MovieChat Forums > She Hate Me (2004) Discussion > Racism in the movie...

Racism in the movie...

posted 18 years ago by f.m.c.duijn
62 replies | jump to latest

First of all, for the purpose of context, I'm a white European (Dutch) male, although I've lived in the U.S. for quite some time.

By reading through the forum (I've given up after the first 70) I've noticed that people get worked up about a lot of clichés or misinformation in the movie, such as the lesbian stuff, the health issues, etc.

However, I've not yet heard someone about the race issues involved in this film.

First of all, the balance is all skewed. I could understand that the main black character would choose all-black friends or something, but also the SEC agent / detective is black (and an unprofessional one at that, preferring "perp walk" lines and "shiiiiit" over things like Miranda rights), the 5 million dollar bail judge, the kind judge at the end, most of the lesbians are black, the ejactorium lady, and it goes on. White people are almost a minority themselves in this movie.

Also, the really bad guys in this movie are all white people.
- the CEO Powell
- the wussy and thoroughly abusive executive Margo (whose -- although the Germans are not our best friends during the current World Cup -- remarks about *beep* and nazis when referencing the German scientist, rank on the same scale as an American southerner calling a black man *beep* and are thoroughly offensive)
- all of the paper-shredders at the corporation
- arguably the German scientist himself (although he does some good things, he's also too big a coward to blow the whistle, and he kills at least one person in his suicide)
- the members of the committee in Washington who try to pin him for the crimes committed in his former company
- the robbers at Watergate

I didn't post this to mention I was pissed up about this (although I thoroughly am, movies like this and Drumline are redicilous and encourage racism in itself), what surprises me and what I'm curious about, is why nobody else mentions and/or notices this!

Granted, there are more movies like this, it's almost a genre in itself... but there are also lots of movies with terrible stereotypes about sexuality, yet that still manages to stir people up.

I get a kind of "let us black people stick it to the evil white man" vibe from this movie. Myself, I am (besides not being very PC) very anti-racism, yet this is not the way to do it. I wish the time would soon come, where race would not matter quite so much with characters from movies or the actors who portray them. Affermative action, for example, is racism too.

Why does noone else seem to care about this?

Maybe I misread the movie, maybe there's some context from US society that I missed, but I'm very curious, because I just don't get it.

[–] Sjekster 18 years ago

"Also, the really bad guys in this movie are all white people."

Your point being? That white people can't be bad guys? Bad guys must be black / hispanic? Like John Turturro said at the end of the movie: White-collar criminals are the worst kind. And they are mostly white, I can imagine.

I bet you never complained when seeing (tons of) movies where things are the opposite: white good, black baaaaad!

Also, you say you can understand if he chooses 'all-black' friends. How many friends have you seen in the movie, besides Q-Tip? That's just a dumb remark.

"White people are almost a minority themselves in this movie."

If you would take a look at the demographic of this little world you live in: White people ARE a minority ;)

"let us black people stick it to the evil white man"

Spike Lee doesn't overemphasize the race issues, if you ask me. Nor does Jack Armstrong use it to protect his case in court. If you ask me, the main point of this movie is not a racial thing, although some racial stereotypes can be found.

Regarding another poster:

"On Topic: I do find it disconcerting when these all black casts show up in movies, with nary another to be seen, unless the script of the movie specifcally shows why. I tend to feel the same with all white casts too. In a city like where this movie is based, the cast, if not his friends and friends of friends, would be much more eclectic. Sure, there are areas where this would be normal, but for the most part large american cities are incredibly diverse, and should be represtened as such."

Agreed. But do you think the cast wasn't diverse? Sure, his best friend was black, and Oh no! his family too!. The lesbiennes where black, hispanic, indian, and white. That's pretty diverse if you ask me ;). Sure, 'blacks' had the advantage, but then again, 18 doesn't divide by 4 ;)

Regards, a fellow Dutch guy, both black and white.

