Id be interested to hear what non US citizens thought of this movie


Greets,
It is interesting to me how much me and my friends talk about American politics. Obviously if you are interested in the politics of the world at all you will follow what goes on stateside, and it is definitely more dramatic than the politics of smaller nations, but there is more to it than that. I think people are genuinely concerned. For all these reasons I found outfoxed fascinating.
Im from Ireland, where we have what I think is a fairly neutral and unbaised national news network, RTE. Like alot of small nations (where nothing much seems to happen) the Irish take a larger interest in world affairs than say Americans do(having bigger domestic issues) and RTE also reflects this in its news.
I was *shocked* watching Bill O'Rielly (and embarrassed I might add, sharing an Irish name with this guy) and his aggressive, hectoring and thuggish way of dealing with his "guests". I can honestly say that if any Irish news broadcaster told a guest to "shut up" on air in that tone, there would be numerous complaints and I would imagine his/her career would be in question. Some of the crude humour and obvious personal attacks on politicians made my stomach turn, and also wouldnt be acceptable in any Irish media. I was left wondering how any American (down-to-earth rational people as I have met them on my travels) could watch this stuff, and the scary thought was the only explanation is that America is an extremely divided and partisan country at the moment.
Is Irish news just an abberation? What happens in your part of the world?

regards,
ed.

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I'm Northern Irish. I can't say I was too shocked seeing some of the things that Fox allowed to happen, as I knew of their conservative bias before I saw the film. Though I agree that O Riley is aggrevating.

ThE MaStER wOuLd NoT ApPrOvE- Torgo

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Mickeys49,
hi, you claimed the BBC is government funded however this is not the case. Everyone is Britain pays a license fee of approximately £110 a year. This pays for BBC1,BBC2,BBC3,BBC4,BBC news 24, and 7 BBC Radio Stations which cater for varying tastes, personally i think Radio 4 is excellent, you can listen to it through the website i think. TheBBC relies on the government for its license meaning it must justify its license fee to the government in terms of value for money.
The other channels, Channel 4 Channel 5 and ITV get their funding through advertising so the public is paying for it in another way.
BBC has an obligation to be truly fair and balanced which is how news should be. I have many friends who work for them and one of the first things they are told is to at all costs be unbiased. This (amongst many other things) is what makes Robert Mugabe's government in Zimbabwe very suspect, they currently have a ban on all foreign journalists including the BBC (normally able to cover every situation).
In recent years the BBC's standards have dropped as the appear to have dumbed down a bit in a battle with ITN. ITV's news coverage is appalling, it constantly reminds me of a very funny news parody called "The Day Today" first aired in 1994. If anyone is lucky enough to see it, good on you, i highly recommend it. Just bare in mind it is the coverage of the news it is mocking not the news stories. I especially recommend it to the Canadian poster a few posts before.
After watching "The Day Today" it is very hard to watch news seriously anymore.
This thread started of fairly well then went downhill a bit. The guy who thinks Fox news is fair and balanced needs to open his mind it seems. Politicians lie, its in their nature, news has an agenda, seek many sources, sometimes even ones you don't like. I don't like Bush but i've forced myself to see some of the good things he's done away from the issues of war.
all the best,
alex

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Hi

Oufoxed helps me understand a few things a litle better. Crowds of americans out on the Internet spreading hate against muslims, likely with "nuke em till em glow" signature, or similar. “nuclear weapons to attack terrorist facilities” got supported by 27% of americans, according to a poll by Gallup. We've seen extremism and propaganda machinery in action here in Europe not so long ago. Luckily without nuclear weapons, but Europe became ruins anyhow. Hope the moderate and good forces of USA will see the need to tame the right wing crowd, Bush, and their news. Good luck.

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After tonight seeing the film and I feel obliged to leave a comment, reiterating in a way the point which mickeys49 made (in response to joebuss' post in particular). Yes Europeans may fear corporations, yet they fear their governments also, I think the difference between the UK and US is that the BBC retains the journalistic integrity that it, as mickey said is obliged to do. The three golden rules of the BBC are to Inform Educate and Entertain; and while there has been a lot of controversy over the 'dumbing down' of the BBC's standards, our standards are still nowhere near Fox dumb. Not a sausage. It's a great comfort to know that we British at least have the potential to make our own judgements as our news broadcasting is a little more 'fair and balanced' than that which has been shown in this documentary (and which I sat and watched for 2 hours post-film - astounded is not the word...). I think this film is particularly relevant to non US citizens as it is one more eye-opener to the idiosyncratic and quite frankly stupid behaviour which could only be found in a Western society as such run by bureaucrats and fraudsters. Whether it's the baffling gun culture or war culture or Republican tight-arse culture it is something we Europeans with small populations and limited powers (well, perhaps not Britain as we are Republican lapdogs; labour? pah...) and uninteresting societies really need to know.

