MovieChat Forums > Kinsey (2005) Discussion > why i hate this movie

why i hate this movie


Lets accept for a second that we actually are just like animals sexually. Why do we have a higher intelligence then all of these animals? Do you think a dog would have the determination and intellect to collect a study like Kinsey's? We hold ourselves to a higher standard. This film had brilliant performances by Neeson, Linney, and Sarsgaard, but besides that there is nothing but a confused man. He was obviously sexually corrupted by the extremist teachings of his youth and mentally abused by his father. I understand in today's society we are told to become more and more open to new sexual endeavors but some of what he dealt with is just wrong. There is a reason animals do things that we don't. Just because something feels good in the moment doesn't mean it is good. The film even shows that we are not meant for that as humans when Sarsgaard's wife wants to leave him. I'm sure many on this board will disagree, but maybe a few will in fact agree with me. It's just my opinion and I'm looking forward to hearing some responses. Keep in mind I'm only seventeen.

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I like how you claim someone is "obviously sexually corrupted" by reviewing elements of their childhood.

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Dreamman2399, you are very thoughtful and well-spoken for 17 (maybe 18 by now?) and I respect your right to your opinions, but it is said that all opinions are wrong. Just because something is "wrong" for you doesn't mean that it is "wrong" for someone else. We all have had different lives, which makes it necessary for some of us to practice certain activities to help us overcome the deficiencies that are the result of the rules/boundaries/prohibitions (fears) put upon us by others (and sometimes ourselves), activities that would be undesirable or unnecessary for others.

It is wrong to judge somebody before having walked in their shoes. A dog would not conduct a study like Kinsey's because a dog would not need to, since a dog does not live a life full of stupid, unnatural shame. Kinsey needed to and saw that billions of other people with an intelligence higher than a dog's (and therefore more complex and troubled) also needed him to. Though much of his methods and conclusions were flawed, ultimately it was still an enormously good thing he did because he dismantled a lot of confusion, stigma and outright lies. He popped quite a cherry. Others have picked up where Kinsey left off and clarified matters, and that is also good.


You are "right" when you say that "just because something feels good in the moment doesn't mean it is good." It is sad how many "respectable doctors of the human mind" will say that "if it feels good, it is good" because the statement in and of itself is too narrow and simplistic, too selfish. There is a flip-side: A murderer, rapist or liar feels strangely "good" in the moment in which they victimize somebody, but it is clearly wrong because the victim is unwilling and, obviously, harmed by what makes the villain feel "good." But it would be "wrong" to imply that your rule should apply to "all things that somebody somewhere" disapproves of, for instance a May-December romance, a relationship between people of different skin colors, a relationship between people of the same gender, or just a sexual position disallowed by your religion. If all participants are willing (and hopefully enthusiastic), well... If there is no victim, there is no crime.

You said: "The film even shows that we are not meant for that as humans when Sarsgaard's wife wants to leave him." Just because she wants to leave him doesn't necessarily mean that she is in the right. Perhaps she feels the way she does because she fears living a life that does not conform to the standards of society that have been imposed upon her. Perhaps she is simply insecure and selfish and doesn't want to share him. Perhaps she could be more open-minded and just let him be who he wants to be. If you TRULY love someone, set them free. And that includes yourself. Some people choose to be hurt by the actions of others, then try to make them responsible for it. Sarsgaard's wife knew who he was and what he did before she married him. She likely took no responsibility for her insecurities.

My favorite scene in the movie, quoting Neeson as Kinsey:

"Based on the first book of Genesis, and according to public opinion, there`s only one correct sexual equation: man plus woman equals baby. Everything else is vice... Everyone is different. The problem is, most people want to be the same. They find it easier to simply ignore this fundamental aspect of the human condition. They are so eager to be part of the group, they`ll betray their own nature to get there. lf something pleasurable and strongly desired is prohibited, it becomes an obsession. Think about this."

I think that sums up the human race well, and a person's sexuality is integrated with every single aspect of their mind, body and soul. If I had written the movie, I would have added into that scene that "you hate what you fear and you fear what you lack because you are uncertain of how acquiring it will change you."

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In my opinion, we are ALL like animals, literally 'the same'.