[–] eerrhg 18 years ago

Well duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spike Lee made THIS Film. Of corse ALL the bad guys are White.
What? What did you wanted them to be, Mexican? Arabian? Black?

Anyways, the Only Racism is that it was ONLY an African-American that got to "pregnate those women. For anything, It should have been more than One guy that *beep* the women!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Entropy382 17 years ago

Interesting how this is a topic about 'Racism in the movie,' yet the dialogue with the Italian girl's father wasn't mentioned.

Does the truth hurt, or is it being swept under the Rug?

Hmm...

[–] glocktwentyseven 17 years ago

You're right, Entropy.

Actually, I think it's that the truth hurts both ways, which is why both sides do their fair share of sweeping.

That's the main reason why racism exists at all.

Motherf uckers can't handle the truth.

[–] missinocent96 17 years ago

Well first of all it was 'Higher Learning'. If you want to hate on the movie at least get the name right. I don't understand all the complaining about Spike Lee...if he's making a movie about race then it won't be all cute and happy. It isn't a matter of Spike Lee hating white people, it's about Spike Lee making a statement about the way race functions in our society. The truth is that white people have been the perpetrators of so much social injustice in the name of race. He's not picking on white people.

[–] capn_miss_sparrow 16 years ago

One thing.. you can't say Spike Lee hates white people, that's just stupid
It's all part of blaxploitation.. and a way of steering away from a Sidney Poitier stereotype

[–] mesical 16 years ago

What the hell do you mean, Spike Lee doesn't hate white people? Its not "stupid" to say so... its "sick sad concrete fact".
Please hon, I've met the bastard. He brought 16 of his closest friends and family into a five-diamond resort restaurant where I previously worked, with no reservations, was astonishingly cruel and sarcastic to the (white) Maitre'd and hostess, and when I got to his table and politely asked if I could get them some drinks, totally starstruck and friendly and white as a mayo sandwich, he nastily responded that he would require a "different" waitress. When a black waitress reached his table, he was friendly and polite and tipped her quite a good amount. Whenever I walked by and offered refills on water or pop, he would glare and do all but bare his teeth at me. He's totally racist. And a rich snob, exactly the stereotype he likes to persecute in his movies.

Spike Lee is a notorious racist asshat, and I'm sorry to say that I didn't believe the rumours until I actually had the misfortune of meeting the fellow. And to boot, he's the rich twat who starts tantruming "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM!?" and flinging lawsuits about when things don't go his way. Don't criticize people about stating facts that you have OBVIOUSLY NO CLUE about the truth of.

And lets just remind everyone; racism is a two-edged sword.
My ancestors were Scot-Irish German... basically, indentured servants for hundreds of years more than African-Americans were, and just as poorly treated. I don't get any restitution from the "crackers" who used to own my ancestors, body and blood. I get no special preference in the job market since having a black or Asian employee is "culturally diverse", no collage incentives or grants for the colour of my skin. There is no "White History Month". Spike Lee is a hypocrite and a bigot and no one should pardon his rude actions and reverse-racial itinerary.

[–] Mehki_Girl 15 years ago

I'm black and I'm not getting any of that either. And don't know not one black person that is. If we were, we'd all be living in suburbia and have great jobs. Where can I get some? Blacks don't want anything or even an apology. What pisses them *off* is the continued insistence that racism doesn't exists - its so annoying - be refreshing - say racism does exist and many whites are eager participants. Why the heck should Spike like whites? I don't know his life experience, but some people aren't like me where I *choose* to deal with each person individually until *that* person shows me I should otherwise. But with advent of the anonymity of the internet, I've seen more vicious, nasty comments by whites about blacks then I'd ever hope to see. And don't anybody try to tell me different. I've worked and paid taxes since I was 15, both my brothers were military as was my father and grandfather. I own my own home as do my nieces, nephews, brother and sister. We pay income tax, state tax, federal tax, property tax and every other tax. *Everyone* in my family works. *Noone* sells drugs, uses drugs, or has ever been in jail or arrested. But I get hearing about affirmative action and this free ride I'm getting. I paid for my college degrees, with no student loans, no grants, and no free ride. Where is this free ride? Why was I paying for my sons to go to college? I want my money back.

