PHANTOM
Why did you ask if it means nothing? Whatever you want is that it?
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
No. Whatever you want?
THE PHANTOM
Oh…now it’s me.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
Always you.
THE PHANTOM
You can lie to me, but don’t lie to yourself. So sly…
He pushes her.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
Don’t push me.
THE PHANTOM
I’ll push you to hell.
THE PHANTOM’S WIFE
Stop it!

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] el-9984 12 years ago

Yeah, I'm not too stuck one way or the other on their marital status....although if they were husband and wife it would mirror the two couple situation in OHiBT.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] el-9984 12 years ago

Thanks for posting the monlogues. It's nice to have them all in one place.

The commenter says:
She works as a prostitute, she is “out in the street, at night”.

No, She's not a prostitute yet. She's still in the midst of her affair with Mustach Man probably as his kept woman set up somewhere. She ends up on the streets in the calamatous aftermath of Mustache Man's killing (which she finds out about that night). In this scene there seems to be a purpose in her stride. She's going somewhere. We see later how the Polish prostitutes work: they stand around in groups.

Also,
The placement, by whomever made these "trascripts", of the deleted monologue on the lamp is completely a matter of conjecture. We have no way of knowing where the MTTH monologes, and the hidden "escape from prison" monologue, might have been placed within the sequence.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

Your welcome for the MONOLOGUES.

Keep trying to find the place where BERNY said he'd DOWNLOADED the IE TRANSCRIPTS but can't find it.

Berny had sent them to me in a PM but lost them when the other computer died.

The person who posted the MONOLOGUES also claims LOST GIRL is KILLED when she's BEATEN, which also contradicts what else they've said about her being a prostitute. Because if she's dead them how can she walk the streets?

LYNCH is also about to be the FATHER of another BABY GIRL again this time at age 66. Since The baby is due this month, and it's the last day of the month she should also be arriving sometime pretty soon.

It's also ODD how he NEVER even mentions that he's expecting her in his TWEETS.

Yet he's also registered at some kind of a fancy place so that they can get baby gifts sent to them like one also registers at a place when one gets married so they can have gifts sent to them???

And this is also what else the other website with the MONOLOGUES says about how we seem to have 2 DIFFERENT TWIN COPIES of DERN who talk to MR. K:

That she says one of the first lines in such a cruel, mocking way is perhaps because this figure is Sue with only her base, malicious qualities, all the traits the Phantom exploits in others to do his nasty work, whether it be Sue’s malevolence, the murderous envy of Doris, or the controlling rage of Piotrek.

This is a movie of one set of doubles already, prim Nikki and vulgar Sue, now with another doppelganger brought in, a Sue that is not simply used to a coarse, difficult life, but one that is a dangerous lunatic. It is this Sue, who, in her former life as the Lost Girl committed murder before killing herself.

We are shown this Sue with the prostitutes, then given the original Sue walking down the other side of the street, before she sees her disturbed mirror image, and does, forgive me, a double take:

This is an echo of an earlier moment, when Sue sees an early vision of this very double, and has a similar fearful reaction

(And here we also see a photo of the EVIL CLOWN GRIN DERN gives the other DERN when she walks up the DARK PATHWAY in the SPOTLIGHT).

In this part they also claim MR. K is JACK RABBIT in HUMAN FORM:

Sue flees Doris, and ends up at a room at the top of a long flight of stairs where she speaks of her life with Mr. K, the Jack Rabbit in human form.

We’re given the starkest vision of her life so far.

Though these monologues are interspersed throughout the film, I place them all here. As the wounds from her beating are visible in every monologue, I put every one at this point, after the assault.

As said before, the Sue who speaks here is a far cruder, tougher woman than we see at any point in the film. Her accent is far more country than the Sue of Blue Tomorrows or of the Smitty house

SO they also point how the 2 DIFFERENT TWIN COPIES OF DERN also use a different ACCENT when they SPEAK to MR. K.

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[–] el-9984 12 years ago

I've been to LA a bunch of times for work and visiting friends and family and actually that area hasn't changed too much with the exception of the burning down of the Basque club on the corner of Hollywood and Vine…it was in front of the Basque, near the Cave Club (which is still there I think!), where Sue died, right next to the Walk of Fame star of Joan Blondell.

There was never a market on that block. The sign "Star Market" was a prop.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

Thanks for letting us know the STAR MARKET is/was a PROP.

That's also really cool that you've been there and STUDIED the area the way you have.

IT'S ALSO A SHAME that you never met BERNY so that the 2 of you could have had a FINE TIME comparing the NOTES you'd made of the AREA.

BERNY also described where ONE TWIN COPY of DERN walks and where the other one walks.

Were you also able to figure out that part as well???

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 12 years ago

HERE are more COPIES of the TRANSCRIPTS at the website.

This part also parallels the way DERN'S HUSBAND says he can't have kids ...

but this time it's also the other woman who says this to the MUSTASH MAN VERSION of LUCAS ...

and it's probably also the MYSTERY WOMAN in WHITE and NOT LOST GIRL who says she can't have kids:

DETECTIVE HUTCHINSON
Take a seat. What’s this all about?
DORIS
I’ve been hypnotized or something.
HUTCHINSON
Hypnotized?
DORIS
I’ve got a…I’m gonna kill someone.
HUTCHINSON
Oh yeah? Who ya gonna kill?
DORIS
I don’t know.
HUTCHINSON
Who hypnotized you?
DORIS
I saw him looking at me once…when I looked around the bar. He then moved his hands and he said I would know who it was.
HUTCHINSON
How are you gonna kill this person?
DORIS
With a screwdriver.

