MovieChat Forums > Caché (2006) Discussion > fans of haneke are intelligent people

fans of haneke are intelligent people


people who love haneke's films are often very smart, and many people who don't like them are stupid.

that's why it's so hard being intelligent, but not liking haneke's cinema.

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[deleted]

Poor sentence structure is a good indication of the fact that you are a moronic discharge from a wang. The idea that there is NO correlation between taste in art and film and intelligence is utterly absurd. You may as go all out and just state that NOTHING is an indication of high intelligence and all human beings are equally smart because hey, *beep* reality, why be honest about things if it could upset someone?

The Ironman fans are of lower intelligence than those who enjoy Haneke and Von Trier. Some people are more equal than others. Get the mother *beep* *beep* over it.

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[deleted]

I am on your mothers dick although it isn't a dick, it's a vagina and it is purple and rancid. I think you infected it on your way out.

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Von Trier's fans are depressed snobs with no love for life. Pessimistic weirdo's who love themselves for being 'different'. If you love Von Trier - there must be something wrong with your brain.

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On0p00rbaby. Can't understand his dark sense of humour or appreciate beauty in anger and melancholy? Cry yourself a river.

I love being different because it means that unlike you, I am not a mindless sheep who eats McDonalds, thinks The Avengers is the hight of cinematic achievment and that pop radio is awesome. Go *beep* yourself.

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Hey there thumbsucker, the things you wrote hardly describe me, although judging from your rage I've hit the nail on the head when it comes to your pathetic self. Just jerk in your dark corner, you're ugly inside and you know it :)

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Yes my organs don't look very nice. That is why I rarely take them out.

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I think the implication that intelligence holds sway over artistic opinion is a tad broad and baseless. Art is inherently subjective and how people feel about it is partly critical thinking but also highly emotional, the emotional factor is very important.

I can think an artistic work, of any medium, is very well constructed but get no sense of feeling from it and yet other times I get a strong emotional response to art for reasons that are not clear to me.

I have only seen one Haneke film to date and it was Funny Games, I found it genuinely awful as a film, the premise was interesting but I found the execution to ham fisted, blunt, lacking in intelligence and subtlety. Others, however, may and do disagree quite strongly. The beauty of art means that my opinion, nor of those that oppose me, are inherently wrong.

I am actually soon to watch Cache and have very high expectations that I will enjoy it and perhaps I will like Haneke's work overall. I think that disliking something isn't a lack of intelligence, but for people who come to say a movie "sucked and was boring" with making an attempt to articulate or understand why they disliked the movie show a lack of intelligence.




What came first, the music or the misery?

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You're very right about the subjectiveness of (opinions about) art, of course, and the importance of the emotional factor, definitely.

By the way, I quite liked Funny Games exactly because it had such a strong emotional effect on me, although it's definitely a bit of a crude film.

I don't like Caché as much as many other people do (despite obvious qualities), because I feel the film is somehow cheating on its own protagonist. I shouldn't say more if you haven't seen it yet.

By the way, I personally like Haneke's first film, Der Siebente Kontinent, much more than Funny Games or Caché. In some ways it is not a very subtle film either, maybe even a blunt one. But then subtleness isn't Haneke's forte, I guess.

Maybe Haneke is especially blunt in the way he films, the way he shows things. Often also he is not very subtle when dealing with the psychology of his characters (in 'La Pianiste' for example). And he's very straightforward and one-dimensional in putting upfront certain ideas or concepts (Funny Games), or in delivering social commentary (Code Inconnu). But in a way, the lack of subtleness in his films, is not necessarily a bad thing. I can sometimes appreciate his directness and sharp focus.

On the other hand, he is subtle often in the way he conceals certain information to the viewer, and how he plays with viewer's expectations (Das Weisse Band, Caché, Der Siebente Kontinent). And in the way he creates moral complexities and ambiguity (Benny's Video, Das Weisse Band).

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"The film is somehow cheating on its protagonist".

What do you mean by that? And you shouldn`t really worry about spoilers.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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Well, it's been a while since I watched it, and it's not easy for me to explain in English, which is not my first language... but I'll give it a try.

(By the way, in my previous post, I wrote 'concealing to', which should have been 'concealing from', I guess.)

(SPOILER ALERT!!!)

