MovieChat Forums > Peaceful Warrior (2006) Discussion > Would you choose to work with a convicte...

Would you choose to work with a convicted peadophile?!

posted 17 years ago by camel-walk
32 replies | jump to latest

I watched this film completely unaware of the director's past. It was an ok film, the 'Rocky' training montage was ridiculous, but the rest was a midly diverting 100+ minutes.

Then I read about Salva's past on IMDB and I felt sick. Not least because of the amount of people that leapt to the defence of this slimy child molester in the name of 'Art'! Because someone (anyone) makes 'good films' we should divorce ourselves from the fact that this grown man manipulated a 12 year old boy in his employ on one of his films to repeatedly suck his penis while he video taped it?! Because he makes 'good films'?! Is that how it works?! By the same token, if it was your little bother/son/nephew/cousin/friend that he repeatedly debased and dehumanised while in his care you would put that aside as long as the creative content of his 'art' made up for it?!

I'm devasted that my money has helped this man pay his bills! I'm astounded that he is allowed to be in a position to sell anything to the public under the pretention 'I don't like to have sex with little boys'! If you need to eat, go pack boxes!! What also truly baffles me is that this is something that the industry knows about Salva and yet actors like Nick Nolte, Amy Smart, ALL OF THEM, still sign up to help him? Because it doesn't matter? The art it what he does is more important than the little boy he manipulated into performing sex acts with him on camera for his own warped gratification (and who knows who else)?! I wonder if anybody on set allowed their young childre to be around him? The author of this 'inspirational story', HIS story, allows a man who is a known and convicted sexual predator of little boys to bring it to the screen??!!! Am I missing something here?!!

If a man you knew was a convicted peadophile, a man who was a known child predator, offered you a job, would you accept it knowing that all your family, your friends, your peers would know who he is and what he had done? or does it really not matter? help me out here. Peadophiles do not stop being peadophiles when they are caught, they just have to be more discreet and/or more in control of their unnatural urges in the future. I would feel repulsed working looking into the eyes of a man who I knew had only stopped what he had been doing (or maybe just hadn't been caught out again) because he had been caught once already.

[–] jgecclestone 17 years ago

I agree, but if you take a look through the previous thread on the same topic [the one that has 70 posts as of now] you'll find that many other people do not agree.

[–] blitz59 17 years ago

I too do not believe there should be any "second chances" for child molestors. Pedophiles are far from dumb, and Salva is no exception, he's slowly working his way back into public acceptance by making these positively empowering movies that people love to love.

It's a sort of innocence by association. If the guy says he read the book in prison, and magically changed because of it, and decides to do a film on it then he must be a good guy now, right?

WRONG.

He's still a child molestor and will always be. Pedophiles rarely if ever change, they still have sick urges despite the knowing that what they do is considered wrong. This is what makes them so dangerous. They are not out of their minds, and this is why pedophilia cannot be treated.

A pedophile that has gone to prison will be twice as dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if in say 10 years we find out that Victor Salva has raped dozens of kids on the sets of his movies etc not being found out until his sneaky schemes go wrong.

This is what pedophiles do, they adapt and become better predators. Sure you can believe that he's changed, but do that knowing that somewhere out there is a potential child victim waiting to happen.

I urge everyone to boycott this movie, if you are interested the story go read the book instead, it's much better, and you're not supporting a pedophile by buying the book.

[–] camel-walk 17 years ago

i totally agree blitz59. be careful of a couple of things though. Salva was caught and he paid the price for (only) what he was caught for. My judgment would have been far more severe but that is why the public do not pass sentences on criminals (and rightly so). I am not a vilgilante or supporter of such.

In England all men like this are required to be on a child sex offenders registers for life, the police are required to know of their whereabouts at all times and they are not allowed to live, socialize or work anywhere near children. They cannot ever again be left alone with children under 16, even if it's their own children. They are completely ostricized with good reason. Salva on the other hand is funded to the tune of tens of millions of dollars to make hollywood films with apparently ignorant (and/or too self absorbed) well known actors for release to an unsuspecting general public! This allows him to make a living that will far exceed the life of the child that he ruined. How can that be right?! I'm not saying it could or should be illegal for him to do this but the amount of people in hollywood who haven't turned their back on him, despite knowing what he did, is staggering. I for one know I couldn't knowingly help a man like that be successful.