------------------------

LOST GIRL
I can’t give you children. I know that…Are you listening to me?
PIOTREK
I’m going out now.
LOST GIRL
I'm im not who you think I am!

I’ll never let you have her! Never…

**********************

SO ...

IF SHE'S NOT WHO WE THINK SHE IS ...

THEN WHO IS SHE???

PLEASE ALSO NOTE HOW WE ALSO HAVE AN INVERTED SITUATION ...

or a ROLE REVERSAL ...

in the 47 VERSION of the GERMAN VERSION of the AXXON N STORY.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 9 years ago

The METAL door she exits from also matches the other AXXON N DOOR in back of STAGE 4.

BOTH are sets of DOUBLE DOORS.

And one of them is also closed when she enters the other one in the back alley of STAGE 4.

So apparently the DOOR to the CLUB she exits from is also the same door we see her looking at from the OUTSIDE that has the AXXON N WRITING on it on the Walk of Fame.

But since the doors are open as she exits from the club we don't see the AXXON N writing on them.

🐇 🐰

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[–] xxpo 9 years ago

The METAL door she exits from also matches the other AXXON N DOOR in back of STAGE 4.

BOTH are sets of DOUBLE DOORS.

And one of them is also closed when she enters the other one in the back alley of STAGE 4.

So apparently the DOOR to the CLUB she exits from is also the same door we see her looking at from the OUTSIDE that has the AXXON N WRITING on it on the Walk of Fame.

But since the doors are open as she exits from the club we don't see the AXXON N writing on them.

So ...

not only does the CLUB have an AXXON N DOOR ...

but it also has RED CURTAINS in it ...

like the one's we see inside of THE LODGE in TWIN PEAKS.

And we also see them as she EXITS from the DOOR.

Is this an indication that THE CLUB is a SUPERNATURAL place???

🐇 🐰

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[–] xxpo 8 years ago

not only does the CLUB have an AXXON N DOOR ...

but it also has RED CURTAINS in it ...

like the one's we see inside of THE LODGE in TWIN PEAKS.

And we also see them as she EXITS from the DOOR.

Is this an indication that THE CLUB is a SUPERNATURAL place???

Since we also see the SNOWY STREET of POLAND through the WINDOW as DERN climbs the staircase to MR. K's place, one would assume THE CLUB would be a SUPERNATURAL place of some kind.

But then we've also seen that HUGE PROP sitting inside of STAGE 4, that takes up nearly the entire length of the STAGE, which also seems to indicate its a FAKE TWIN COPY of the SNOWY STREET in POLAND.

So once we realize there's a FAKE COPY of the SNOWY STREET, then we can also understand how that may also be what we see sitting outside the WINDOW as Dern climbs the stairs that she enters from the CLUB in SUNNY LA.

🐇 🐰

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

Doesn't Mr. K point out that Dern has been in his office for SOME TIME now? I'm pretty sure he does... and that would then support my idea

B/c if these stories are supposed to be told right after she JUST ARRIVES in Mr. K's room and says there was a man she once knew, then it wouldn't make sense for Mr K to say she had been there for a while... right?

The only thing MR. K says to DERN is HE LIKES PANCAKES.

Then she also leaves after she hears him having a conversation on the telephone in the other room with someone else ...

where he talks about CRIMP (aka: The PHANTOM) ...

and says he's around there somewhere.

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[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

The only thing MR. K says to DERN is HE LIKES PANCAKES.

Then she also leaves after she hears him having a conversation on the telephone in the other room with someone else ...

The pancakes line is part of the deleted scenes, it was not in the feature film so I do not count it. The line I'm referring to is during that conversation Mr. K has on the phone. He tells whoever he is speaking with that "yeah... she's STILL here. I do not think it will be much longer, now." The context clues obviously imply she has been there for some time now, but not too much longer. And just like that, she sneaks out when he isn't looking.

You'reOutOfTheWoods
You'reOutOfTheDark
You'reOutOfTheNight
StepIntoTheSun
StepIntoTheLight

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

Why call it MORE THINGS that HAPPENED if they DIDN'T HAPPEN???

What you consider to be DELETED scenes, LYNCH considers to be SCENES that he had to leave out only because of the TIME ISSUE.

That's obviously the reason why he refers to them as being MORE THINGS that HAPPENED rather than making a reference to them being DELETED scenes.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Anyhow ...

IE is also a story where TIME is all MIXED UP.

If it's 9:45 one thinks it's AFTER MIDNIGHT (as the NEW NEIGHBOR says).

The first TIME we see it get all MIXED UP is when DERN ENTERS the AXXON N DOOR in the BACK ALLEY of STAGE 4.

After this EVERYTHING gets FRAGMENTED to where she can't tell which CAME FIRST anymore (which she also explains to Mr. K).

And by the END of the film we also see her STANDING in the MOVIE THEATRE watching herself on the BIG SCREEN ...

where we also see her GET BACK in SYNC with herself again ...

before she follows MR. K who is also standing there by the screen up the stairs.

So MR. K also appears to be some kind of character who UNDERSTANDS the way TIME is FRACTURED, and what needs to be done to get it back IN SYNC again???

So when he says he doesn't think it will be MUCH LONGER now ...

a LINE we've also heard the RABBITS saying ...

doesn't this also seem to indicate he's already BEEN HERE and DONE THIS SCENE with her BEFORE???

And The RABBITS also tell us:

IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE TELLING of TIME.