Without going too much into detail, because then I'm gonna be typing for hours, basically, Haneke pulls off a kind of 'meta-trick', somehow similar to certain things he does in Funny Games and Das Weisse Band.

In the film, there is a classic, thriller-like 'mystery': who is sending the protagonist video tapes with images from his house? And why? (Similar to Lost Highway, in fact.) We find out gradually that there is some unresolved business from the protagonist's past, which might be haunting him. In the end, there turns out to be no logical solution to the basic mystery. The only person who could have filmed and sent the tapes is, well, Haneke himself, somehow breaking through the narrative, and intervening in the fictional world of the protagonist.

Now, because of the way the protagonist reacts to being 'watched', and deals with his past, he becomes a symbol for Western bourgeois arrogance. But in a way, I always felt that, as a person, he didn't really get a fair chance to react differently, because of the absurdness of the situation he is in: having to deal with things that happen in his reality, which are being controlled and manipulated by someone from another reality.

Also, the character being somehow trapped in an experiment led by the director (which, I admit, in a way all characters from all movies are), prevents him from becoming a 'real', nuanced character. I'm having a hard time sympathising with the plight of a character which has 'symbol' written all over it, in a narrative that has 'construct' written all over it. It's all just a bit too contrived.

Most importantly, I don't think Caché gains a lot in content or depth, through this very artificial construct. I think the themes in the film could have been perfectly adressed if the film would have been a more conventional thriller, without the meta-stuff. I guess I feel that, if you decide to do something as (relatively) radical as what Haneke does here, you better have a really good reason for doing so, content-wise.

Anyway, that was my reaction to it a couple of years ago, when I watched it for the second time. It might be different if I'd watch it again now.

On the other hand, I have seen Der Siebente Kontinent twice, and twice I was truly blown away by it, without any reservations. It's a radically dark and bleak film, a ruthless film, but very powerful, and much sharper in its dissection of modern Western society. If you ask me. Also, it has the amazing 'toilet shot': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6PN-8MOZnw

And if I just want to see a good, paranoid thriller, I can always watch The Conversation, one of my all-time favourites, for the hundredth time.

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"Similar to Lost Highway, in fact".

I guess Haneke probably liked this kind of abstract entrance into the story too much to have it any other way - which may or may not have been an aesthetic miscalculation. Obviously, Cache is a very different kind of film than LH, where internalization, subjectivity of experience is an organic part of its whole language, while Haneke`s handiwork is a much broader sociopolitical allegory which is also rendered in his typically clinical, unfancy, somewhat arid style - which, again, some might consider an ill fit with such a meta-device. I dunno. Can`t say it bothered me too much.


"As a person, he didn`t really get a fair chance to react differently".

But if he did react differently, he wouldn`t accurately reflect the mindset of post-colonial France anymore - he `needs` to be in agitated denial. And why would we need to sympathize with him, anyway? Also, when it comes to him not being a sufficiently nuanced character... well, he`s obviously a bit of a sociopath and that`s the thing with sociopaths - they`re not particularly multidimensional or interesting once take a closer look. I guess the whole thing indeed `could have` been done as a straight-forward thriller, and maybe it would have been more effective for it, but hey... At least this meta level wasn`t shoved down my throat as single mindedly and obnoxiously as it was in Funny Games.




"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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please do not talk about art with this garbage movie.
if this movie is so artistic, then this director is worthy to be classified at the same level as Fellini or Hitchcock?
absolutely non sense.

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One person disliking something does not make it less of an art to someone else. Thus 'subjective'.




What came first, the music or the misery?

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"If this movie is so artistic, then this director is worthy to be classified at the same level as Fellini or Hitchcock?"

Say, what?


"Absolutely non sense".

Pretty much nonsense indeed.




"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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how pretentious!!!

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[deleted]

I wouldn't consider movie buffs with a preference for Hitchcock, William Wyler and François Truffaut stupid, but to each his own :).

This was my 4th Michael Haneke movie and most likely my last, almost as bad as the previous one with Jean-Louis Trintignant killing his suffering from dementia wife.
I just don't like open ends. Yes, I admit it: I prefer mainstream movies!
Plus when I watch a French film, I expect the actresses to look elegant. The clothing that Binoche wore was looking very frumpy. I didn't care for the plot, the dialogues, the clothing at all.

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Jacques Rivette hates Haneke's movies, just try and belittle his intelligence and see how much credibility you maintain afterwards.

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