MovieChat Forums > Stage Beauty (2004) Discussion > The breast is NOT the disturbing part!

The breast is NOT the disturbing part!


Am I the only one who gets annoyed by movies where true homosexuality is described as a problem that can only be solved by "converting" to heterosexuality towards the end? As soon as homosexuality is expressed in a major film, one can be sure that it is only temporary...

I can accept that K's boyfriend really isn't into gay men, but rather transvestites. But K is definitely gay, no doubt about it. The belief that every gay man can be "straightened out" by just sharing a bed with a woman, must be the reason that lots of states in the USA voted clearly against every means for gay people to show their love.

Everyone is just waiting for the "happy end" they've seen so many times in the movies!

*sigh*

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Are you a gay man and mad cause they turned a gay man into a heterosexual man? Just seems the one that is disturbed is you. Almost everyone who responded agrees that K was in a confusing state of mind. He has to find who he really is and some gay/heterosexual men do that too. It's ok to feel confused about your sexuality. Some people are just like that.

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Interesting, revisiting this thread after 10 years. I don't remember a thing about the movie, but appreciate the analysis that has come forth in the thread. To answer your question, yes, I am a "gay man" and as such I have a tendency to react to cultural depictions of gayness as something superficial and changeable.

I think that most of the commenters in this thread express a deeper understanding of the movie than I did, but I'm not sure they express a deeper understanding of homosexuality. I mean, yes there is a continuum of homo-/heterosexuality, but in all ages you have had to make the binary decision: Am I conforming to social norms, or do I have to oppose them?

Put another way: If you feel 25% gay, can you come quarter-way out of the closet?

Again, not remembering much about the movie itself, reading the comments suggests that the main character has been trying to live a life opposing the norms, withstanding a lot of hardship as a result. At the end, he conforms to the expectations of heterosexuality, and we have a "happy end". Is this correct? If so, is it OK?

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What you lack is the understanding that back then, people would send orphans to places where from a small age they were taught nothing but the stage. since back then woman weren't in the opera or theater men had to assume either the male or female role.

Males that were picked to play women were (once again from a small age) taught nothing but to be a woman, to the point most in their minds thought thats who they were. and naturally became homosexuals because in their mind they were women who like women wanted to be with men. i think most don't even get a chance to figure out if they really are homosexual or not.

As you can see in this film, Ned doesn't know how to be a man because he has played a woman all his life.

You should check out another great film that deals with this topic: Farewell My Concubine

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This thread is long enough, but to chime in briefly:

Ned is clearly bisexual; he tells Mariah that he has had sex with women, and he is clearly attracted to her in the first scenes of the film. The "scandal" that neither he nor the Duke want getting out is that he has male lovers, and certainly it seems that his most passionate sexual relationship is with the Duke...but in the sensual scenes (they never actually have sex) between he and Mariah he is clearly as attracted to her as she is to him. I believe that a careful viewing of the first scene in the dressing room makes it clear that this attraction existed from the get-go. The initial poster may be making a valid point about some movies (Chasing Amy comes to mind) but picked the wrong movie to make that point. What's charming about Ned's character is that he really isn't all that "confused" about his sexual identity at all...or rather, the resolution of his confusion isn't the point of the movie. He is an actor, and his character's journey is towards being a better one. He never doubts that he is a man, and is pretty clear and forthright in his attractions to each of his sexual interests in the film.

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[deleted]

Mumiemonstret:

First of all, Ned was never converted into a heterosexual. According to history, he was bisexual. In the movie, Ned loves men because he couldn't seperate fictional character(which has always been a woman)on stage with reality. In his mind, he is a woman when he is with the Duke. When Mrs. Hugh cares for him the way that the Duke never did, Ned becomes confused of his sexuality. He doesn't know who he is, and by the end of the film, when Maria ask him: "so, who are you now?", for once in his life he doesn't need to ACT. He becomes true to himself and tells her that he DOESN'T KNOW, and he accepted the person that he is/comfortable of being himself(not being Desdemona). And if you paid attention to BED part, you will realize that Ned has slept with other women(and i mean he had sex with them)BEFORE he ever shares a bed with Maria. So you see, he is not a typical gay guy. At the beginning of the movie, he is Desdemona. At the end, he is himself.