[–] nikkiten1979 15 years ago

I completely agree with you... i wish Affirmative Action and free rides could have paid for my school!!! i'd take it, i want it!! I never even heard of free rides and none of my black friends got this affirmative action things who gets it??

i love me

[–] Rosey_gal 11 years ago

So true! It always fascinates and irritates me when others think that minorities (not just in terms of race, but overall immigrants) get more benefits (Yeah right, as if!)

[–] diddymuck 17 years ago

I have major question re: Spike Lee. Great filmmaker; however isn't he painting himself into a corner?

Let's suppose he reads and falls in love with a script regarding, say, samurai warriors. Would he be obligated to make the hero black even though the idea stretches credulity to the breaking point? Its enough that The Last Samurai was goofy enough to feature a white principle in spite of its unnecessary incongruenty, but would Spike Lee drop jaws if he put a black samurai in 1500's Japan? Would he drop jaws if he didn't? Would he be forced to never consider the project for fear his cred would be smashed from then on?

[–] missinocent96 17 years ago

why do you think he would put a black samurai in the movie? he's not a crazy 'black power' maniac and he has made movies that were not about race before.

[–] ell_wu 17 years ago

Meh, if we had the same situation in reverse, where a white guy acts as the hero while every single black person in the movie is EVIL EVIL EVIL or painted in some other unflattering light, most people wouldn't even blink. (Hell, it's pretty still that way with most Asian roles)

Spike Lee merely turns this very notion on it's head. (Though, to be fair, he also subverted the other Italian mobster stereotype where the mobster guy is actually a very reasonable person and very sympathetic to the hero)

To me, I think it was DELIBERATE that he made all the antagonists white. But at the same time, they play the traditional "acceptable" roles of society that we give a free pass to. This was a deliberate attempt to subvert the racial trends that most of hollywood is all but too happy to follow.

Take, for example, Training Day where Denzel won his oscar. Guess what, black people are shown as ghetto trash dwellers who thrive in gang cultures. This is not a new trend. This is something that if you really want, can almost trace right back there to blaxploitation films.

[–] Entropy382 17 years ago

ell wu said:

"Meh, if we had the same situation in reverse, where a white guy acts as the hero while every single black person in the movie is EVIL EVIL EVIL or painted in some other unflattering light, most people wouldn't even blink(Hell, it's pretty still that way with most Asian roles)."

...Then ell wu said:

"Take, for example, Training Day where Denzel won his oscar. Guess what, black people are shown as ghetto trash dwellers who thrive in gang cultures. This is not a new trend. This is something that if you really want, can almost trace right back there to blaxploitation films."

...Why contradict yourself in the same post? One minute, you're saying that there should be some movie where blacks are portrayed as EVIL EVIL EVIL, despite the (Incredibly obvious) fact that there have been SCORES of movies where black people are the (All-too-Stereotypic) 'Bad Guys.' The next minute, you're conceding that there have been scores of such movies.

...In other words, make up your mind on where you stand on this issue. This video should help you in your endeavors:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bLdDqhtkDNY

A: "Is that your Bathing Suit?"

W: "Is that your Overbite?"

[–] glocktwentyseven 16 years ago

I don't think that all the White people in this movie were "EVIL".

Margot wasn't evil.

The Italian mob boss wasn't evil.

Neither was his daughter.

[–] Entropy382 16 years ago

glocktwentyseven, the Italian Mob Boss was talking big *beep* about black people being animals, asking why was there more black men in Jail/Prison than College (Which is completely FALSE, by the way), and bragging about Coppola leaving other anti-black racist *beep* out of the first 'Godfather' movie. Not to mention that the Mobb Boss didn't even want the guy (I forget his name) to see his kid after it was born.