We interact with each other, we do it by speech and language, other animals do it in their own different ways, but you cannot deny the fact that as we are in groups, they are.

We make houses to live in, through intelligence? Architecture-wise, yes, but the concept of the house shows no intelligence at all. Birds make nests.

Smarter people and 'better' people earn higher positions in life, we call them CEOs, Rich, or Bosses.... The animals have Leaders.

We dream. Dogs Dream.

I believe the only difference is that we enjoy sex, and most other animals if i am not mistaken don't find actual pleasure in it.

I think this is done through nature to make sure we will keep on going as species. Since yes, we are intelligent, that fact could cause us to "skip" the reproducing procedure to focus on other things. Nature doesn't want that though, so it made sure that we are born with the need of sex.

A theory that I conceived... A minute ago :P

But hey, it ain't that bad.

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I totally agree with you when you say we are nothing more than a animal among others, in my point of view it is absolutely true. We ARE literally the same.
I don't even think we are actually smarter than them, a big part of that idea comes from ignorance, from the fact that we don't know what's actually going on in a animal's brain, what he's thinking <yes they think!>. Therefore we assume they are "stupid", therefore disposable and expandable. The truth is when you watch animal documentaries and see all the incredible things they are capable to do, it becomes a necessity to call that belief into question. This belief also owes a lot to human arrogance and propensity to affirm they are above anything around them <and to religion as well!>. Fortunately, thanx to science, research and studies, this conviction is proven more and more wrong from year to year...

On the other hand where i have to disagree with you is when you say animals don't feel pleasure by mating, which is clearly untrue. I don't know about insects and maybe reptiles, but i'm pretty sure any mammals feel a great deal of pleasure while doing it, you just have to watch 2 dogs copulating to see that they like it <at least the male lol!>!
Furthermore, pleasure is the best solution nature has found to keep us breading and never getting tiered of it.

Yeah so globally i agree with you...


Peace

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"

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Most animals that practice internal fertilization and even insects have the same pleasure-inducing organs that humans have. Even female reptiles have clitorises; so yes, animals definitely can feel pleasure during mating.


But people, I hate to say this: the most judgemental people on this earth are the ones who believe in "live and let live" and "if it makes you happy, you should be allowed to do it without judgement". I'm in a position where I talk to a lot of people face to face about many different topics and I have always found this to be so. Case in point: the number of posters here who got offended by the first post and cried "don't judge me!!!" like a bunch of Jerry Springer guests. In other words: "you are allowed to believe whatever you want to believe as long as it agrees with MY beliefs". Not everyone was this way and for those that weren't, I shake your hand. But those that were need to take a good look at themselves and deal with their own close-mindedness before judging someone else's morals.

No TV and no beer make Homer something--something!!
Go Crazy?
Don't mind if I do!!!

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Wooooow! Really interesting, didn't know that fact, that "Even female reptiles have clitorises" and that "Most animals that practice internal fertilization have the same pleasure-inducing organs that humans have".
Yet are u sure about insects though? Because i have a hard time to believe that even a fly has a clitoris or a glans or any kind of sexual pleasure when doing it...
Furthermore, there's almost an uniform agreement in the scientific community to say that insects don't feel pain in all likelihood due to their own specificity: no nocireceptors, limited central nervous system, no adaptive behavior/response to injuries etc.

Thus, i really don't think they can feel pleasure since pain is unknown....

Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://www.ikhebeenvraag.be/mediastorage/FSDocument/41/Eisemann-164.pdf


"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"

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"husbands encourage their wives to engage in sex with other Men for additional sexual satisfaction"

oh did i mention that the Kinsey encourage his wife to do it with a man who D.Kinsey had a homosexual relation with him

and finally he blame society and morals that they are not open to this things

the above point was one of many parts that explain why i disagree with Kinsey view to us as an animals
the most Quote i n film that i agree with is , when his wife told him after he was in gay sex relation is
" You use science as an excuse to do whatever You want to do "
what a shame
===================================
Egyptian Director , Writer , Editor and Digital Colorist

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Ok, but why do you hate sex?

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[deleted]

Agreed

Yea, Tho I Walk Thru The Valley Of The Shadow Of Political Correctness...🇺🇸

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