NOT A SIN?! - El crimen del padre Amaro (2002) Discussion

[–] thats_lovely_dahling 19 years ago

I personally don't think what he did was wrong, but I can understand why it would bring on such a negative reaction...after all, aren't Catholic priests supposed to take an oath of celibacy?

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[–] oddharmonic 19 years ago

what was so sinful of what he did? nothing! i'm confused...he did nothing wrong, he could have gone out with her if he wanted. he could have even married her and still be a priest. so i don't know what the big deal is here.

Priests in the Catholic church take a vow of chastity as part of the ordination service. Dating, marriage and sex are all violations of that vow.

By violating his vow of chastity, Padre Amaro committed a grievous sin and sacrilege. It's like a police officer violating laws they swore to uphold -- it may not necessarily be wrong, but it it goes against an oath they took.

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[–] firecracker57 19 years ago

Oddharmonic is right; dating, marriage, and especially sex are given up in order to become a Catholic priest. Also, it isn't explicitly said in the movie, but Amelia is supposed to be 16. I know, she looks older and she teaches relious classes, but she is supposed to be quite young. In the book she is 15, so that adds to Padre Amaro's sin, besides guilting her into an abortion which causes her death.

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[–] Synthmode101 19 years ago

Yeah, and on top of that, Padre Amaro tells Amelia that he can't leave the priesthood because he'd already studied and invested too much into being a priest. He knew what he was doing and maybe he did love her. But,if he TRULY loved her, he would've left everything behind to be w/ her....but he was too ambitious. He did what he did because he thought he could get away with it, like father Benito's affair w/ Amelia's mother.

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[–] toxicc_queen 18 years ago

Synthmode101, I havent seen this movie, but sayin that if he truly loved her he would stop being a priest is not true. Catholics are meant to love God above all things. When one becomes a priest, they make a promise to God. That's all i have to say!

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[–] sophiemops 12 years ago

I know that this is a really old post, but I have to say that yes, priests are meant to love God above all things. As a priest, the vow of chastity is proof of that devotion to God alone. Amaro did not love God above all, or he wouldn't have so easily had an affair with Amelita. He barely seemed to give it any thought, and managed to justify it quite easily.

Nor did he love Amelita. If he did, he wouldn't have put her in a position where she could get pregnant and he wouldn't take responsibility. He took advantage of the fact that a young woman was infatuated with him, but I really don't believe he loved her.

Amaro love himself above all others. It's as simple as that. He wanted to experience worldly pleasures, but he also had a fierce ambition to go far in The Church, perhaps all the way to the Vatican.

He was selfish and self-righteouos at the same time. However, he had such an innocent face and kindly demeanor that almost no one suspected any ill-doings on his part.

Not only that, but in my opinion, he committed involuntary manslaughter against Amelita, and then put the blame on an innocent person, while making himself out to be a hero, trying to save her.

He was by far the most corrupt person in the movie, and what was truly scary is that I don't believe he felt he had done wrong.

I thought that it was a brilliant portrayal.
____________________________________________
What's the rumpus?

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[–] somenthing1002002 19 years ago

Okay,Gael did sin,it does not matter if you are in love or the age you have,catholic priests cannot I repeat cannot have sexual relationships,plus in the catholic faith you need to get married before having sex,fornication is a sin if you're not married.
God I'm I the only one here who actually knows this stuff,nia_Swim if you're catholic than you really don't know much about your faith(religion).

PS:For all of you who have other religious beliefs,I know wahat you're thinking:Damn those catholics are really strict.Yes we are.

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[–] Marie_Chantal 19 years ago

Oh please not all priest keep their vows. There is a dry cleaners in my mom's city back in Mexico that is run by an ex priest that ran away with some girl. And one of my aunts told me that some years ago a convent was being repaired and that some workers made a hole in a wall and they found a secret room full of the remains of babies!

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[–] Hanna7 19 years ago

you're so right, viggofanatic!!! when my mom lived in a small town, there was this something. a priest and a married woman fell in luv. she left her husband and kids, he left the priesthood, and they ran away together! some priest (not to say that all are the same). and yes, viggofanatic, i've heard and visited a (the same one you said?) convent in Mexico in which they found a secret room full of baby remains! the nuns were impregnated and then committed abortion!
mon dieu! my goodness! no lo puedo creer! such outrage.

i'm not catholic and i disagree with priests not being able to marry(or expected not to do so)....they're men after all, 2, you know!

gael is no mesmerizing

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[–] ilikeshinythings 19 years ago

Yeah, well, the dry cleaners' guy isn't a priest anymore, is he.
Padre Amaro was so dedicated to his religion and occupation that he held it more important than his love for Amelia. Yes, he did mess around with her, but when she got pregnant, the only option for him was abortion, not running away to start a big happy family.