As for the comments on Saddam Hussein, perhaps it may seem to be snuggling up to take an alternative viewpoint, something which 'Outfoxed' really highlighted as a Republican no-no, yet I believe it is important to look at the facts when considering the world's most demonised man who hasn't ever made a threat directly to the USA. That is not to say Hussein is a seal or sunshine and love, yet it also does not say that he is hoarding a titanic supply of WMDs and I think even Republicans such as those on this board should take a step back from the propagandistic and down-right crazy messages being enforced willy nilly and really make a fair and balanced judgement about not only the cultist propaganda surrounding the Bush adminisitration but the state of America in general. Post 9/11, it really is a society in fear, which I think 'Outfoxed' and perhaps more overtly 'Fahrenheit 9/11' capture soberingly well.

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After tonight seeing the film and I feel obliged to leave a comment, reiterating in a way the point which mickeys49 made (in response to joebuss' post in particular). Yes Europeans may fear corporations, yet they fear their governments also, I think the difference between the UK and US is that the BBC retains the journalistic integrity that it, as mickey said is obliged to do. The three golden rules of the BBC are to Inform Educate and Entertain; and while there has been a lot of controversy over the 'dumbing down' of the BBC's standards, our standards are still nowhere near Fox dumb. Not a sausage. It's a great comfort to know that we British at least have the potential to make our own judgements as our news broadcasting is a little more 'fair and balanced' than that which has been shown in this documentary (and which I sat and watched for 2 hours post-film - astounded is not the word...). I think this film is particularly relevant to non US citizens as it is one more eye-opener to the idiosyncratic and quite frankly stupid behaviour which could only be found in a Western society as such run by bureaucrats and fraudsters. Whether it's the baffling gun culture or war culture or Republican tight-arse culture it is something we Europeans with small populations and limited powers (well, perhaps not Britain as we are Republican lapdogs; labour? pah...) and uninteresting societies really need to know.

As for the comments on Saddam Hussein, perhaps it may seem to be snuggling up to take an alternative viewpoint, something which 'Outfoxed' really highlighted as a Republican no-no, yet I believe it is important to look at the facts when considering the world's most demonised man who hasn't ever made a threat directly to the USA. That is not to say Hussein is a seal or sunshine and love, yet it also does not say that he is hoarding a titanic supply of WMDs and I think even Republicans such as those on this board should take a step back from the propagandistic and down-right crazy messages being enforced willy nilly and really make a fair and balanced judgement about not only the cultist propaganda surrounding the Bush adminisitration but the state of America in general. Post 9/11, it really is a society in fear, which I think 'Outfoxed' and perhaps more overtly 'Fahrenheit 9/11' capture soberingly well.

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I just watched outfoxed for the first time, and nothing really surprised me. The documentary is nothing more then what Noam Chomsky has been saying for years. However, it was good to see Robert McChesney on the film. Nevertheless, I think the inherent tacit criticism of this film is the problem with large concentration of power which operate as a private tyranny and have the ability to distort, suppress, or ignore information via their first amendment. In this case it’s New Corps. However, it doesn’t matter who it might be. Time Warner, whoever’s government, or your local large corporation such as BBC or CBC in Canada and Britain. All are large concentrated entities with lots of power, with a close connection to the capitalist system will obviously look at the bottom line. Check out Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent, or McChesney’s Rich media poor democracy – communication politics in dubious times.

Hell is other people. Sartre

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Living in the UK and never having seen the Fox News Channel (but I'd recently read that hilarious Al Franken book), I was very interested in seeing this movie and it didn't let me down. I had an abstract idea of what to expect so in some ways, like 'H The C' it didn't surprise me but in other ways it was still a shocking sight to see that its horrors hadn't been exaggerated.
I started off laughing, then I became angry, then I just felt profoundly embarrassed for those who watch Fox and for those who work for it. The U.S.A. has given so much to the world but this channel disgraces the country. Maybe I'm too optimistic but surely even fair-minded Republicans are embarrassed at this thing calling itself a "news" channel?
I wouldn't be surprised if Fox had a big stake in the sale of TVs in the U.S. I have this vision of Democrats, Fair-minded Republicans, Liberals, Progressives, Leftists, Greens and others, watching the channel (in the way that one might be driving down the motorway and see the remnants of some horrible car crash - It'll be sickening to look at but it'll be hard not to look!)and getting so angry at Fox's propagandistic horses_ _ t, that they all put their feet through the screen or throw their televisions out the window (like that famous film of Keith Richards)!
Anyway, I thought this was a very fine film.

