MovieChat Forums > Life of Pi (2012) Discussion > Story is totally pro-atheism

Story is totally pro-atheism

posted 11 years ago by Assumption_of_Rationality
121 replies | jump to latest

It shows religions (and believing in Gods) are only wishful thinking to hide from the brutality of the material world.
"ADULT PI :So which story do you prefer?
WRITER: The story with the tiger. That's
the better story.
ADULT PI: Thank you. And so it goes with God."
With the storm representing Christianity and the island representing Islam (Iam quite sure there is a metaphor of Hinduism as well but iam not familiar with that ), the movie (or novel) views religions negatively with a critical eye and totally dismisses them.
Iam a muslim myself, so though i don't like the message of the novel, it is still an excellent thought provoking one.

[–] truther 9 years ago

As a non-religious person myself I watched this movie thinking it was obviously showing religion to be nothing more than a man-made construct to explain the unexplainable.

Pi makes a point of acknowledging that his father's teachings -- about reason and critical thought -- were what kept him alive. He's put on this lifeboat; he experiences the most awful, traumatizing violence; and he deals with it by inventing this parallel story substituting animals for people. Everything he tells about the lifeboat, from Richard Parker to the carnivorous island, is just fabricated to not only explain things, but more importantly to keep him both alive and sane. But it's not real any more than Vishnu is real in the scene where he apologizes for killing the fish -- it's just his own mind's way of making sense of what's happening.

"And so it goes with God." Religion is nothing more than an entire society inventing the same types of allegories, myths, and whatnot to explain what's happening. (And I love the selective morality of Pi's whole belief system, as shown most vividly when he unapologetically throws the rat into Richard Parker's mouth. A beautiful, dying fish gets an apology to Vishnu. A disgusting rat gets tossed to the tiger. Nobody's perfect.) Nothing in the tiger story is real, just as Wilson the Volleyball wasn't really talking to Tom Hanks and just as religion isn't real.

All that being said, I genuinely appreciate this thread because it's been enlightening to see other points of view. What's perfectly obvious to me is seen so differently by others.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] moosish-628-965954 8 years ago

Hi! I agree with your summation of "Life of Pi." However, while I think I understand your metaphor about the storm representing Christianity, I don't understand your metaphor of the carnivorous island representing Islam. Could you please educate me? Thanks!😃
~Marsha

[–] FrodoPotter 8 years ago

I kind of dislike that scene. Adult Pi says "god" is the better story, but it's not. The scientific story about life and the universe is infinitely better, more humbling and more impressive than the god story.

[–] bsharporflat 8 years ago

I kind of dislike that scene. Adult Pi says "god" is the better story, but it's not. The scientific story about life and the universe is infinitely better, more humbling and more impressive than the god story.

Sorry FrodoPotter, but you are not in a position to say this (except for yourself, of course).

Let's face it, you have led a spoiled, pampered life. You have not faced starvation, life-threatening disease, the horrors of war and so many other things that some human beings have faced and survived.

The technical term is "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" (PTSD). Even in pampered, sheltered societies such as ours, many soldiers and victims of child abuse suffer from this and it ruins their lives and makes them incapable of forming meaningful bonds of trust and love with other people.

Pi was able to survive his ordeal and to move on and establish a loving family of his own. How? How could he overcome such a terrible ordeal as spending months and months alone on a boat in the open ocean, and having to survive (as a vegetarian) by eating the dead bodies of his boatmates (including his own mother)?

The answer is "the Tiger". The tiger did those things. That's how he was able to recover. The truth would be too terrible for him to ever recover from.

And if you now understand the purpose of the tiger then.....so....God, for most people.

[–] FrodoPotter 8 years ago

The god story may have its uses for people. That does not make it the better story.

[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

The god story may have its uses for people. That does not make it the better story.

It does for those people who have a better life with God in it.

Why shouldn't they be allowed to have the best life possible?

They are a majority of the world, after all.

[–] FrodoPotter 8 years ago

Problem is that the vast majority has not tried both stories, life with and life without god. They are just raised and indoctrinated with the god story and that's what they live and die with. They don't know any better.

I for one have experienced and believed in the god story from youth till young adulthood and then became an atheist and realized that the scientific factual story is massively more impressive than the god fairytale.

And realizing that believing in a non-existing fictional character can't do anything for you that you couldn't do yourself in the first place actually also made my life better. It gave me a whole lot more confidence in myself.
Because I realized the powers I first thought were god's ("thank you god for helping me with my troubles and bringing me this joy") were actually my own all along ("I solved my own problems, made myself happy again. I can get myself out of sadness. Wow, I as a human being have lots of power over my own life and I can be proud of my own achievements, not having to thank some supernatural being for that.")

[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

I for one have experienced and believed in the god story from youth till young adulthood and then became an atheist and realized that the scientific factual story is massively more impressive than the god fairytale.

It was the opposite for me, in a way. Even from a very young age the whole "God" thing never made much sense to me. I always enjoyed science and preferred that explanation of "reality".

