MovieChat Forums > Synecdoche, New York (2009) Discussion > Face it, this is a movie that at best ne...

Face it, this is a movie that at best needed 30 minutes edited


and at worst pure *beep*

Look, I watched it twice to make sure, because I liked Adaptation and Being John Malkovich so much.


There's nothing here of substance. There's a lot of things that could mean something, or that could be given personal significance, but I see nothing coherent in the piece itself.

It's unfortunate because I really wanted it to be good, but it's just not there. Like I said, it would bhave benefited from better editing, both for length and coherence.

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And yeah, people are going to come in here and give me a lot of crap about how I need to go watch transformers.

Look, I'm a fan of cinema. My favorite director is Bergman.

The emperor has no clothes here.

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Any 30 minutes in particular or does that not matter ... just so long as it's definitely 30.

I generally gauge a film's quality by the the shiver in the small of my back, but this clock-based system you've come up with here might just save everyone a whole lot of effort.

Just imagine a magician like Charlie Kaufman sweating over the careful construction of his joyous little film, when in reality he should have just been cutting it by the yard. Stopwatch in hand.


... And you really couldn't find an existing thread in which to post this?

So you didn't much care for the film, so what?
However you were confident you knew how it should be fixed (i.e You > Kaufman, which is, of course, the real reason it needed a new thread).

If nothing else good comes out of this thread, please let me burst that particular bubble for you.
When your comment slides off the bottom of the page, that'll be pretty much about it I am afraid .... A hundred years from now, people will still be discovering and falling in love with this film, even so hindered and hobbled by dragging an apparently superfluous 30minutes around with it. It'll have people in tears and laughing out loud, your intenet messageboard comment, probably not so much.


Shhh! Listen carefully ... do you hear that distant, very quiet rumble, somewhere on a small Swedish island, Bergman's corpse is currently spinning at something close to full-speed, at the indignity, the humiliation, of even being so indirectly invoked to try and justify such a banal test-screen, focus group, movie studio exec response such as 'fix it' = 'make it shorter'.



Either way, you have convinced me, I definitely think you are onto something here. I just edited exactly 30 words from your original comment, and see how much better it looks now:

Look, I watched it twice because I liked so much.

There's a lot of things that could mean something, or that could be given personal significance, but I see piece itself.

It's because I really wanted it to be good, it's just there. Like I said, it would have editing, length and coherence.


Yeah, I'll agree with that.

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Bergman's corpse is currently spinning at something close to full-speed, at the indignity, the humiliation, of even being so indirectly invoked to try and justify such a banal test-screen, focus group, movie studio exec response such as 'fix it' = 'make it shorter'.
Actually it's a reasonable comparison to make. Bergman's films were mostly short and tightly edited. His mini-series were longer, but most of the classic Bergman catalogue is around 90 minutes.

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... self-indulgent, particularly Caden's mulling over of different names for his 'play'.

What? They were jokes. The film is packed front to back with jokes. It's a comedy. A superb, laugh-out-loud comedy. If you somehow or another ended-up so far out of sync with the mood and tone of the piece that you missed this, then the rest of your criticism is gonna look real shaky here-on-out I'm afraid.

Actually it's a reasonable comparison to make. Bergman's films ...

No it's not. That wasn't even the nature of the comparison, it was dragging another filmmaker's name in to validate the frankly bizarre notion that films you don't like get made much better by being hacked and slashed; brutally gouging huge chunks out of a filmmaker's work to satisify nothing more than that tedious, banal and artificial tyranny of man-made clock-time.

A cockeyed, inside-out version of that Woody Allen gag, 'the food was terrible, and such small portions' ...

The film is obviously loved by some people, loved dearly, so whatever problem some critics or commenters may have with it, obviously runtime is nothing to do with it. The film is the same length for all of us.

It is dazzling, joyous and perfect. A rare spinning shimmering dream of a film. Pure uncompromised cinema.
There is not a single frame that should be removed from this picture, if anyone even tries, I promise right here, I'll break their legs.

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I don't think Kaufman necessarily should have edited Synecdoche. I think he should have found a more efficient way to say the same things. It's a writing problem not an editing problem.

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The suggestions for a brutal clock-watching edit-suite hatchet-job were bad enough, but now IMDB commenters are instructing Charlie Kaufman on how to properly write a screenplay ... hang onto your hats people, because we are now well and truly through the looking glass on this one!

What is worse - the arrogance or the selfishness?

The arrogance, that if someone happens to encounter a film they don't really like, then the film must clearly be defective. I guess the thought process is, *I* didn't much care for it, hence it must be broken, send it back to be repaired.