Thus also giving us still another indication that MR. K MEETS with DERN more than just ONE TIME???

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

I hear you about those deleted scenes, but I make an exception for INLAND EMPIRE because of the sprawling nature of the movie itself, I see it as a sea of stories rather than one self-contained story. And those deleted scenes are just currents and tides and waves all floating about in the same sea.

I love More Things That Happened and I'm grateful Lynch allows us to see more of the World of IE. But I know that analyzing MTTH is not needed in order to understand the film. The film itself is all we need. This is especially true b/c SEQUENCING is always extremely important in Lynch's films... and with MTTH, it is absolutely impossible to know where each scene was meant to be placed in terms of the films sequencing.

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

What precisely does a SEA of stories rather than ONE SELF CONTAINED story mean???

The claim that IE has NO UNIFIED STORY is discussed on another topic:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460829/board/thread/208055817?p=1

And what you refer to as being DELETED scenes is also NOT a correct way to label what LYNCH calls MORE THINGS THAT HAPPENED.

Because he's also letting you know these scenes are OTHER THINGS that happened rather than being scenes that one should ignore if they want a better understanding of the film.

As for the SEQUENCING issue, it's also NOT IMPOSSIBLE to know where to place the scenes in MTTH.

The scene where LOST GIRL BUYS the WATCH, for example, would take place AFTER the death of LUCAS who's wearing the WATCH at 9:45 pm when someone asks him [b]WHAT TIME IT IS.[/b]

After this we also see THE WATCH is missing from his CORPSE, and we also see it PINNED to the inside of THE PHANTOM'S COAT before he SELLS it to LOST GIRL.

So we also know this WATCH SELLING SCENE takes place AFTER he's DEAD.

Since she mentions her pregnancy and the doctor telling her she won't be able to work anymore, we also know the other scenes between DERN and the SMITHY character take place BEFORE he joins the CIRCUS and ABANDONS her.

And we also know the LAST scenes where we see the DORIS character in the WHITE SHORTS walking past the OLD HOTEL take place right before she sticks the SCREW DRIVER into DERN'S SIDE.

Thus the claim that it's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to know where to place things that happen in MTTH is also without any MERIT.

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[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

As for the SEQUENCING issue, it's also NOT IMPOSSIBLE to know where to place the scenes in MTTH.

The scene where LOST GIRL BUYS the WATCH, for example, would take place AFTER the death of LUCAS who's wearing the WATCH at 9:45 pm when someone asks him WHAT TIME IT IS.

That is incorrect. You are merely placing the scene in chronological order, claiming it happened before something else... but can you tell me exactly which scene would have come just before, and just after? You of all people should know that this film is not in chronological order, time is out of wack, so there is no way for you to know FOR SURE where the scenes in MTTH are supposed to be placed, and to claim that you can is mere assumption and speculation with no proof.

If you want to use MTTH in order to help support your ideas of the film you can go right ahead, I don't meant to imply that it's wrong to do so... I don't believe that if that's what you think. I just don't believe it is absolutely necessary to do so and only creates MORE confusion than its worth.

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

Yes TIME is OUT of WACK, but that also doesn't mean it can't be ARRANGED in a way that MAKES SENSE CHRONOLOGICALLY.

IE also isn't the FIRST FILM or story that was ever presented to us OUT of CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, or in such a way that one can't PLACE things into their PROPER ORDER once one has reached the END of the story.

So once again the claim that one CAN'T do so still has NO MERIT ...

Especially after it's also just been demonstrated for you HOW to do so in the previous message.

The scene where LOST GIRL buys THE WATCH also helps us to understand the REASON WHY the LUCAS character is dead, how he got that way, and how DERN ends up BUYING the SAME CURSED WATCH that we see RUNNING BACKWARDS in TIME from the SECOND VISITOR who visits her at SMITHY'S HOUSE.

So instead of creating more CONFUSION, the WATCH BUYING SCENE with LOST GIRL gives us more CLARIFICATION of what's happening in the other scene with VISITOR NUMBER 2.

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[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

It is an illusion to think that film is a game of movie scrabble where all the scenes need to be rearranged and placed back into correct order. People have tried this approach throughout the years and no one has been able to do it successfully or convincingly. So where is this proof of yours that the film can indeed be placed into chronological order?

So once again the claim that one CAN'T do so still has NO MERIT ...

Ok... so how does the claim that one CAN do it have merit, exactly? B/c you can make the logical assumption that the scene where a man wheres a watch must have come after the scene where LG buys the watch? Sorry but that does not prove your point. I know how this song and dance goes with you. You'll keep trying to convince me you're right and I'm wrong, and I will continue to say "no, sorry." So I guess we should stop now. :P

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

you can make the logical assumption that the scene where a man wheres a watch must have come after the scene where LG buys the watch?

No. You're confused. The scene where LOST GIRL buys THE WATCH comes AFTER the scene where someone asked LUCAS WHAT TIME it IS.

And the reason why they ASK WHAT TIME IS was probably also so they could get a good look at his WATCH and see if it was worth anything or not before they KILLED HIM for it???

Sorry for the confusion. No one is suggesting the movie is a game of SCRABBLE.

What's being suggested is scenes from MTTH HELP to further illustrate what happens in other scenes in IE.

Take the scene where DERN gets TRAPPED inside of SMITHY'S WORLD after she enters the AXXON N DOOR in back of STAGE 4.