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What surprised me most what the poll of Americans who thought Iraq has WMD’s. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE????

Okay, I can understand people watch Fox news. Perhaps they do it religiously. Yet, they MUST have some kind of other media filter through their skulls? Newspapers, the radio…the guy next to him. Jesus.


Hell is other people. Sartre

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That was an excellent posting! Yes, people should really get their news from a wide range of outlets. I once heard Jello Biafra say: "Don't just get a second opinion, get a twenty-second opinion!". Then, people should run everything through their own, cerebral, "bulls_ _ t detector" to find out what they believe to be the truth.
My fear is that Fox is so dumbed down and tabloid that it suppLIES people with a fast food type of "news"; something that doesn't encourage debate or thought. People might go to Fox for an "off the rack" opinion and, when talking about political issues with other people, they just spout Fox soundbites rather than their own, distilled opinion.

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I once heard Jello Biafra


You rock bro! Onc I read that I knew you were cool


I usually don’t use capitals in my posting and I usually don’t get that excited, but honestly Fox needs some passion.

I recall CNN, Toronto Star, etc claim that more and more people are narrowing in and focusing on media that fits their perspective, and their viewpoint. I loathed. While I completely agree with you that we should get a wide variety of media sources, but like Outfoxed showed, along with countless others (McChesney, Chomsky), that when you own large corporate media centers with many outlets of media, tv, newspapers, magazines, etc you can control the public mind of what can and will not be published.

For example if you watch CNN and read time magazine then you’re getting your information from one company who can suppress and ignore information. For example, the Toronto star has reported that Iraq is close to a civil war…I have heard nothing on that on CNN. Or, the LA times, and NY times have both reported about a memo that the British government had about Blair and Bush’s agenda to take out Saddam through military action, and diplomacy was only for show. I haven’t heard that on television. Moreover, on Al Jazeera, a British administrative official specifically said Iraq was for oil. Again, nothing in the major western papers.

It will be a sad day when people only watch of read once source of “news” to shape their minds. It will result of corporations trying to control other corporations and using people as their soldiers. Oh wait…they already do that.


Hell is other people. Sartre

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Back at you! Anybody who's down with Jello Biafra's work gets maximum respect from me.That was another excellent posting. You keep throwing darts and you keep hitting bullseyes.
Back when the majority of rappers tended to rap about what was going on, rather than cars, clothes, money and women, the great Chuck D once said something like: "Rap music is the "CNN" for black people". Biafra, the 'Democratic Underground' site, films (like this one) from this great renaissance in documentary film-making, other infomational outlets as well: I feel that they constitute my "CNN".
My sincere sympathies go out to anyone whose television is able to receive Fox News Channel. Of course, most sentients wouldn't normally watch the thing but, like a wound that you might not be able to stop scratching, even though it hurts, one might still watch it on occasion and get angry and depressed.
That Bill O'Reilly bloke: I wonder how he starts his show? No doubt he's presented to the audience as if he's - cough! - a journalist (serious lighting? dramatic music?) but, from what I've seen of him, it would be more appropriate if he drove onto the studio set while honking the horn of a great big clown car.
I probably won't put any more postings on this board (although I'll keep reading everyone else's thoughts and comments). The reason why is that I feel that talking about Fox News Channel is like (to paraphrase the writer/director Bruce Robinson) looking at a pile of s _ _ t and talking about what shade of brown it is.
Much kudos to people like Al Franken, Robert Greenwald and the many others who have identified that there's a pressing need for the world's biggest pooper-scooper.

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"People might go to Fox for an "off the rack" opinion and, when talking about political issues with other people, they just spout Fox soundbites rather than their own, distilled opinion."
_______________________________________________________


Already happening mate. Just have a read through some of the posts on this message board, or perhaps chat with some determined Bush supporter or FoxNews fan. Aye, FoxNews "FAN", who would actually PAY for a cap with the Bill O'Reilly logo printed on it. Do they have posters of him on their bedroom wall too?

I've done a bit of chatting with American conservatives, and indeed, in some cases you hit the nail right on its head with the term "soundbite". I've even heard some of the lines mocked in Outfoxed accurately quoted word for word. Remember that part about Iraq alledgedly being as safe as California, which is roughly the same geographical size? Yes, I too didn't think anybody could fall for such a misguided attempt to form a valid argument, but I was wrong.

