MovieChat Forums > The New World (2006) Discussion > FOUR EDITORS...and its some of the badde...

FOUR EDITORS...and its some of the baddest editing ive seen in my life


how the hell does that happen? This movie had 4 editors. this has got to be one of the worst films i've ever seen, and it just boggles my mind how such a riveting story(and quite easy to be told) of Pocahontas can be screwed up in almost every imaginable way. how?
Where the hell did Terrence Malick learn filmmaking? The 1 million jump cuts, incoherent story and mess of action and directing, is just jarringly bad. i don't know how people pass this as a movie?

Some of the photography was nice looking but my god- i would've thought that the story and actually keeping the viewer WANTING to watch the movie would be more important than the fvcking cinematography.
i mean i can list numerous things wrong with the film(something a "LEGENDARY" filmmaker(or so he is called-Terrence Malick):
-constant jump cuts(just amateurish) it almost became laughable at some points
-editing random shots here and there mid-point of story: there were numerous points where characters were standing talking to each other, and then we'd keep on cutting back to shots of indians or the lake or the sky at TOTALLY innapropriate times) it was like the director and editor felt like doing what the hell they wanted OTHER than keeping it consistent and coherent.
-the music by James Horner was godawful. and i am sad to be saying that about one of my favorite composers...but the entire score comprised of nothing but incredibly quiet strings or annoying repetitive themes, that just didn't go anywhere.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM was the fact that I didn't give a damn about any of these characters. and its totally weird since I've seen this story told numerous times, but each time a new director retells the story, he knows how connect the characters to the audience. Terrence Malick gives us absolutely NO character development on any of the characters. and the romance between John Smith and Pocahontas was one of the most unmotivated, god-awfully executed things ever. you keep wondering why the hell they like each other so much. nothing indicates why they even like each other, or romantically involved. I couldn't even get to Christian Bale as Rolfe. god.

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Given that Billy Weber (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0916502/), who edited Days of Heaven, The Thin Red Line and is working on The Tree of Life is given an "associate producer" credit on The New World, I'd say it's likely that at least five editors worked on the film.

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[deleted]

This movie is a masterpiece! A true work of art. Poetry in motion! The most beautiful of story telling. Direction and editing was so highly skilled that only the intelligent can read beyond the poetic dialogue and interpret the cutting choices for a deeper more soulful meaning into the relationship of Pochahontis & Captain Smith.... This movie assumes the audience is smart enough to not have everything spelled out through exposition....Anyone who does not understand the editing choices, does not know how to think outside the generic box.....

Like great poetry, this movie requires contemplation and upon reflection, one's soul is stirred to depths beyond the ordinary. You will lose yourself and find yourself all over again. The unconventional editing is brilliantly poetic, allowing the audience to enter the minds of our characters, as well as telling a story within a story, all the while for those who have been blessed to have known such deep soulful love, evoking that which resides deep within each of us. This movie may be misunderstood by those who have not yet experienced the unleashing of such a deep love and the joy and pain that accompanies it. Most live to one's death without ever having discovered such passion for another.
... End of line.

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[deleted]

That essentially what it boils down to. The original massage was that of wholly misunderstanding the order and meaning of the film. He also totally misunderstand the service that Malick has to offer. I agree that insulting someones intelligence isn't how one should dress up a film, but the film isn't meant to be. I have no problem calling this production art, and art is not meant to be explain scientifically. With this being art, the OP has also degraded himself in trying to do such a thing and, also, missing the point of what a piece of art should be critiqued.

With that said, I'm not going to shy away from the point of the post you replayed to because I think it is a good one. Sometimes it takes education to understand what art has to offer to our culture.

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[deleted]


offering your credentials.... LMFAO

...only to slam malick?

the proof is in your pudding, sir. (your comment itself)


maybe you are SOOO 'smart' that you outsmarted yourself from enjoying something visceral, something ethereal, something existential?


------------------
"Whats this day of rest sh!t? Whats this BULLLL SH_T? I dont f@ckin care! It dont matter to Jesus!"