...And you're trying to say that wasn't "EVIL?"

...Please.

A: "Is that your Bathing Suit?"

W: "Is that your Overbite?"

[–] glocktwentyseven 16 years ago

No, he wasn't evil.

Did he try and kill Jack for impregnating his daughter?

No.

Did he flip out about his daughter giving him Black grandchildren?

No.

He's even holding them in his arms at the end of the movie.

The whole thing about the Godfather/Mario Puzo "Black people are animals thing", was that he was trying to gauge what kind of man had impregnated his daughter.

The entire conversation with Jack was a sparring match, to see if Jack held up to inspection, which Jack did.

He came across as intelligent, articulate, respectful and showed he had character . . . and that Jack had balls.

That was all that Bonaserra wanted to see.

That scene was more about Jack earning the man's respect, than it was about displaying how racist the Mob Boss/Father was.

And as far as what he was saying about Black people, it doesn't really make him evil, it just makes him prejudiced and misinformed.

Also, too, he had a valid point in criticizing this "Hip-Hop Gangster Culture" that we have all become identified with.

LOL, but Jack even had a good answer for that one.

I ask you to watch this scene again, and this time, assume that Bonaserra is actually a good guy "regardless of the stuff" that comes out of his mouth.

You'll see that he's pretty much just testing Jack . . . feeling him out . . . even trying to throw him for a loop to see how he would react.

It was like a sparring match.

[–] diddymuck 17 years ago

Not at all like that; SL has stated he makes films for black audiences; if anyone else likes it its ok.
Would he then be forced by his own personal tradition to put a black character in a 1500's set samurai period film? Would he be called a "sellout" if he didn't? Would he have to skip the project even though he likes it because he stuck in this self-imposed restriction?

[–] Mehki_Girl 15 years ago

I like Tom Cruise, but I found that so damned annoying. Feudal Japan needed his white a$$ to teach them how to be Samaurai? What a joke!

[–] miss_brightside77 17 years ago

get over it.
black people have had to deal with this in most movies and have to deal with those stereotypes following us around everyday. so quit whining.

affirmative action isn't racism. we're in the minority and the majority naturally has more chances than we do. affirmative action gives us a chance to advance because in the past we have largely been kept from doing so.

There are 2 types of girls in this world: Girls that run sh|_|t, and girls that take sh|_|t

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] navarrereed 16 years ago

It's no Sweet Sweetback's Badass Song, but it isn't a step in a better and more realistic direction, either.

[–] herowneulogy 16 years ago

It wasn't racist, it was realistic!

What world the world be if people weren't out making themselves better citizens?

[–] bluecat60 16 years ago

Is Spike Lee racist? Here's a quote. Guess who said it:

"I give interracial couples a look. Daggers. They get uncomfortable when they see me on the street."

A) David Duke
B) Thom Robb
C) George Wallace
D) Spike Lee

the correct answer is D!

[–] lukabert 16 years ago

White english male here.
Most of these posts start off with statements like "im not racist....but!"
but yeah, this is a spike lee movie.
Ofcourse its filled with african americans, thats spike lee's trade mark.
There is no race issue or debate in this movie, its just spike lee doing what he does best, dis-regarding white people.
South park is a perfect example, the black character called Token....huh hum "token black character" white film makers have been using all white casts for years, but no one raises a race issue over "classics"

[–] suz-mal 15 years ago

Who gives a *beep*
He's a black guy, s it's only natural his main characters would be black. I'm a white Australian. I've written a few screenplays and all of my "good guys" are white Aussies. It's not being rascist, it's writting what you know. I normally wouldn't make my main character a woman, not because I'm sexcist, but because I am a man and know more about white Aussie males than anything else.