Or is it the selfishness; me, me, me ... to snatch away and mutilate something, irrespective that many others clearly love it, they don't count, they all disappear when I close my eyes, the prime concern must only ever be my narrow satisfactions.

Either way, whatever it is, it's an utterly unappealing line of argument, and should not be encouraged.


Look.

It's fine to not like everything, in fact that's actually kinda the whole point: y'know, the diversity.
The trick is to appreciate the existence of that spectrum, to strive to be not quite so totalitarian in matters of simple taste.

"Yeah, but I'm entitled to my opinion", who said you weren't, but having an opinion is not the same thing as saying all opinions deserve to be loudly broadcast.

These boards are littered to overflowing with empty threads shouting about how much they hated a boring/pretentious/worthless film ... as if there is any utlity or use that can be made of such facile pointless commentary for commentary sake.

Most every film will eventually find someone out there to love it ... all films deserve that chance to find their own distinct and unique audience, and those audiences deserve sufficient respect to be allowed the opportunity to discover, and connect with, and fall in love with all sorts of different-shaped films.

On what grounds should I, or anyone else who sat spellbound by this film, have been deprived of that experience, in order to vaguely satisfy those others that insist it should be chopped to a multiplex friendlier runtime, or had the wings torn off it's dizzying, mesmerizing narrative structure, in order to better fit some tired-out three act convention.


What is genuinely eye-opening about the reviews, the comments, the critics; that they will spend so much time loudly and over-earnestly bemoaning the inadequate state of contemporary cinema, the poverty of ideas, and paucity of imagination, yet when presented with "the type of film" that they have been saying they want more of, how furiously they fall-over themselves to guilelessly tear it apart for it's crime of having an aspiration to be a slightly different piece of work.


The great films, the great art, only ever reflect and refract what you put into them, they are a framework, a scaffold for you to hang your own ideas and impressions, they are a catalyst for those emotional and intellectual reactions, they are not the fuel.
... If you didn't make that connection, if the film was tuned to a different wavelength, then you may very well have got nothing in return ... it happens, it's the way it goes some time, it's not a problem ... but it is a huge problem, a huge mistake, to go from that 'missed response' to claiming that the film is faulty.

The film worked - I saw it spin it's delicate magic in front of my own eyes, I have seen other people talk of their love for it, it clearly does have an inherent capacity to work. If you or others didn't find it thus, that's OK ... but we'd really, really, be grateful if you left the film we adore alone, not smear it, abuse it, or to not insist on having it butchered and destroyed in order to "fix it".

Thankyou.

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It's a beautiful film. Not a single minute is needs to be cut. It's one of a small list of films that i have seen in the last 10 years, that i haven't checked the time.
Inception. Entertaining, smart, though a bit weak, i checked for the time twice. That indicates how i started to grow weary of the film. Maybe it was the romance that bored me?

As for SNY, i adored every minute of it. I laughed at what i thought was funny and i probably cried too much for a young male. Spectacular film!

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I'm with you. This was a smart movie and criminally overlooked. Part of what I loved about it was that Kaufman didn't feel the need to explain every single detail. He just left them all there for the audience to take and leave on their own.

Honestly, I probably missed a lot on first viewing, and I don't really care. I'll see it again.

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Green poop, bloody pee, and horrific gum surgery = not necessary

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someone really has a stick up their ass.

Did you notice that you didn't actually address my comments about the editing and pacing?

I guess snappy comments are more your style.



Fix it doesn't = make it shorter, but neither does a picture being 2 hours long mean that it didn't need cutting.

Deal with it.

And don't throw a little ###### fit next time, it's not becoming

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... and there it is, as predictable as it is tiresome.
The bruised-ego comeback in the ego-thread that misfired. Trampled underfoot, the film is now no longer even the issue, it's the squabble in front of the imaginary audience. An internet novelty of course, haven't not never seen that tiredly played out before.

Lemme get this straight ... it's acceptable in your mind to come out in public, sober and in broad daylight, and describe someone's creation as *beep*, but if anyone has the effrontery to point-out how skull-crushingly banal and trite is your "suggestion" and "remedy", the toys immediately find themselves launched from the pram.

Take a moment.
What exactly was your intention going into this, what was the best that could have occurred? How's it working out so far? Apart from a general lack of manners and good grace, to what end was this thread launched? How was this flaccid internet foot-stomp designed to benefit anyone else?


I was neither negligent nor remiss.
There was nothing to address in your comments, I think you'll find that was precisely my point, you regurgitate and cling desperately to words like 'coherence', as if that in and of itself means anything here. It's all just so much empty jargon. No substance, no spirit, no heart. A cardboard cutout of an argument.