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And see, just what I said, those who don't get it do the same thing.

You just spouted off credentials and then declared it to be a bad, boring film, case closed (unless you are dumb and think it's actually somehow deep, meaningful, powerful, etc. of course, right?).

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intelligent/not smart enough are perhaps not the best terms to use, but it seems clear that some are able to read certain forms of story-telling more easily than others. But I'm sure there are people with 180 IQs who wouldn't appreciate this movie. Perhaps if you are more musical/math/visual/non-linear oriented this film works better than if you are more detail to detail/verbally oriented? I don't know. Whatever the case some people are obviously not getting deeply touched by it and how it was made and some are. Everything the OP thought was a joke or didn't make sense or work, made sense and worked for me.

I've seen both sides toss out the non intelligent enough thing, one side at those who don't get it because well they don't get it and the other side because they think it's just dumb visuals and music and beneath them or something.

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baddest

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Malick isn't much of a storyteller, but no doubt he works with a competent cinematographer.

Consider that before renting another one of his films.
Could save you hours of your life.

Don't watch his movies, you'll have little complain about.

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From the International Cinematographers Guild article Once Upon A Time In America:

EDITING

Richard Chew, Saar Klein and Hank Corwin had to approach the editing of The New World with a completely different set of mental tools.

For one, they had to forget that Malick would be talking to the actors throughout the take. “He’s like the captain of a river boat—he guides the actors around obstacles and pushes them in directions they haven’t really experienced,” says Richard Chew. “Sometimes, it is to get them to go beyond the preconceptions they have for the characters. Other times, it is trying to catch a spontaneity and freshness.

“One of his favorite things was to throw an actor off by having him or her do dialogue from a different place in a new place. This constant change and his constant comments encouraged most of the actors to new heights—although, in a few cases, veterans tended to want to work in a different way.”

“It was strange,” admits Chew. “It created more technical problems, in that we would pick a piece that looked like what he wanted and have to ignore the overlap of Terry’s dialogue and the actors’. Looping dialogue was just part of what we knew we had to do.”

It wasn’t just Malick’s dialogue that the team had to ignore. They also had to separate themselves from the dialogue. For them, one of the most fascinating things was to listen to the wonderful period English mixed with Algonquin that Malick had written—and know that he was going to throw almost all of it out—for a bit that was much more emotional visually.

“Terry ‘green dots’ on the avid,” adds Klein. “It is a button that allows you to put a marker on things that you like. Terry chose green. Why green? Good question.” Whatever the answer, it was in Terry Malick’s head. And, on the film. A mark that all three editors would look for, then scratch their heads and try to understand “how” to make the shot work.

Another of Malick’s ‘dogma’ was “being very selective in the type of shots that he likes and those that he doesn’t,” adds Saar Klein. “If a shot didn’t have visual strength, it wasn’t in the film. “We needed to understand what he deemed to be a ‘strong shot’—or we’d be in for a lot of guess work.”

“He has a strong philosophical approach to shot selection, emotional content and the music of nature,” Hand Corwin agrees. “For Terry, having the sound of the right bird is as true as any shot. Our playing field had many dimensions.”

“We also had to understand that Terry likes the eccentric frame,” adds Chew. “Nothing can be right on. In editing, he was always telling us not to use too perfectly framed shots. He wanted to be on a shoulder or see part of the face or cut the face in half. Or he’d like being behind the person. One of his favorite angles is over the shoulder to relate distance and relationship between two characters.”

All three editors also had the words “deep focus” burned into their brains. Malick insisted on that style. They knew that “stuff” had to be going on in the foreground, middle ground and background. They were constantly looking for footage that showed life going on around the characters. That was what they would emphasize in the editing.

“We had incredibly beautiful images helped by the accuracy of the location, production design, costuming and the freedom the actors had because the film was shot without lights getting in the way,” says Chew. “Editing everything together was an exercise in learning what minute pieces in the massive amount of footage expressed Terry’s ideas. And, not feeling that we missed the mark, if we were batting 200, when it came to guessing what he had in mind.