However, as I became an adult, took college philosophy classes, etc. I became aware that the external "reality" I believed in was only half the story. We all have an internal reality also which we rely upon even more than the external to get us through each day.

Studying cultural anthropology and comparative religion made me aware of the amazing variety and uses people make of their internal reality and how a shared internal reality drives society and history at least as much as "scientific reality" does. In fact, our internal reality is far more intrinsic to what makes us human than ephemera such as math and science, which only a few people are really good at.

The rest of us may (or may not) buy into what the mathematicians and scientists tell us. But if you are honest, you can easily see how belief in such things is not much different than religious belief. Both have "holy texts" and "high priests" and the need for authoritative speakers and interpreters of the "truth".

Just as you rejected the false religious dogma of your childhood, so I was able to see through the veil and become aware of the limitations of math and science. What I have found (for myself) is that becoming aware of the false faith and belief in science is the start to the truest and most honest exploration of the universe. Achieving an existential view of life is (for me) the true path to happiness.

And realizing that believing in a non-existing fictional character can't do anything for you that you couldn't do yourself in the first place actually also made my life better.

Two contradictions there.

1. If there really is no God then the belief in God and letting that drive your life IS an example of doing something for yourself. It is all internal.

2. Perhaps belief in God can't do anything positive for YOU. But you should have used the pronoun "me" there. Others can and do have a different experience. It is impossible for you to speak of the benefits of God and religion for anyone BUT yourself.

Wow, I as a human being have lots of power over my own life and I can be proud of my own achievements, not having to thank some supernatural being for that.")

Where I find that wordview to fall short is in recognizing the limits of your own ability to "achieve things" and to make a difference in your life and the world. What does that view leave you with when you fail? When things don't go your way? A sense of personal failure, weakness and ineffectuality.

As noted, my own journey has taken me beyond that. But that is just my own personal journey. We each need to find our own best view, whether that involves God, science, existentialism or some combination.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

They don't have god in their lives, they have a delusional belief that helps them get through the day.

Do you have proof?

Remember, to prove that other people don't have god in their lives, you first have to define what god means. Can you do that?

Remember, you have to define what god means to them, not what god means to you. I don't see how you can do this.

Since, you cannot achieve even the first step of proof, your statement is shown to be one of opinion, not fact.

And you are entitled to your opinion. It is as valid as anyone else's opinion. But, to be honest, it doesn't seem like you have put a lot of thought into this particular opinion.

I could be wrong. If so, feel free to share your thoughts and how you have come to this conclusion. I am open to hearing about them.

[–] 7 years ago

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

I also don't have proof that we aren't all the dream of demons, but is that true just because I don't have proof of it?

You are getting confused in your concepts.

Nobody is asking that you prove we aren't all the dream of demons. Nor is anyone asking you to prove that we are. Neither is possible.

The same is true for proof of disproof of God. But there is one difference. 85% of people on earth believe in God. They do so for a reason (or reasons). Such a majority of thought cannot be brushed away and dismissed by any rational person trying to understand the phenomenon of God.

Very few people believe we are all the dream of demons and there are reasons for that also. The tiny minority of thought here allows for dismissal.

But let's hypothesize that the existence of God can be proven or disproven. Here is a scenario. Either:

1. God originated as a false story which spread person to person and was believed.

2. God originates as a small brain structure which allows a person possessing it to perceive the higher power of the universe.

If one of these could be proven, then 1. means God doesn't exist and 2. means that God does exist and you are simply among the minority who lack the ability to see Him.

But, as it stands, we lack the ability to trace the veracity of an ancient story just as we lack the ability to find a "God" perceiving brain structure.

Thus we must, each of us, accept and respect people and their view of the world as experientially valid, with the hope that others will equally respect your own world view to be valid as you honestly see it.

That's the best you can do. And it is worth the effort to do it.

[–] 7 years ago

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

I'm not confused in the slightest. You say that god can't be proved therefore is real.

You are confused. Proven by quoting something I never said.

If God cannot be proven real or proven imaginary that's the end of the story. Each person is free to believe what they prefer to believe. That's what I said. And that is an irrefutable fact.

I don't think God is real but neither you nor I have any way to prove it. It's just what we choose to think. Others choose differently and their choice is just as valid as ours.

[–] cooler56 8 years ago

Atheist? No. Agnostic? Yes. One of the main themes of the book is the struggle with faith, especially during hardships. You can choose whether or not to see God in this story. Even the author of the book said this. Look it up.

[–] lianzantoro 8 years ago

I would also say it's agnostic. The guy who is listening to Pi's story has no way of knowing what story (if either) is true. So Pi essentially tells him to believe whatever story he finds more palatable, since there was no proof of what really happened.

[–] thargunitoth 8 years ago

No it is not. PI survived longer alone on a boat on the ocean than any other person. That makes his believe in God superior to atheism. An atheist would have died but a believer survived. So you are superior if you believe in God, even if God doesn't exist.

[–] 8 years ago

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