Remember the other scene where the AXXON N RECORD appears and we see the DISEMBODIED HEAD of LOST GIRL FLOATING in MID AIR saying:

DO YOU WANT TO SEE

before LANI and LORI take her through the other MAGIC WINDOW and say:

IT'S JUST DOWN THE WAY

which means they probably also show her the MURDER SCENE in POLAND???

What seems to be happening is once DERN enters SMITHY'S HOUSE she's once again being SHOWN what it was like to live the LIFE that LOST GIRL had before she BUYS the WATCH.

And what does THE PHANTOM mean when he says he will WATCH OVER HER???

Perhaps he means he'll be her PIMP???

Because with LUCAS DEAD she has no way to PAY THE RENT???

So when VISITOR #2 arrives with the WATCH on her arm telling DERN there's an UNPAID DEBT, and inquires about the MISSING SMITHY,

we NEXT see DERN visit this CREEPY CRIMP fellow who has the LITTLE RED NIGHT LIGHT in his mouth.

RED LIGHTS are also indications of PROSTITUTION.

So both DERN and LOST GIRL also end up standing on streets looking like they're hookers (DERN on the WALK of FAME in LA/Lost Girl on the SNOWY STREET in POLAND).

And DERN is also shown HOW LOST GIRL ends up being there by being SHOWN what life was like living with SMITHY.

DO YOU SEE???

This is where the CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER comes into play.

IRONICALLY, by Going OUT of ORDER this also enables us to put things into ORDER, or to SEE how it is that BOTH girls end up WALKING the STREETS at the end of the story.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

The stories of these characters shift the same way.... So xxpo says its not a unified story, fantastic way to put it, I call it a sea of stories...

You know, I believe it was while making IE that Lynch was talking about the Unified Field more than ever, and had recently read Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's theory of Cosmic Consciousness iirc (pretty sure these things are revealed in those documentaries about the making of IE). Lynch often says that everything floats on one ocean, it is all connected and all has a purpose. Something along those lines.

SO if it's a sea of stories, it's one sea, so all the stories in that sea must be connected somehow, seems pretty unified to me.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

CLOUD ATLAS...

When I sat through that entire movie, all I felt afterward was regret. I hated it.

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

It was a GIMMICKY film ...

definitely NOT one of the PROPS or the PILLARS that FAULKNER MENTIONS in his NOBEL PEACE PRIZE SPEECH ...

that will help us to ENDURE.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

I don't know man... It's not like with Lynch films where, even if I have no idea what's going on, I can FEEL it: the emotions, the mood, it all hypnotizes me. With Cloud Atlas I just wanted to walk out the whole time, despite watching the whole thing.. I honestly don't remember a single scene from the entire film. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood. Perhaps I will give it another chance one day.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 10 years ago

Fell asleep during it ...

it's a long film ...

also fell asleep first time viewing IE on the SUNDANCE CHANNEL ...

but whereas IE leaves one with a BURNING DESIRE to GO BACK and CHECK out what it is one missed ...

CA doesn't do this ...

or leave one with the same kind of a FEELING for some reason???

Also WOKE UP at the ENDING of BOTH films as well ...

so also caught the CONCLUSIONS of both of them.

But once again one is still not as CURIOUS to go back to check out the rest of what happens in CA???

The OPENING scene was interesting enough.

The ROBOT girl serving people in a FUTURISTIC FAST FOOD joint.

Was it MACDONALD's???

If so, then that was definitely also an interesting kind of PRODUCT PLACEMENT to have in a film???

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

xxpo says its not a unified story, fantastic way to put it, I call it a sea of stories...

No XXPO said NO such thing ...

due to the 3 MAIN REVELATIONS one find's in IE ...

xxpo says quite the OPPOSITE ...

that there is definitely a UNIFIED STORY in IE.

But there's also an OCEAN FULL of POSSIBLE ways to view whatever it is that one sees (multiple narrative perspectives).

IMO, PORTRAIT of an ARTIST is an ARTISTIC MESS ... IT STINKS ... Can't stand Joyce ... BUT LOVE FAULKNER ... So please also try to stick with him and avoid the mention of JOYCE ... if you want to discuss the use of the STREAM of CONSCIOUSNESS technique.

Any mention of Joyce makes my blood boil ... due to the time one was forced to waste and spend reading him in LIT class.

And YES ...

Some would also say FAULKNER'S THE SOUND and THE FURY is not a UNIFIED STORY.

But if one TAKES enough TIME to STUDY and UNDERSTAND IT ...

then one can also see that it has the SAME kind of a UNIFIED STORY as IE has ...

it's just that the UNITY is FRACTURED or SCATTERED throughout the story among several different NARRATIVE POINTS of VIEW.

One could also EQUATE MTTH to being like the other ADDITION, THE LAST CHAPTER, that was later ADDED on to THE SOUND and the FURY. That chapter is also told to us by the MAID who worked in the COMPSON family household.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 10 years ago

No. A UNIFIED STORY doesn't mean ONE STORY.

There are definitely MANY STORIES in IE.

But the MANY stories are also UNIFIED in the sense that they're basically also telling us THE SAME KIND of a STORY.

Joyce writes about the IRISH CULTURE.

FAULKNER writes about the CULTURE here in the US.

It probably also helps if one is BORN into the CULTURE that they write about to be able to APPRECIATE and BETTER UNDERSTAND IT???

Reading JOYCE leaves me feeling COLD and UNENLIGHTENED.

Makes me feel like an OUTSIDE ALIEN who has no relation to whatever it is that he's saying.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 10 years ago

JOYCE was also an EXILE who still remained forever WEDDED to the CULTURE he left and REJECTED ...

whereas FAULKNER stays put and didn't go into EXILE like JOYCE does.