“Yes, The New World was totally different from anything I’ve ever edited. And one of the most amazing projects I’ve ever worked on!”


http://www.cameraguild.com/index.html?magazine/stoo1105.htm~top.main_h p

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BADDEST?

LOL!

Yeah, you seem like a really smart, perceptive person that deserves serious adoration.

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Lol, "baddest" sounds like a compliment. I think the OP means "worst."






"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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That article pretty much sums up Malick. He focuses on the cinematography and forgets about the rest (and that shows).

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That article pretty much sums up Malick. He focuses on the cinematography and forgets about the rest (and that shows).


That article wasn't written about "the rest". It was written about the editing and Malick's shooting style. But it seems that you don't know much about Malick, except for whatever unsubstantiated opinions you hold to back up your bias statements. Malick spends just as much time, if not more, on his preproduction, as he does in the editing room.

You just need to get off the Malick message board, because this isn't the first time you've said something irrelevant. If you truly believe Malick is a horrible director, can you please tell us who you prefer?

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Malick spends just as much time, if not more, on his preproduction, as he does in the editing room.

Just because you use a lot of time on something doesn't mean it's any good.

If you truly believe Malick is a horrible director, can you please tell us who you prefer?

Stanley Kubrick. He tried to make a perfect movie, not just a movie that looks perfect.

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[deleted]

Oh please, stop with the bullcrap. You could use that same excuse for Ed Wood. Nobody understood him either.

I can't understand why Malick's fans are incapable of seeing his faults. After all, he is just a man and not a deity.

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Actually I would call this man a shaman, someone who is in touch with forces and feelings and ideas and hum man understanding that us norms are just not able to see. It would take us twenty years just to divine the meaning of one of this guys films, let alone create art on the same scale! Any artist working on his level is a deity in my opinion.

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The editing was a bit annoying, during conversations it seemed to be all over the place, the cuts seemed to be random and pointless. :S

The music drove me mad at the end! When she was running around the garden to the shots of America, it was so repetetive and loud it was a relief when it stopped.

I wasn't very impressed by the film and I hate the comment I've read that you have to be a real film person to love this and bascially those that don't are stupid and don't understand cinema. To me it was like a giant perfume advert with shots of them running and then looking back at each other with voice overs like "Who are you?" Have you seen a chanel advert recently? It didn't seem to be structured well and she dies so suddenly at the end it's weird. :\

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"The music drove me mad at the end! When she was running around the garden to the shots of America, it was so repetetive and loud it was a relief when it stopped."

The music is Wagner's Vorspiel to Das Rheingold. To me, Wagner made the film.

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Agreed, the Wagner piece at the beginning and end was used brilliantly, much like Saint-Saens' Carnival of the Animals in Days of Heaven. The end of this film was my favorite part; it was beautiful!

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"The music drove me mad at the end! When she was running around the garden to the shots of America, it was so repetetive and loud it was a relief when it stopped. "

Whoa, that was one of the most deeply moving and powerful scenes in the entire film for me and the music could not have been more glorious and apropos as far as I was concerned!

"and she dies so suddenly at the end it's weird. :\"

Umm well she did just suddenly die in real life to then so....

???

What do you want? Some magical Disney recreation where she sales off with Smith and they find the fountain of youth and live forever with a flock of mermaid friends?

The cuts were providing emotion, remembrances, connections past-present-past, etc.

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I completely agree. One of the worse movies I have ever seen.

The girl CAN act,though.

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Yeah, this film has got the BADDEST editing and is one of the WORSE I have ever seen.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you try and detract from someone's work at least do so with some forethought.
Christ.

PS
I, personally, thought it was one of the best films of the decade.
I also happen to think that, after Kubrick, Malick is hands down the best American director.

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[deleted]

Given that the word "baddest" does not exist in the English language, but is in fact slang meaning "the best" I guess the original poster LOVED the editing!

