MovieChat Forums > What the #$*! Do We (K)now!? (2004) Discussion > This movie proves why western education ...

This movie proves why western education corrupts open-mindedness


I am an atheist, and I have always wanted to prove how ignorant in life people are who are too book-smart. This commentary on IMDB I think says about all there is needed. This was a monumental movie that pushes new ideas, regardless of how valid in "current" scientific thought.

The reality is that all of the people I have met who love this movie and follow some of it's principles are the happiest and most successful financial people I know. Meanwhile, the tenured close-minded science community will forever meddle in their ignorant need to be right and will miss the entire point to this movie and life. They will be the last to admit on how ignorant they really are in the year 2008. Our minds will seem like apes in 200-500 years. So how can they be so right? It's in their emotional makeup and lack of love from their parents... which led to little patience.

On their deathbed, I doubt they will be thinking of how happy they were to dog this movie, instead they will remain the miserable people they are that is easily picked up in their tone from the responses. Get a life people!

Instead of being so negative, try some takt and take the new concepts and seeing how they may be applied to life today. A 100 years from now as we look back, the folks in this WTB community will be a lot further along in enabling human consiousness than someone messing around with a quark who happened to post a negative comment towards this movie and missed the point.

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Yes, your taste in movies is downright awful. It's obvious that you only like movies that appeal to the lowest common denominator, so why are you still here complaining about the movie that obviously exceeds your intellectual capacity?

If you think this movie is "intellectual", this is proof that you are both philosphically and scientifically illiterate.

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That's funny in a sad way.

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I don't think faith and science fall within the same framework. Mistakenly, we have been trying to put them together, as if we were to find a single answer, but we fail to realize that they work completely separate. And just like there is no place for religion in science, there shouldn't be any science in religion. Religion doesn't need science to exist and science doesn't need religion.

I didn't like the movie as a physics movie, and precisely being advertised as a physics movie is what makes it bad, but I really liked the philosophical and psychological concepts they expose. And in the end I think it really manages to get the title sounding "What the Bleep do we know?"

I remember a good jewish story I heard months ago about two identical twin babies talking in the womb. One of them assumes the world is as it is inside, dark and small; and the other one believes there are many things that come afterwards "a new birth" perhaps...

In the end we are like these babies. And I think none of us knows the truth, atheists or believers. Science works of course. But our understanding is too small to determine what is true and what should be discarded. I mean , we have a place in Earth called Finisterra, and I bet no one felt stupid back then "knowing" it was where the world ends.

Atheists, please stop trying to convert people to your side. You're no different to Jehova's witnesses knocking on people's door every thursday.


He's been dead all along

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And I think none of us knows the truth, atheists or believers. Science works of course.


And why does it work? Because it is based on evidence rather than faith, and as an institution, it has checks and balances because it recognizes that humans are flawed beings who constantly deceive themselves and make mistakes. So science is constantly revising its models, and scientists are constantly critiquing each other.

Religion has none of these properties.

So I am afraid that the atheist picture of reality is much closer to the truth than that of mindless "believers", precisely because we are careful in how we think about reality, whereas believers are utterly reckless.

But our understanding is too small to determine what is true and what should be discarded.


No, it isn't. We figure out what is true and what should be discarded all the time. It's easy--just use your reason and base your beliefs on verifiable evidence.

Atheists, please stop trying to convert people to your side.


Basically, this translates to: "If you are an atheist, shut up." Do you know what you can do with that sentiment? Stick it up your dumb arse, that's what you can do.

You're no different to Jehova's witnesses knocking on people's door every thursday.


Oh, really? Since when has an atheist knocked on your door, moron? I'm 100% willing to bet that the only time you ever encounter an atheist is when you voluntarily go to a place on the internet where an atheist or two is hanging out. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, go away. No one forces you to read what we post.


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Dude you're such a troll.

And you're proving my point precisely. Atheists like you tend to get aggressive when it comes to faith-- yes, like many believers. And what really concerns me is that atheists are creating a general sentiment and hatred towards religious people. I don't mind atheists, everyone should believe what they want. But neither religious extremists or many atheists seem to be happy with that idea.


We figure out what is true and what should be discarded all the time. It's easy--just use your reason and base your beliefs on verifiable evidence.


That is a very empirical way of thinking. Truth is such an objective concept. You should read "A treatise concerning the principles of human knowledge" by George Berkeley. I think you will find it interesting.

Look, I dont have anything against atheists. Who am I to judge on other people's beliefs? But I hate when atheists claim to know the absolute truth. And even worse they call us believers stupid, naive, brainwashed etc. Even Einstein said he would prefer to be associated with clergy rather than with atheists.

I'm an engineer, my work relies heavily on science. I believe on science. I love science. And this is why I say that science and religion dont really fall within the same framework. I see science as the "how" and religion as the "why". But thats just my personal opinion, and just like I don't think you're a moron for being an atheists you shouldn't think I'm a moron for being a believer.