I feel so strongly about this because I am dismayed that I have unwittingly contributed to his standard of living (it make me want to vomit)! No right thinking person should ever have to be in that position.

Also, the word 'considered' implies that there are circumstances or cultures where such depraved behaviour is not 'considered wrong'. eg, whereas in the US smoking dope is 'considered wrong' in Holland it is fine. Peadophillia is illegal, depraved and evil across 100% of the earth's surface. Let me tell you, it's the sort of issue President Bush and an Islamic terrorist would be able to shake hands on!

[–] blitz59 17 years ago

Aye considered. Pedophilia is considered wrong by more or less the entire planet today, but we need not look very far back to see that it was not always so. You mention Islam. Take Muhammed and Aisha for instance. Aisha was merely 6 years old when Muhammed married her and he is said to have consummated(engaged in sexual intercourse that is) the marriage when she was nine. That makes him a pedophile by modern standards, and yet still millions of people today do not consider him to have been a pedophile.

Historical comparisons aside, there is a point to my argument, namely that forgiving the pedophile is in reality enabling pedophilia. This is why there can and should be no second chances for a child molester. This is why I salute all of you on this board who continue to give Victor Salva a well-deserved bad name by trashing his boards.

[–] nomen_meltdown 16 years ago

"Also, the word 'considered' implies that there are circumstances or cultures where such depraved behaviour is not 'considered wrong'. eg, whereas in the US smoking dope is 'considered wrong' in Holland it is fine. Peadophillia is illegal, depraved and evil across 100% of the earth's surface. Let me tell you, it's the sort of issue President Bush and an Islamic terrorist would be able to shake hands on!"

Um, at risk of a bunch of people shrilling that I'm some pedophile-apologist, you might want to brush up a bit on history and on other cultures. A little comparative anthropology would be very humbling, I suspect. For a *long* time in various Western societies it was common for young children to be married off (generally girls to adult men) for political and monetary gain, and that's still practiced in some cultures today. And in various more isolated societies (in the Amazon, I believe) there's a practice of boys fellating adult men to receive what they believe to be an infusion of masculinity to usher them into manhood. Foucault even writes about a shift that took place in the United States (necessarily, then, within the last couple hundred years) where a grown man who was having a sexual relationship with a young girl and one day people knew about it and it was accepted, and the next it started to be considered aberrant.

Your culture isn't the be-all and end-all of global human culture, and even the values and beliefs that predominate in your culture today haven't always been so. "Morals" change over time, and what we condemn today may have been commonplace in days past. And you can't say that all of those changes are necessarily 'backsliding' into degeneracy; the non-rights and non-personhood of women, of children, of other races were all once the prevailing attitudes and with time those attitudes have changed. At one time, children were considered merely miniature people, and in another day and age they were commodified property to be sent to work in coal mines. Hell, the very concept of 'teenagers' and their being some different, 'transitional' class of human beings in between childhood and adulthood is only a development of the industrial revolution. Before that a child 'became' an adult on a given day, through one manner of ceremony or another, and that was that. X on Monday and Y on Tuesday.

Today the popular opinion is that at some arbitrary age 'perfectly innocent children' (which- as anyone paying attention knows- children aren't)become 'consent-capable adults' (which those same people know, not every adult is) and that any adult who crosses that line is some depraved monster. But that arbitrary age isn't even universally agreed upon- world-wide it can span a range of 9 years or more. With time any number of things might change. A hundred years from now, our definitions of 'child' and 'adult' could be radically different; you could be a 'child' until a panel of adults in your community declare that you've graduated to maturity/adulthood, whether that takes you 10 years or 40. I certainly don't endorse the idea that *every* 18 year-old is automatically mentally and emotionally qualified to drive, screw and vote; nor is every 30 year-old. By the same token, there are prodigous kids completing university degrees before hitting puberty who I'd say shouldn't be denied voting rights and- by extension- whatever adult priviledges they can get a heavily lobbied politician to extend on their behalf.