This is better then fast food, this food is already chewed and digested for you. All you need to do is inject it straight into your bloodstream, and let the apathy kick in enjoying the ride that can last a lifetime.

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I'll give Fox some free advice. If they're not manufacturing toilet paper that has the face of each one of their "journalists" on each tear-off piece, then they're missing out on a very lucrative market.

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The other American news networks and European news are no better. This I take from HonestReporting website.

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Joebuss555 you first opened up with comments about world war 2, saying that americans won it FOR the europeans. If you read any history book that is true (which in general you'll have to look outside of america for) you'll find that the yanks were extremely late in both world wars, gave less men per head of population than most other nations involved and in europe it was in fact the russians who did the most winning at the end.

Europeans have every right to tell americans what is right and wrong. The usa has caused so much death, starvation, loss of human rights and pollution that ANYONE from any country has a right to ask them to stop screwing up the world. The only way these atrocities have been able to occur is by mind control of the citizens. I should also add that the usa has done a lot of good for a lot of countries (not enough though) and that person to person, most americans are logical, good people.

On the original topic, I found the doco very well made. I come from New Zealand and here we have an ok media... it is not mindless propoganda like Fox, but it is very far from perfect. We actually get Fox news here live overnight and it is great for a laugh. I don't think many people take it as serious news.

My favourite ever Fox moment was during the 2004 election. Fox has some cool little jingles and graphics for things like "the war on terror" and "homeland security" like these issues are part of a video game or something. Anyway, during the exit polls from the voting booths, one question was "which candidate do you think is better for the war in iraq?" and another was "which candidate do you think is better for the war on terror?". I can't be sure of the exact wording of these things. The majority was higher for Bush on terror and for Kerry on Iraq. The Fox news commentator then said "well, the iraq war was something president bush has been trying to convince people is part of the war on terror, obviously they didnt take that onboard". About five minutes later, that flashy jingle & graphic for the war on terror came up and a story in iraq was given......

There is a funny side to it all. Obviously it is very sad and depressing. But you have to laugh.


"I kick arse for the Lord!" - Braindead

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I would probably try watching some of our (US) Public Broadcasting Station programs. Although this is privately and publically funded, the journalism programs are top notch. I'm not sure if people outside the US receive programs like Frontline, the Lehrer Newshour, or even science shows like NOVA or Nature. So by no means is Fox News pubically-funded (except maybe by the RNC.)

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I saw this last night and I thought it was hilarious. sure I'm just a punk kid who knows nothing but how can... of course you realise Greenwald is using exactly the same tactics as fox. The whole 'Fox Techniques' with the scary graphics and Shutup/some people say monatges made me cringe.
Personally i think Outfoxed wasn't any more 'fair and balanced' than fox is (or was presented, whatever.) If you're going to do an expose on the slanted nature of the media why do it like that? so horribly, horribly biased. If anything Outfoxed made me, oh i don't know really, but i didn't 'buy' what outfoxed was saying, I can only hope Greenwald did that on purpose so people would question everything more instead of believing what was fed to them.

(apologies for grammar etc, I'm lazy and it's late)

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Ok, i read this post halfway through, and just wanted to write my opinion. Im from Denmark.

This movie is great, and Fox sucks! You dont have leftwing mainstream newschannels in america, so stop claiming to.
Our political party, which is furthest to the right, isnt as extreme as your "democrates", whom you clame to be leftwing nuts.

Stop saying your *beep* "if is werent for us helping you in 1944", most of the allied casualties (not counting russian), during that invasion were english.
And you own France MORE than that anyway. If not for them, you wouldnt have managed to become independent in the first place. Check your history retards! (only pointed at the facist republicans).

You cant use the argument: "if is so crap, why is it the #1 station", NASDP was also the #1 political party, and was voted to power by the majority of the german people in the 1930's (and yes, NASDP were the Nazis).

The whole reason why so many europeans dont like americans is because most of them think with their a**'es. You think its ok to dictate the world, and gets upset if other countries dont think you'r right.
If Fox news is #1 it just proves how misinformed and stupid you are, and makes someone like me against you trying to run the "show". (Didn't mean to offend the americans with the brain still intact).
USA doesn't follow international laws and conventions either, they think they are the "good-guys" so why should they. They also can't see that people doesn't appreciate their countries being invaded, it never accures to them that the image of "the good-guy" is an image earned, not self announced.