It probably also helps if one was raised a CATHOLIC when it comes to being able to comprehend some of the stories JOYCE wrote???

It would also be interesting to see if others from other cultures find FAULKNER to be as confusing as JOYCE is for me???

Did JOYCE ever win the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE like FAULKNER DID???

FAULKNER'S short little NOBEL PRIZE SPEECH also illustrates HIS GREATNESS as well.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1949/faulkner-speech.html

Imo, It's even better than LINCOLN'S Gettysburg address.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xxpo 10 years ago

It is a brilliant speech isn't it???

Faulkner was also a better NOVEL writer than a SCREEN WRITER.

This is also a MAP and how one spells YOKNAPATAWPHA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoknapatawpha_County

It's also a NATIVE INDIAN name like so many of the names of other states, towns, streets, RIVERS, etc. here in the US.

And yes he also distanced himself from his CULTURE ...

as one can also see from reading what he has one of the HARVARD BOYS saying to QUENTIN COMPSON about the SOUTH in ABSALOM,ABSALOM.

http://www.novelguide.com/absalom-absalom/top-ten-quotes

It's passage NUMBER 8 which begins with Shreeve asking QUENTIN if the SOUTH is something he lives and breathes like air ...

and compares it to a VACUUM filled with wrath and anger pride and glory at a WAR that ended several decades ago ...

but from generation to generation they still don't forgive General Sherman ...

and then Quentin also mentions GETTYSBURG ...

and tells him you'd have to be BORN THERE to UNDERSTAND IT.

"Gettysburg," Quentin said.

"You cant understand it. You would have to be born there."

"Would I then?" Quentin did not answer.

"Do you understand it?"

"I dont know," Quentin said.

"Yes, of course I understand it."

They breathed in the darkness.

After a moment Quentin said:

"I dont know." (p. 289)

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[–] Garmonbozia8 10 years ago

Datas_Cat: "xxpo says its not a unified story..."

xxpo: "No XXPO said NO such thing ..."

Then xxpo can you please explain to my why I see a thread on this board, started by you, that is titled "IE has no unified story world." ???

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[–] xxpo 10 years ago

GO READ IT.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460829/board/thread/208055817?p=1

You'll see this is a QUOTE from some other article that makes this claim.

But later on ...

several pages later in the topic ...

xxpo also comes to the CONCLUSION that IE does have a UNIFIED STORY ...

and this is also STATED to be the opinion that xxpo chose to hold in opposition to what's stated in the other article.

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[–] xxpo 12 years ago

THERE WAS A MAN SHE ONCE KNEW ...

which is also A LINE WE'VE ALSO ALREADY HEARD THE OTHER GIRLS that DERN finds sitting inside of a ROOM inside of SMITHY'S HOUSE saying before.

PLEASE also NOTE the way these SAME GIRLS that DERN FINDS sitting INSIDE the ROOM inside SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

also END up being inside of ALL 3 of the 3 DIFFERENT WORLDS that we find located inside of the

CURSED AXXON N STORY:

1. THE MODERN DAY WORLD of PIOTREK

2. THE 1960 WORLD of SMITHY

3. THE 30/40 WORLD of MUSTASH MAN

The other VERY IMPORTANT thing to NOTE is the way in which the LUCAS who GETS the GUN from THE 3 HALF RABBIT MEN ...

the 3 HALF RABBIT/HALF HUMAN Men WHO MORPH into being RABBITS again AFTER MIDNIGHT ...

(like the way most things MORPH back into whatever they are in FOLK TALES or FAIRY TALES AFTER MIDNIGHT) ...

is the way in which this VERSION of LUCAS also RIDES AROUND inside of a MODERN DAY AUDI AUTOMOBILE with JANEK.

So that also means this has to be either the PIOTREK character we see ...

or else it has to be the REAL LIFE ACTOR who plays the part of PIOTREK ...

who searches for LOST GIRL.

AND this would definitely also NOT be the SMITHY CHARACTER we see SEARCHING for her ...

or the other ***MAKE BELIEVE CHARACTER*** from KINGSLEY'S BLUE VERSION of the AXXON N SCRIPT ...

THE MAKE BELIEVE character in the AXXON N TALE who inhabits the 1960 WORLD.

So that also means this VERSION of LUCAS searches for HIS REAL LIFE WIFE ...

his REAL LIFE WIFE who also SITS inside of the 2000 WORLD ...

which we also KNOW due to the way in which she also has that MODERN DAY MOVIE MONITOR sitting there INSIDE of ROOM 205 ...

AND WE ALSO see that other MODERN DAY SATELLITE DISH sitting outside the WINDOW of the ROOM where she sits ...

which also means we have an ENTIRELY NEW or DIFFERENT LEVEL to the AXXON N STORY ...

ONE where LOST GIRL is also the REAL LIFE WIFE of the ACTOR who plays the DUAL ROLES of PIOTREK/SMITHY ...

or the ACTOR who plays the MULTIPLE ROLES of PIOTREK/SMITHY/MUSTASH MAN ...

the same way as DERN plays the DUAL ROLES of NIKI/SUE ...

and JUSTIN plays the DUAL ROLES of DEVON/BILLY ...

and the ACTRESS who plays DORIS also plays the DUAL ROLES of the WOMAN in WHITE/DORIS SIDE.