It's also possible that medical/developmental science will someday reclassify what we call pedophilia (itself another fairly recent cultural artifact) today; suppose that widespread brain imaging were to discover that 20, 50, 75% of adults experienced some sexual attraction to people under our modern legislated age of consent and that the only reason more people didn't act on it was because of the social stigma and their assumption that they were some sick statistical anomaly. How would the idea of it being some deviant, "depraved/evil" pathology hold up if it turned out that secretly a majority of people were thinking it? And before you poll your friends to prove me wrong, seriously- given that stigma- how many of them do you think would answer honestly even if they do?

The point of all of this isn't to defend the director's past conduct or to endorse anarchy or any of that crap, it's a simple refutation of your blanket statement that "100%" of humankind necessarily agrees on *anything.* Statements like that deserve and demand to be challenged before they seduce anyone else with underdeveloped critical thinking or a dearth of perspective. Cultures vary. And even individual societies' values and the beliefs that they take for granted mutate over time. So don't ever presume to speak for all mankind, ever. There is no monolith. Nothing that we presume is, has-always-been, or will-always-be immutably sacred. In our sordid history we've raped, we've murdered, we've cannibalized, and before all of those became taboo when anyone bothered to demand an explanation we've found any number of circumstances to justify such behaviour. We're naked apes, born as pure ego, respecting nothing and capable of *any* extremes of behaviour, and as we grow up together we invent and re-invent our rulebooks so that we can get along together. Given that, none of us has any absolute, infallible knowledge of 'right' and 'wrong,' there's just 'does it work' and 'for how long?'

[–] TheCommenteer 17 years ago

yeh forget about everyone else who worked on the movie, who cares about them, lets boycott it because one of the people is a child molester.
and lets just remove all movies and art from public display that have been done by someone who has committed some form of crime. that doesnt leave us with much...

"He's still a child molestor and will always be. Pedophiles rarely if ever change, they still have sick urges despite the knowing that what they do is considered wrong. This is what makes them so dangerous. They are not out of their minds, and this is why pedophilia cannot be treated."

thanks dr phil. i see you must be an expert on paedophiles, even though you cant spell it. the 59 in your username clearly stands for PhD because youve done extensive study on paedophiles and understand it better than the rest of us. how about the idea that after being in jail they become too scared of getting caught to do it again? you think everyone who gets released after committing a crime like this is a repeat offender? check your statistics dumbass.
we get it, the guys messed up. sorry if i dont now associate everything he does with pure evil.

[–] Theorian 17 years ago

Sin is sin whether it's loaded on with a ton of bricks or a dozen feathers, but men weigh things because their life gives them little reason not to. What defines your character? Probably every negative circumstance that has occured in your life.

I say that to say this... the man probably has moved on with his life, asked his God for forgiveness and moved on with his life, and their's only one who can judge and ultimately have the final say.

Let it go.

[–] camel-walk 17 years ago

i dont give a *beep* what this man does. because he has 'asked his god for forgiveness' i should forgive him also?

I just dont want to be put in a position to unknowingly contribute to the salary and success of a man who filmed himself molesting a little boy.

Perhaps you dont care and that's your right but it would say volumes about your own character and who you are.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] eenco 17 years ago

Uhm I desgree about boycotting the movie cause of the molesting director, *beep* it, I liked the movie, then I read the book, and it got me thinking in a positive way.

I hate the fact that the director is piece of s**t and anyone who is malestering should be brain washed and used as slaves for the community services!

(woah thats so much better then an execution, better make a retard out of a con then killing him :)

Anyways, I liked the movie and I loved the books, and I haven't payed a cent for watching the movie, thus I have not supported Salva's deeds! Period...

P.S. Long Live P2P, Thank God that I don't live in U.S.!

[–] TheCommenteer 17 years ago

"i dont give a *beep* what this man does. because he has 'asked his god for forgiveness' i should forgive him also?"
what do you need to forgive him for, he did nothing to you you idiot.

"I just dont want to be put in a position to unknowingly contribute to the salary and success of a man who filmed himself molesting a little boy."
you know what he did, clearly you wouldnt be "unknowingly contributing" to his salary if you KNOW he did it. and you know youre paying money for something he made. again, you are an idiot.

"Perhaps you dont care and that's your right but it would say volumes about your own character and who you are."
yeah it says i focus on the work produced, not the person behind it. i also dont go boycotting movies because one of the people who made it is messed up. idiot.