What!? The land of the free?! Whoever told you that is your ENEMY!

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If you come to think of it Berlusconi owns much of the media in Italy, also in Russia, Belarus and other Eastern European Nations there is not much free press. What`s interesting about Fox is the way they manipulate viewers, and that`s cuting edge. If do have here channels that say you see that guy isn`t good vote for the other guy but in a very unprofessional way. Also many countries have the experience of communism and state propaganda, so, trying to get them again to believe or to missleed them is sometimes challenging for the news media. I do however believe that Fox doesn`t play fiar and on the long term they are going to pay the price. Abraham Lincoln, a republican, was the one to say that: "You can lie to most of the people most of the time, but not to all of the people, all the time."

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I just have to say, as an American who has been studying and living in Finland for the past 14 months, I have enjoyed this board very much.

The only thing I ask of Europeans out there is this: please don't automatically assume that all Americans believe what they see on FOX news...I for one do not! I feel that I am often judged wrongly because of my nationality. I get my news from many sources and more importantly, I use my brain to reach my own conclusions. I get frustrated when I am treated as the "stereotypical" American and that somehow I am responsible for the Iraq invasion, Abu Ghraib, the US not signing the Kyoto agreement, the bombing of Hiroshima, and the proliferation of McDonald's restaraunts everywhere! Please, be kind! If I had any ability to change any of these, I wouldn't be here on imdb....I would be busy with more important things!!!


C'est la vie!

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I am a journalism student from the uk and had to watch this as part of my coursework. I must admit that myself and my classmated found the actions of O'Reilly pretty shocking, especially when he was telling the guy who signed the anti-war petition what his father thought. How would O'Reilly know? But I thought it was a really interesting movie/documentary. I never realised how Fox presented news their news.
One of the points we discussed in class was that maybe the movie was being too hypocritical against Fox. Did they go too far against the network or were they just simply presenting the facts? If anyone had any opinions on this, i love to hear them as I have an essay to write soon!
Also, we compared the network to Al-Jazeera, the Arabic newstation. Do they do just the same but from the other side?
Any thoughts much appreciatted.

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Hello there!

I’ll give you a pretty simple answer to your question. If there is no proof of Outfoxed fabricating facts, it is not hypocritical to make such a documentary. However, making a news reportage in the same way, avoiding any counter argument, you would certainly be hypocritical. One thing that one needs to keep in mind in terms of Outfoxed, which is a low budged production, is how difficult it would be to have a representative currently working at FoxNews come on to refute the arguments raised. You saw yourself how some chose to keep their anonymity, and I assume for good reason. Of course if the documentary should be more balanced, having the counter arguments represented would be essential.

Have a look at Media Matters for America www.mediamatters.org, to investigate this matter further. See how Bill O’Reilly vigorously attempts to discredit this website without evidence, while the website itself has both video and audio footage of numerous lies of his. He even reassert his lies about Jeremy Glick (the anti-war guy you mentioned), never showing video to prove these claims, assuming his audience simply will take his word for it. As Glick appeared on his own show, it should be a simple task to produce such video footage IF his claims were truthful. However, they are blatant lies.

I myself is a graduated media studies bachelor (from UK too), and have followed FoxNews for a while now. As far as I can see, Outfoxed is truthfully portraying this "Fair and balanced news institution" and thereby not hypocritical. All news institutions have ideological leanings that relate to their target audience, but in the case of FoxNews it’s not just an ideological leaning, rather a blatant and vigorous bias that often passes over to plain lying. This is where the “Al-Jazeera is also bias” argument looses its relevance.

Though, mind you, FoxNews with figureheads like O’Reilly, Hume and Hanity, is not the only media institution/personality that proclaim to be truthful, but stumble into spinning and simple lying quite often. Like Rush Limbaugh who claim that Europe didn’t have toilets before America came along (http://mediamatters.org/items/200506100004). This isn’t just a miner local radio pundit either, but a radio personality with a huge audience all over America.

One thing I see very often on all the American news institutions (including ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN etc), is “journalists” failing to challenge questionable assertions from their guests. That way their own credibility is not at question, but the questionable assertions are maintained though choice of guest and lack of investigative journalism.

Good luck with your essay.

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Thanks for the response Jaxedd, you make some really valid points. I especially liked your view on how the film was portraying "Fair and Balanced" news so is not hypocritical. I'm in the process of writing my essay now (Nov. 4th deadline)so I will probably quote the media matters website when my essay comes to discussing O'Reilly. I also appreciate your good luck wishes. Thanks again.

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