So the LOST GIRL who meets LUCAS inside of SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

by using the ***BACK WAY*** to GET INSIDE of it ...

where we also SEE ***HER REFLECTION *** in that FULL LENGTH MIRROR as she PASSES OUT the DOOR of ROOM 205 ...

is also suppose to be the REAL LIFE WIFE of LUCAS THE ACTOR ...

the REAL LIFE WIFE WHO'S also just spent the NIGHT with THE BIG BAD WOLF in this AXXON N TALE ...

or with JUSTIN who plays the DUAL ROLES of DEVON/BILLY ...

which also means the AXXON N CYCLE ...

or the CURSE that takes place inside of the MOVIE SCRIPT ...

is also about to begin all over again ...

IN REAL LIFE this time ...

with the MODERN DAY LOST GIRL also having been SEDUCED by the SAME BIG BAD WOLF
as DERN and the other girls were SEDUCED BY ...

THOSE SAME GIRLS DERN finds sitting inside of SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

who were also the FIRST GIRLS that we heard saying the SAME LINE that we hear the OTHER 2 DIFFERENT COPIES of DERN saying to MR. K:

THERE WAS A MAN SHE ONCE KNEW ...

which is also the SAME LINE of DIALOGUE that WE'VE ALSO ALREADY HEARD THE OTHER GIRLS that DERN finds sitting inside of a ROOM inside of SMITHY'S HOUSE saying before.

IN another very interesting LINK it also illustrates the use of a MOBIS STRIP and EXPLAINS how LYNCH also used THOSE SAME WORDS to describe what it is that we see HAPPENING:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/03/24/315662/-Our-National-Nightmare-a-David-Lynch-Mobius-Flip-Screenplay

All of a sudden everything flips. One character becomes another.
In the case of Lost Highway a character driving down the highway switches bodies with someone in a prison cell.

In Mullholand Drive, Naomi Watts’ character goes into a motel room and emerges as a different character.

The storylines are flipped, things start running backwards.

{SUCH AS THE WAY IN WHICH WE SEE DERN WALKING BACKWARDS and the WATCH RUNNING BACKWARDS}

And things start going horribly wrong, what was normal becomes nightmarish.

Eventually the storylines return to the beginning in a sort of circular fashion but upside down. Heaven has become Hell.

If you don’t believe me hear it from David Lynch’s own words here;

hear it from David Lynch’s own words here;

The story melts prior to the beginning to arrive at the end.

More than a circle it is a spiral or a Moebius Strip which is twisted around itself.

This is how a Mobius Strip looks like:

http://366weirdmovies.com/mulholland-drive-2001/

(INLAND EMPIRE ... is essentially Mulholland Drive on acid)

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

bump

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[–] el-9984 11 years ago

Good bump. It's been a while since I've gone over your IE analysis, and I've got what hopefully will be a simple question regarding the "Dern" character. Over on the "Observations" thread you posted this nice summary about different levels of IE, and which levels represent the "inside" story and which levels represent the "outside" stories.

LEVEL ONE:

Mr. and MRS. LUCAS (Lost Girl) ... is seduced by the BIG BAD WOLF character ...

(inside of the MODERN DAY HOTEL ROOM ... with the MODERN DAY MONITOR ... and the Modern day SATELLITE DISH that sits outside the window where she sits ...

which also means their story takes place OUTSIDE of the INSIDE STORY shown to us by the NEW NEIGHBOR).

LEVEL TWO:

MR. and MRS. PIOTREK (aka: NIKI) ... is seduced by her Co Star DEVON???

LEVEL THREE:

SUE BLUE (Dern as Mrs. Smithy) is seduced by BILLY ???

LEVEL FOUR:

LOST GIRL is seduced by MUSHTASH MAN or by the husband of the WOMAN in WHITE ???

OK, so the OUTSIDE story has the unnamed character whom you call LUCAS being married in real life to Lost Girl, who in turn had an affair with big bad wolf JUSTIN who also seduced DERN. At the end the outside story LUCAS is reunited with Lost Girl.

Here's my question: In this outside story, who is DERN married to? Is she married at all? thanks.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

In the OUTSIDE STORY ...

other than SEEING the REUNION between LUCAS and LOST GIRL ...

we have NO WAY of KNOWING anything for sure about anyone ...

and for all we KNOW DERN REALLY is a HALF ...

as the OLD POLISH COUPLE CALL HER ...

or a HALF RABBIT/ HALF HUMAN CREATURE ...

like the other 3 RABBIT MEN.

Because THE FIRST TIME we SEE DERN ...

NOTE the way she MOVES past what looks like a SERIES of SEVERAL MIRRORS on the WALL ...

but CLOSER EXAMINATION shows us those are NOT MIRRORS but are WINDOWS ...

that look out from one room into the other ROOM of the PALACE ...

where the PIANO is located inside of the BALL ROOM.

ODD to have WINDOWS looking out from ONE ROOM into another one isn't it???

SO ...

when we FIRST SEE DERN arrive ...

like the case is with THE NEW NEIGHBOR ...

THEY BOTH seem to be MORPHING or CHANGING from their RABBIT STATES into their HUMAN FORMS.

NOTE the BIG TREE we SEE with the 4 BIG HUGE BRANCHES that extent out from one LIMB.

Later when DERN returns home from her INTERVIEW on the MARILYN LEVENS SHOW ...

BEHIND her we see that BIG TREE is now a SMALL SHRUB ...

which must also mean what we saw was THE NEW NEIGHBOR'S VIEW of that SHURB or what looked like a TREE when she was still in her RABBIT FORM.