[–] david_wennberg 17 years ago

I find is incredibly ironic (not to mention hypocritical) that people scorn Salva and other child molestors in the entertainment industry (rightfully so) but completely forgive Republican pedophiles. Reagan and Bush were both re-elected to president and vice president (Bush later president) AFTER it was well known they were giving "midnight tours" of the White House to underage male prostitutes. Normal everday joes have been convicted on alot los info. The Republican party is crawling with pedophiles, every time a political leader is caught molesting children it is a Republican. The double standard is what sickens me... sickens me more then Salva making more movies. Look up the Boy's Town child sex ring scandal perpetrated by Republicans!!! If you support the GOP but attack Salva for the exact same things... you are a hypocrite, period!

[–] jsimpso1 17 years ago

And where did you hear about that? From the alien implant in your head, or a website that also says airport robots are stealing your luggage?

[–] mellison-2 17 years ago

Camel walk, I'm betting you're digusted by a lot of people...get over yourself...he did his time...15 months in prison. If he had gotten of scott free...then whine, but he didn't. Nolte and Smart worked with him because they can see some good in the man despite his criminal past. You're devasted that people helped Slava...that sums up everything. You are easily digusted and devastated (or devasted as you said) ...how sad. I'm bothered that people are so judgemental and unforgiving. That's what we need more of in the world, disgust and devastation. People defend other people when they are attacked. One of the most powerful things in life is forgiveness...look it up ...camel...and then try getting over yourself.

[–] covenant12 14 years ago

Pretty judgmental there yourself

You saw Dingleberries?

[–] pickdlm 17 years ago

1. Bill Gates built an empire off two stolen ideas. One from Apple, one from Xerox. Maybe you should stop buying Windows.

2. Most Rock Stars are drug users. Maybe you should stop supporting their habits.

3. Most rappers are murderers. Maybe you should stop supporting their gangs and homies.

4. Most of the people you revere probably have some serious skeletons in their closet. They're just better at hiding them.

Are you saying that just because he did something once, he should no longer be able to have a job, pay his bills, live a life? If that's what you think, then every child molester or whatever would end up on the welfare system, becoming a drag to society, leeching off the tax dollars YOU pay. By letting him work, he at least earns his keep. YOUR idea would just let him live off YOUR money taken unwillingly. Which would you prefer?

PS. What the hell is a PEADophile? Just because the slang term is "pede" doesn't mean it's spelled that way. If you're going to try and start a holy crusade, at least do the research. It makes your cause much more believeable.

[–] covenant12 14 years ago

1. Not all crimes are equal.

2. Not all crimes are equal, and where did you get this statistic?

3. Stupid racist generalization.

4. That is a pointless point.

Stop acting like Salva's only option to earn a living is to make mediocre movies. And work on your reading comprehension, because your rhetorical questions have already been answered.

You saw Dingleberries?

[–] camel-walk 17 years ago

when it comes down to it, like I said before, I have more comapssion for the life of a little boy who this man ruined than the rights of the molester to make a very good living after it.

When I go to see a movie or rent one, I assume that at the very least that the director didn't film himself having oral sex with a pre-teen child. I guess Americans don't care much about that. However that apparently puts me on a par with the third reich (Wow, you have got to be one tumble weed eating sheep stabber to draw that conclusion). Fact is, I can't prevent him from making movies if people choose to facilitate that. Knowing what I know now I would choose not to work with him. I would have liked to have been in a position to have made the same informed decision on whether I chose to contribute to the salary and success of a Peadophile (for those americans who believe the world ends at their borders, that's how we spell it in the UK).

For the proceeding poster, You are absolutely right, I hate any person that rapes/abuses/molests little children who also has the foresight to record it for future enjoyment. You obviously have compassion for such people and thats your right and, perhaps, your tastes. Refusing to see a film doesn't make me, or anyone hateful, idiot, it makes me a person excercising my right not to contribute to the success of a peadphile's work. But, I believe, in considering the molested boy over the molester it makes me a better (if not good) person. Did you hear me support any threat to this man's person or is it just easier to spout your ridiculous over-hyperbole if you also invent my personality to suit it?