Due to the fact that Ned Kynaston was a real person and he was Bisexual, the film has him end up with Maria because in reality, he got married and had kids. But all of that DOES NOT means that he's been CONVERTED into a heterosexual, he's still bi-sexual at the end.

BTW: I don't think this movie has anything to do with States in US voting against homosexual marriages. I personally supports homosexual marriages. Yet, alot of Americans are against homosexual because of their religion, not because of some movie. In fact what's wrong with telling a part of theater history. We can't change the facts that Ned ended up marrying a woman and had kids. Suppose we should ignore and alternate history and have Ned Kynaston end up with the Duke at the end to show the audience what really DIDN'T happen....???

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To the OP: You are not the only one disturbed by the need to turn homosexuality into heterosexuality. I really enjoyed this movie and I wanted to like the two leads ending up together at the end of the film, but it just didn't sit well with me. It seemed a bit forced and I had a hard time buying K trying to kill her in one scene, and then in the next falling in love with her. It was disturbing at best.

Recently I was able to see this on the stage, and I realized how different it is than the movie. A lot of changes were made. In the play, K is definitely a gay man, no doubt about it. He is struggling with his identity, but not his sexuality. I have to say that I enjoyed the play more. It is fun, smart, and sexy.

I think you are right. I think the changes were made because they wanted to make the film more palatable to heterosexual audiences. I enjoyed both the play and the movie, but the play is better.

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If you think making the leads end up together did anything to make the movie more "palatable" to a closed minded, straight audience, you obviously haven't talked about the movie with anyone in that audience. I doubt that anyone who cares whether the character is gay or bisexual would get through the whole movie just to be reassured at the end.

I never understood why sexuality has to be a fixed and binary thing. Sometimes, who you love is what matters and gender, just like race, is not your primal focus. It's true with people who think of themselves as straight until they find love in their own gender, just as it's true for people who think of themselves as gay and fall for someone they didn't expect.

And if that's too hard to believe for you, consider then that he tells her he never "slept with a woman" before and when she asks, dubious "never?", he repeats "never slept" with an emphasize on the "slept". He's struggling with his identity, but not his sexuality, like you said, so how hard is it to believe he's bisexual?

The movie is not about someone getting "cured" of his homosexuality, it's about gender identity as opposed to society's concept of gender. And it's about two characters who find each other, and themselves through one another.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I wholeheartedly agree Ithilfaen!

Your first statement enticed me to nod with similar thought and then I read on and kept nodding up till the end.

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I was talking about the play in comparison to the movie. I was talking about the changes that were made to the play in order to create the screenplay that ended up being used. I didn't say anything about anyone being cured of homosexuality and I didn't say anything about straight audiences having closed minds either. I am a member of that audience that likes to see the two leads end up together, I just don't think it has to happen all the time. I was trying to say that in the play K was definitely gay and I enjoyed that, and the play more.

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i've just watched this movie for the first time and listened to the commentary track by the director, who states that ned is definitely bisexual. during the final scene, he says:

"some people think that this is suggesting that he's resolved his sexual identity. for me it's simply saying: here is someone he's learnt to admire, certainly finds attractive, but as important, he recognizes that his emotions can engage with someone who is not himself. [throughout the commentary the director refers to ned as extremely narcissistic.] it seems to me, the reactions to this scene are quite subjective. i regard it as an open-ended question when she says, 'who are you now?' and he says, 'i don't know.' i think he's telling the truth, that he doesn't know, and he doesn't know where his sexual identity, where his professional identity, is. what he does know is that he admires, and, if you like, adores this other person, this significant other person. so, i'm disappointed if people think that it's closing the brackets on the relationship and suggesting that all his ambiguities are resolved. for me, it ends on a note of - i hope - open heartedness, open handedness, and doubt but optimism."

he also said a bit earlier that the intention was to make the film's audience believe that ned may be actually attempting to kill maria, but that it was never the case; he was simply perfecting his acting of the death scene.

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