But once she's in her HUMAN FORM the BIG TREE looks like a SHRUB.

And that's also what indicates how THE NEW NEIGHBOR was also MORPHING when we FIRST SEE HER ARRIVE ...

just like it also looks like DERN is MORPHING when she first comes from the BACK BALLROOM area to see who KNOCKS at the FRONT DOOR.

ANYHOW ...

it also looks like DERN ENDS up BACK INSIDE of the RABBIT ROOM again at the END of the story ...

because that's also what happens to the MICE who turn into the HORSES that pull the CARRIAGE for CINDERELLA.

They change back into their TRUE FORM AGAIN AFTER MIDNIGHT.

Just like the CARRIAGE turns back into the PUMPKIN again.

So if DERN sits INSIDE the RABBIT ROOM ALL ALONE ...

at the END of IE ...

then maybe one could also ASSUME she is NOT MARRIED???

Or IF she was ...

then maybe she's also NOT MARRIED anymore???

Not with JACK RABBIT being sent to see MR. K ...

after he APPEARS and then DISAPPERS AGAIN ...

when the GREEN RABBIT ROOM turns RED???

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[–] el-9984 11 years ago

Ok, so you're saying we don't get many glimpses of the outside story characters and the Visitor #1 scene is like a morphing composite wherein what we're shown are "Halves" which partly represent Nikki Grace (the Level #2 Mrs. Piotrek in the Axxon N story), and partly represent Dern, who operates on Level #1.

Do we see any other glimpses of the outside story DERN? What about the talk with Nastassja Kinsky in MTTH…is that a view of the outside DERN?

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

GREAT QUESTIONS EL.

You'd make an EXCELLENT PROSECUTOR.

Too bad you didn't work on the CASEY ANTHONY CASE ... where you'd probably also have NOTICED how THE COMPUTER SEARCHES for HOW TO STRANGLE her daughter and poison her with the home made CHLOROFORM were also made just a few hours prior to the time when she probably KILLS CAYLEE.

ANYHOW ...

Since we DON'T KNOW FOR SURE who the FIRST BLURRY FACE COUPLE ARE ...

who also appear to be part of the OUTSIDE STORY ...

or show up BEFORE we see THE NEW NEIGHBOR who looks like she's MORPHING into HUMAN FORM ...

it's HARD to say for certain that isn't DERN or NASTASSJA at the VERY START of the STORY ...

where we also seem to have still another OUTSIDE STORY ...

prior to our seeing LOST GIRL sitting there inside of what also AT FIRST APPEARS to be the SAME ROOM ...

but which we later see is a FAKE TWIN COPY of that ROOM ...

like the FAKE TWIN COPY of the WALK of FAME ...

or a ROOM that is really located INSIDE instead of OUTSIDE of STAGE 4.

And ...

It also looks like the BLURRY FACED COUPLE MAY HAVE RABBIT EARS as well.

And at the END of the story that NASTASSJA tells DERN in MTTH ...

we also see a RABBIT exit that ROOM ...

and WALKING on the STAIRS ...

thus also giving one the IMPRESSION that might be someone who has MORPHED back into being a RABBIT AGAIN ...

which also goes well with YOUR THEORY about how DEVON could be THE PHANTOM ...

IF the RABBIT who SPYS on the conversation with JANEK and the PHANTOM is also the SAME RABBIT that MORPHS into being THE PHANTOM???

Anyhow ...

If that FIRST BLURRY FACE COUPLE isn't DERN ...

then it would seem we don't have an OUTSIDE DERN ...

but we also have DERN REPEATING what that FIRST BLURRY FACE GIRL SAYS on the WALK of FAME ...

and MAKING FUN of what she said as well ...

when she MOCKS her and says:

I'M AFRAID

But with the RABBIT ROOM or ROOM 47 and ROOM 205 and SMITHY'S HOUSE all having some kind of CONNECTION to each other ...

by way of either the MONITOR/SATELLITE DISH in ROOM 205 ...

or by way of SMITHY'S PHONE being able to REACH the RABBIT PHONE INSIDE of ROOM 47 ...

it's also hard to KNOW for sure how DERN KNOWS what this other FEMALE said ...

or if she may also have HEARD her SAY what she says on the AXXON N RECORD???

Here's a QUESTION for you:

Does the BLURRY FACED COUPLES CONVERSATION sound crackly or scratchy like it's also a part of the recording where the NARRATOR introduces the AXXON N TALE to us?

Can't remember now.

Just remember the other SCENES with LOST GIRL and the PHANTOM sound kinda SCRATCHY.

Anyway ...

Since we also NEVER see the TALK NATASSJA has with DERN INSIDE of IE ...

and we also see NATASSJA sitting there with DERN OUTSIDE of the place where
DERN FINALLY completes her HEAD TURN ...

to look over at the OTHER SIDE of the ROOM ...

where she finds the TWIN COPY of herself in the PALE BLUE 60'S DRESS ...

the TWIN COPY of DERN that we also see sitting beside of NASTASSJA inside of the BALLROOM in the PALACE at the end of IE ...

and NASTASSJA is also in another color 60'S STYLE dress ...

AGAIN

it's hard to say where to place these 2 characters.

BUT ...

Since we also see 2 FEMALE RABBITS INSIDE of the RABBIT ROOM ...

and what the RABBITS do also seems to MATCH PERFECTLY the STORY DERN tells MR. K about how HER SISTER and KIDDO use to sit there watching SIT COMS after her sister comes home from work ...

perhaps that's also WHO this DERN and NASTASSJA would be?