All I ask for is coexistance. And I think many people on both sides (atheists and believers) are not willing to negotiate it.

And you have to admit that atheism (not agnosticism) is becoming just as extreme and paradoxically faith based as some religions. If not, look at the whole socialist/communist movement in the 60's.

He's been dead all along

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And you're proving my point precisely.


I'm sure that anything proves any point you want to believe in.

Atheists like you tend to get aggressive when it comes to faith-- yes, like many believers.


When I am told that I need to shut up and sit in the corner-a rude, condescending, aggressive statement in its own right-I will respond with immediate aggression. As an atheist I've come to find this attitude common among believers and religious accommodationists, and I think that as a community we must always respond right back and let people know we will not tolerate such attitudes. Deal with it.

And what really concerns me is that atheists are creating a general sentiment and hatred towards religious people.


No, that is not what is happening.

What is happening is that for centuries the religious have felt that religious belief by its nature deserves some sort of special respect we do not reserve for any other kind of belief. Now that atheists are actually being openly critical of religious claims in best selling books and popular blogs, you people are crying like little babies. Grow up and deal with it. Telling you your beliefs are highly suspect is not hatred.

That is a very empirical way of thinking.


Yes, it's good to base your beliefs on the clues reality actually gives you about its nature.

You should read "A treatise concerning the principles of human knowledge" by George Berkeley. I think you will find it interesting.


Been there, done that-I majored in philosophy and continue to keep up with the field, so I have quite likely forgotten more about this kind of material than you will ever learn. Not because I'm particularly smart, just an obsessed geek.

Look, I don't have anything against atheists.


I'm not buying that for a second, kiddo. You wouldn't say that a certain class of persons needs to keep their thoughts to themselves if you didn't have a hatred issue. Looks like you are doing a lot of projection.

I hate when atheists claim to know the absolute truth.


Please cite an atheist in his or her own words claiming to know the absolute truth, or admit that your head is stuck up your arse and you have no idea what you are talking about.

I see science as the "how" and religion as the "why".


Yes, you've been taught to parrot the rhetoric quite well, that is obvious. I'm very familiar with this talking point.

Here is my standard response to that canard:

Give me one legitimate, non-question begging why question that any religion has answered to the satisfaction of believers and non-believers alike, that is even remotely comparable to the sorts of how questions science answers time and time and time again, to everyone's satisfaction. Good luck with that!

All I ask for is coexistance. And I think many people on both sides (atheists and believers) are not willing to negotiate it.


I don't negotiate with people who tell me I need to keep my mouth shut. I fight with them, because such suggestions are tantamount to war in my mind.

And you have to admit that atheism (not agnosticism) is becoming just as extreme and paradoxically faith based as some religions.


I admit no such thing. In your mind, any atheist who speaks up is "extreme", and if you use the "faith" word in reference to us, you just prove you don't have a clue about what the word means.

That's just how you people operate. I'm used to it.

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>>I am an atheist<<



And yet you're sitting here defending unproven theological beliefs.
Funny concept of atheism you have.


The New Age zombies love to accuse anybody who relies on objectivity, fact and science of being "close-minded", and yet their delusional and solipsistic adherence to unsubstantiated ideologies invariably amounts to them shutting their eye and ears and humming very loudly.

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This comes over six years too late, but here goes..

Human beings can be corrupted. Politicians can be corrupted. The system can be corrupt.

But how can a mental concept, like "mindedness" be corrupted? It can't.

Or if you'd like to explain exactly how that happens or can happen, I am ready to hear you out. I just can't see it happening. Concepts can't be corrupted, they remain eternally the same. Teachings of concepts can be, however, but that's not the same thing.

So I'd say your topic is a lie.

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I'm not trying to refute your main point but I do believe that mental concepts can be corrupted. However, I seems to me that they aren't usually corrupted by outside influences. We can allow life experience to effect our understanding or trust in the mental concepts that once formed our life philosophy. If you kick an optimistic person in the teeth enough times, there is a good chance that you will see optimism replaced by cynicism or pessimism.


Call me Snake

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Well it is true that people who say that they are open minded usually are not.

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Wanna know where you went off the rails?

I have always wanted to prove how ignorant in life people are who are too book-smart.


When dogma becomes obsession, you lose perspective, and when you lose perspective, you embrace ignorance. Why not just spend your life trying to find out what makes each person intelligent, then decide for yourself what you want to believe? Why make proving that people you dislike are "ignorant" a life goal?

Incidentally, I haven't watched the movie we're talking about. I came here because of another board and read some threads to get an idea of the quality and subject matter of the movie before investing my time and money. So far, it's not looking good, but if I ever do form an opinion on the movie, it'll be because I chose to watch it, not because I have an agenda to prove anyone, including myself, knowledgeable or ignorant.

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