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I know what Malick is going for with editing and I think he achieved that in The Thin Red Line, which was brilliant. But here, the movie is over-edited. There are scenes that are cut right in the middle of something happening or being said. There is no rhyme or reason for it.

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I agree with the original poster in deploring the editing -- I find the pace in all of Malick's films to be unsettling: it does not absorb us into the film, which is, in my opinion, absolutely essential for a film to be successful (I do not mean that in the commercial sense). Someone compared him to Kubrick; well all I can say is this: your standards have obviously fallen substantially, and if Malick were to approach Kubrick's level of excellence, he should start by editing his films himself, something which obviously was not the case here.

I believe that there is genius here, but that it is unevenly spread though the film; holistically the film fails, though that does not make it a failure as such.

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"It does not absorb us into the film".

Drop the "us" please. And while The Thin Red Line & The New World do have some occasional pacing issues, his first two are perfect in these regards (as well as pretty much all other regards).


"He should start by editing himself".

So Martin Scorsese or David Lynch aren´t great filmmakers because they (mostly - in Lynch´s case) don´t edit their films themselves?




"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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I don't mean to imply that quality films cannot be made unless the director/author is fully involved in the whole movie-making procedure, including having an active if not decisive role in the editing process; however, you made a remark about Stanley Kubrick, who was notorious for wanting to control every aspect of his films, even if that meant editing it alone at a snail's pace. Furthermore, I have always been in awe of his work.
Since editing is the key issue for me in this movie, I thought it pertinent to point out that perhaps playing a more active role in that portion of the film-making process would have smoothed the edges of an otherwise jagged picture

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[deleted]

But why do you think Malick didn´t have a decisive role in the editing process? I´m quite certain no decision concerning any aspect of the film ended up in the finished work without his approval.

As for the alleged jaggedness... I dunno, I´ve seen TNW 3 times and don´t recall anything of the sort having bothered me. Do you have some specific examples or instances where you felt the editing was off?



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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To each his own yo, I was captivated by this movie from beginning to end. Malick's not for everyone...cuz he's the baddest mothafvcker alive.

Even the most primitive society has an innate respect for the insane.

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A good example of bad editing would be the scene where Smith returns to the camp and is almost shot by that guy who had taken over leadership. A gun goes off and we see somebody fall to the ground and it's the guy who tried to shoot him. What I can gather from that scene is that his gun malfunctioned, but that could have been shown much better.

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He was shot by someone else and the scene shows it quite clearly. Watch it again.

"We played with life and lost." - Jules et Jim, François Truffaut.

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[deleted]

Editing should be fluent, so that you don't pay much attention to it and enjoy the film, but that was not the case with New World.

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[deleted]

And while The Thin Red Line & The New World do have some occasional pacing issues, his first two are perfect in these regards (as well as pretty much all other regards).

Give me a break. Days of Heaven's editing is atrocious. Just when it gets interesting a whole new scene starts or he cuts right in the middle of a sentence. A good film edit is when you don't think about the editing.

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Give me a break. Days of Heaven's editing is atrocious. Just when it gets interesting a whole new scene starts or he cuts right in the middle of a sentence. A good film edit is when you don't think about the editing.


"A good film edit is when you don't think about the editing?!" You couldn't be more wrong. That's the POINT of a jump cut. It seems that you're backing up "escapism" in film.

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Have to agree with Verdoux-1 here: A good film edit is when you don't think about the editing.

I want to be immersed in the story and only later, maybe on second viewing, can I go on and analyse the technical aspects of a film that helped me to get immersed in the story. When the editing is so clumsy / brilliant / artsy / lazy (take your pick) that it detracts from my enjoyment of the story that is being told, that's not a good thing.

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Actually, this film absorbed me more fully than practically any other.
And the pacing was perfection as far as I was concerned.

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Thanks sanstereo - "baddest" and "worse" jumped out at me as typical examples of the bad grammar and syntax which are all to common on IMDB message boards.

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the editing was radical, but it worked to great effect

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oh man are you an editor?... a professional one that makes movies and get paid for it? Or a douchebag that likes to think he knows what he is talking about?

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