Americans wonder why they have such a bad press in the rest of the world when it's citizens can make ridiculousy inaccurate sweeping statements as 'most rappers are murderers' and use it as the basis of arguing their point of view?!

As I said, he's not a shoplifter, he didn't fiddle his taxes, he didn't cheat on his wife/husband, take drugs, burgle a house, or DUI. His crime was to condemn a innocent young child to a lifetime of psychological, social and physical misery while he makes a fortune from public money. If you want to view him in the same way you view Wynona Ryder, good luck to you.....

[–] SpookiMonkey 17 years ago

I'm an American. I came to this site because the movie had been recommended to me by a Brit--and that gentleman (of a different faith than I) was subsequently horrified to learn of this director's past criminal actions towards children.

Camel-walk, I am with you on this one. Whether or not this guy "paid his debt to society," he cannot make up for his victims' mental anguish which will likely be felt life long. As a Christian I should exercise Forgiveness to one who has repented--and this is a universal spiritual concept, whatever words used. It is with some regret that I cannot, and I will boycott this movie. (I plan to read the book, however.)

I've known a disproportionate amount of Women who were systematically abused by Adults while young, ranging from "simple" molestation to outright rape. The violation of their Trust is only one issue. Molesters call the veracity and integrity of these innocents into question and essentially isolate them from all emotional support by the very people who should protect them. I cannot tell you how many of these women were made out as Liars or the Instigators of the events, even at as young as the age of three. Amongst my own family--and this is NOT a unique experience--the Molester was protected while the preschooler was villified. Not only that, despite a Court Order to the contrary, the pedophile was allowed continual, private access to that little girl. All that in the name of Christian Forgiveness towards someone who never even acknowledged that he had done any harm let alone take responsibility for it. Being legally convicted is NOT equal to the admittance,or renunciation, of heinous acts.

Sexuality is pretty hard-wired in people so I doubt that the disgusting lust for children ever goes away entirely, but I do believe that there are Abusers who absolutely intend to never cross the line again. I feel some pity for those, as it will be very difficult for the majority of them to be able to live in peace with their neighbors or make a decent living to keep body and soul together. But the utmost responsibility we have as a Society is to protect our children, whether or not we are actual parents ourselves. I cannot see into this director's heart, so I do not know which way he's decided to go. But the kind of money he can make from a successful movie, as well as the doors it would open for him, could very well allow and support him in the continuation of his "hobby" and buy the necessary privacy and complacency needed to camoflauge his actions.

***Spooki****

[–] Ode-to-a-Loner 17 years ago

I understand what the OP was saying. I feel bad that people like Salva are supported even after they have done something so unforgiveable. And they are usually supported by the majority as well. I also understand what the poster above me described about the molester being protected and supported while the child who has been victimized is villified and demonized. That kind of stuff happens all the time and it did happen to me when I was very young and had no control over what would happen to me. Adults who are in a position to get the predator out of close proximity to their kids often time do the very opposite. They continue to let the predator into their lives, their homes, attend special occasions and things like that and by doing that thye basically force the victimized child to ignore what has happened to them.

What a g'wan yawdie?

[–] rogerscorpion 15 years ago

Mr Camel, if you check, I think you'll find that that the 'a' precedes the 'e' in the way you Brits spell 'paedophile', not 'peadophile'. You didn't spell it the UK way OR the Yank way. Maybe, for you, just omitting the 'a' would be wiser.
BTW, Winona Ryder has a 'i', not a 'y', like Wynona Judd.
Unfortunately, everyone can confess, repent. I think anyone can evolve & become a better person.
If they do not--that's a different matter.
I disagree with a lot of people who make films I love. Me watching a film on cable, in no way, enriches anyone's pockets.

Carpe Noctem

[–] squatpuke 17 years ago

ROCK ON CAMEL...

I didn't know about this filth's past either till I read IMDB.

Although it's not realistic, the death penalty for sex-offenders sounds good to me. Kinda hard to make millions directing movies from the grave.

If that makes me sound "Third Reichish"...for wanting to "genocide" the pervs of this world...then so be it.

Heck...I'm a father of a 7,4 and 2 year old and I GUARANTEE anyone here I would take justice into my own hands if they become victims of a sexual predator. Damn the consequences.