Because NASTASSJA also says she's MARRIED but DIDN'T CARE about that when she goes to the FAKE TWIN COPY of the HOTEL ROOM with this BILLY she meets in the bar.

So IF that's her sister ...

that would also make JACK RABBIT KIDDO ...

her sister's FREE LOADING BOY TOY ...

or DERN'S brother in law ...

who may have also had BOTH his BIG HEAD and his other little head (his private parts) CUT OFF and placed on her SHELF in the FRIDGE ...

along with a NOTE for her SISTER that explained what had happened.

So maybe DORIS could also represent the SISTER who finds the HEAD of her BOY TOY KIDDO sitting on the shelf in the FRIDGE when she gets home from work???

That might also help to explain the reason why she STABS DERN (as a SUBSTITUTE for LOST GIRL) in the GUT with the SCREW DRIVER?

And IF NASTASSJA also had SEX with BILLY ...

and DERN was also having a FLING with HIM ...

maybe that also helps to MOTIVATE DERN to place the HEAD of KIDDO onto her SHELF in the FRIDGE???

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[–] jjohnsonkingsx 11 years ago

Astonishing discussion. I'm gonna watch this movie again, god help me.

Here's to a second viewing...

I dread it. This film horrifies me.

-----
We're asking you to keep an open mind.
Right then. Get along little dogie...
Wilkins!

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

After watching a YOU TUBE CLIP (in an effort to see if the BLURRY FACED COUPLE SCENE SOUNDS SCRATCHY or not) ...

PLEASE also see the YOU TUBE CLIP TOPIC that I've bumped up again and also left a MESSAGE IN FOR YOU ...

STILL ANOTHER PROBLEM has OCCURED ...

which is we have 3 RABBIT MEN in that OTHER ROOM ...

instead of having 2 FEMALE RABBITS and 1 MALE RABBIT ...

like we have INSIDE of ROOM 47.

So HOW MANY RABBITS and RABBIT ROOMS do we have in this AXXON N TALE???

Apparently we also have MORE THAN JUST ONE RABBIT ROOM???

And that also ADDS STILL MORE CONFUSION and COMPLICATIONS to our being able to figure out WTF is going on???

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

El,

Just watched the beginning of THE IE DVD again ...

and YES we do HEAR the SCRATCHY SOUND at the BEGINING of the SCENE where the BLURRY FACED COUPLE ENTERS the OLD HOTEL ROOM in the BALTIC REGION ...

so that also seems to indicate that SCENE would also be a PART of the AXXON N RECORD that DERN seems to LISTEN TO ...

inside of the ROOM in SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

where she finds all of the other girls who let her know they've also been screwing DEVON???

But the SCRATCHY noise also STOPS as soon as the BLURRY FACE COUPLE are inside of the OLD HOTEL ROOM.

STILL another problem of course is DERN also tells THE OLD COUPLE who call her a HALF she DOESN'T SPEAK POLISH.

And this other BLURRY FACED GIRL is SPEAKING POLISH ...

SO ...

THIS MIGHT BE NASTASSJA in this SCENE ...

who does SPEAK POLISH???

But WHY does DERN have a SISTER who speaks it and she DOESN'T???

Could NASTASSJA also be a HALF SISTER or a STEP SISTER???

Since DERN also tells MR. K about the photo of the HAIRY ARM and asking her mother if that was her father ...

it doesn't sound like DERN has the SAME FATHER as NASTASSJA (if she's the sister who works as a WAITRESS and is married to KIDDO) does it???

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] el-9984 11 years ago

Yeah, the scratchy sounds from the phonograph definitely carry over into the blurry faces scene, and also pop up again at the end before everything transitions to Lost Girl on the bed.

The way everything is constructed here leads me think of the ancient phonograph as a metaphor - hell, what else could it be since at no point in IE is an old phonograph like this part of the story! It's scratchy sound bleeds directly into the next shot of the couple in the hallway, and the manner in which it neatly frames that scene's end points suggests that the action in the fuzzy face hotel is a metaphor too.

I look at the blurry face scene as a universalization…the anonymous faces pointing to the idea that this part of "the longest running radio play in history" (i.e. the oldest story in the world) could be anyone. We then move to the messy business of specifics and get Lost Girl crying on the bed.

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

Since the AXXON N RECORD also POPS UP into the MIDDLE of the AIR ...

in the other scene that takes place INSIDE of the ROOM in SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

where we see the OTHER GIRLS who also let DERN KNOW they've also been screwing Devon ...

and we also HEAR THE SCRATCHY SOUND again ...

and we also see the face of LOST GIRL FLOATING around IN MID AIR ...
as she explains how to BURN the HOLE in the SILK ...

ONE also GETS the feeling the girls are PLAYIING the AXXON N RECORD during this scene.

We also SEE and HEAR the girls PLAYING other RECORDS inside of the LIVING ROOM of SMITHY'S HOUSE ...

right before DERN drives over to BILLY'S HOUSE ...

where she gets SLAPPED by DORIS.

And the RECORD that they play also SOUNDS like the VOICE that one hears ...

when we see the MATCH HEAD BURNING and FLOATING up in the AIR inside of the RABBIT ROOM ...

So it also appears as if whatever one does in ONE ROOM of SMITHY'S place can also have an EFFECT on what happens elsewhere like inside of the RABBIT ROOM???

Like when DERN also tries to CALL DEVON and the phone call also gets MIS ROUTED and sent to the RABBIT ROOM???

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

bump

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[–] xxpo 11 years ago

No Message

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