A lack of respect for the work of others, a fragile temprament when queried, a petulant and selfish desire to mutilate the art that many others may happily enjoy and very much love, for what end, what's the goal? Just to stack more scorn and impotent negativity on the pile?


All very unappealling stuff, no thankyou sir. It does me no good. I am very much happier to continue to stick with a guy like Charlie Kaufman, he offers something beautiful, something joyous, an opportunity to experience something touching, and humane.
You and your butcher's scissors offer me none of this.

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There is absolutely no substance in this post. Just a bunch of grandiloquent banality.

Kentoc'h mervel eget bezañ saotret

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I just want to say that this is one of the most ridiculously garbage responses I've ever seen on the internet.

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Actually, I think the fact that there's a lot of seemingly unneeded material helps the film. One of the themes this film explores is artistic excess and what results when artists don't draw a line with their work, and I think that this film explores this theme in a rather unique way that I personally found refreshing and somewhat brave. I think Kaufman should be applauded.

http://cuddercityfilmchronicles.blogspot.com/

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You're saying it was ironic self-indulgence. Interesting theory. Personally I felt it belaboured the point, though, and wound up just being self-conscious as well as self-indulgent, particularly Caden's mulling over of different names for his 'play'.

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@tonymurphylee

Yes, that was one thing I went into my second watching looking for, and while I appreciated it, I still feel that my original comments stand - that goal could have been accomplished without the actual pacing and coherence suffering.

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Mate, you're spot on.

"Martha is 108... years old. She weighs somewhat more than that". - George

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You hit the nail on the head.

I think Charlie Kaufman is the kind of genius who lacks the ability to self-edit. Most the movies that he wrote are actually heavily edited from his original script. Both Being John Malkovich and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind have totally different endings, for example, and pretty much the entire second half of BJM completely deviates from his original script. Much of the visual brilliance of his movies are also the product of directors with distinctive creative vision, like Michel Gondry and Spike Jonze.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Charlie Kaufman's gift is in coming out with brilliant, mind-bending concepts. It's a fantastic talent, and his plot ideas are breathtakingly original. Unfortunately, he also really needs visionary filmmakers to edit them down, distill them into their essence, make them accessible, and help him bring them to life. Synecdoche is an example of his unedited ideas pushed to the screen.

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Exactly. Kaufman certain tackles large issues (cartesian theaters and meta-art aren't typical hollywood), but talented directors can make them accessible, enjoyable, and thematically focused. This movie tried to address way to much, and only scratched the surface.

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At best you're a Donkey.

Bray, Donkey, bray

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I totally agree. I love this movie so much, every character, every line, Philip Seymour Hoffman's genius performance. Everything about this film is outstanding except for the part that it doesn't work at all and is kind of awful.

I think a lot of it had to do with that fact that there were no "rules" to Synecdoche. In Being John Malcovich, sure, there was a portal to some dude's brain but, after 15 minutes, you're shat back out to reality. In Eternal Sunshine, you got to be a kid again and hang out in this magical dream world but, eventually to you had wake up.

Synechdoche was just, "everything is crazy, nothing matters, it's all so crazy". Two and half hours deep into it and he's still introducing new cooky characters, being "whoah wacky". "You thought this world would have regular physics like gravity? WRONG AGAIN, IDIOTS!"

The monologues about death are so amazing and Phillip Seymour Hoffman is just so goddamn real as this guy, no matter how absurd the plot gets, he remains deadpan, ("Can you ever forgive me for abandoning you to have anal sex with my homosexual lover Eric?" lol, not a trace of irony on his face).

And I don't think Kaufman deserved to be skewered by the critics for this movie, boo'ed out of Canne's like he did, sent into a depression and quiting movies or whatever.

But like, 3 Hours man? I don't have ANY USE FOR IT! I DON'T HAVE ANY BLOODY USE FOR IT!

You should've hit up Donald for a re-write, Charlie, you know how amazing he is amazing at structure.

A dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

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And I don't think Kaufman deserved to be skewered by the critics for this movie, boo'ed out of Canne's like he did, sent into a depression and quiting movies or whatever.

What the hell?! Are you serious? I JUST watched this film for the first time, after so long (and I'm a big Kaufman fan), and I am still thinking about it.

One part of me trusts Kaufman to where he might want to take me as a viewer and another part of me is always on high alert so I don't let anything pass my BS radar... and then I have this tremendous respect and desire for every filmmaker to experiment like he has done here.

It's truly interesting to see how viewers can easily abandon someone that has an amazing track record of knowing what he is doing. Maybe with this film he still knows what he is doing and is trusting us to figure what that is for ourselves? With his previous work it's really not that hard. With this film he took a leap of faith.

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I agree

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