I don't know about Amelia's possible age of 16 being a serious factor in the crime, ater all, she was nearly getting married to whats-his-name, her boyfriend in the beginning of the film. But I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant either, just that the fil itself doesn't really make a big deal out of it, as it isn't even mentioned.

In the Catholic religion, you cannot be a priest and a married man.
Even with people occasionally breaking this rule, it doesn't make it any better.
If you have sex, your preaching ends there.

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[–] elefantevioleta 19 years ago

The dry cleaners' guy may not be a priest, but my great grandfather was a priest until he's death. It's exactly because the catholic church was so obsessive about sin and fornication, but unable to keep their own vows that the book and therefore the film exists! So we can't justify Amaro's sin with that, can we? He is supposed to the example of how almost all priests are.
And Amelia’s age was really important in the book. In the film we don’t see it so much because se looks older than she should. Her age is important because it means that Amaro was not just having sex with some girl, he was corrupting a young, innocent virgin girl.

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[–] ilahilda 12 years ago

Why was the young priest burning his hand on th stove? I only saw snippets on YouTube. I have been watching The Thornbirds also.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] life_is_like_water 19 years ago

We're thinking "Damn, those Catholics have a hard time communicating on message boards."

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[–] legolas05 18 years ago

Brilliant. HAHAHAHA

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[–] heathermulliner 19 years ago

I don't think Amaro's relationship with Amelita was a sin. His actions once she beame pregnant were definately a sin. He guilted her into getting an abortion that she didn't want to get, to protect his own ambitions. He was self centered and hypocritical and it ended up costing Amelita her life. The fact that he was such a coward to let her ex-boyfriend take the blame makes him all the more deplorable.

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[–] jemapu 18 years ago

Actually, according to the Catholic Church, it was. Besides the fact that is a sin to have sex with anyone you are not married to, Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy. They are married to God. Thus, if they have sex with anyone, it is a sin.

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[–] fanaticita 18 years ago

But what he did to Amalita was a crime on top of everything. That's why it's called the Crime of Padre Amaro.

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[–] jemapu 18 years ago

Well, yes, statutory rape is also a crime.

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[–] reality_bites77 18 years ago

Yes, Amaro's actions after Amelia got pregnant were sinful (morally and religiously...according to the Catholic church) and deplorable, but what he did before she was pregnant(having premarital sex, having sex period since he took the oath of celibacy) were sins according the Catholic church. You may not PERSONALLY consider them sins, and that's fine, but he was a Catholic priest, so he sinned according to his faith.

As for Amelia's age, the movie may not have made an issue out of her being underage, because maybe her character in the movie wasn't supposed to be underage. Books and movies are often very different; facts and events and characters change. Maybe the filmmakers didn't want the age to be an issue or for her age to be part of the crime for the movie (maybe so it would create more sympathy and understanding for Amaro). If they did, I'm sure they would have brough up the age, because as far as I can tell, there's no real indication she was under 18. We didn't see her sitting in high school classrooms, she was teaching, working, and it's not unusual for families to live together into adulthood in Mexico.

And whoever mentioned their grandfather and other priests who didn't abide by their oath, they may have still been preaching, but it doesn't make what they did ok in the eyes of their church. They apparently just weren't loyal to their faith in all regards. Even if a lot of them can't remain celibate, it's not ok. The whole point of the celibacy thing (I think!) is to sacrifice for God. It's not supposed to be fun or easy.

I'm not saying I think what they did was necessarily wrong. I'm not Catholic and I don't really get why Catholic priests have to be celibate, and frankly I disagree with a lot of the stuff from the Catholic church. These are just my opinions regarding the movie.

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[–] vfrance-1 17 years ago

I agree with what you say, and something that no one seems to have mentioned is that her ex-boyfriend Ruben was at least as old as Amaro, probably more. I honestly don't believe that was meant to be a huge issue.

When Benito says "she's just a child," he is just engaging in his usual moral hypocrisy--pre-emptively creating a reason that his relationship with Amelia's mother was just fine, while Amaro's was a sin because the girl was young and a virgin.

"I guess I started smoking when I was about...four."

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[–] squirmy_monkey 15 years ago

She is still "just a girl", in the film it is stated she is 16 years old. Also, the dynamic is different with Padre Amaro than her ex-boyfriend because Amaro is a power/authority figure over her. She idolizes Amaro as a representative of God and trusts him completely. And he abuses his power to get what he wants (sex). So yes, he did corrupt a young virgin girl, and by refusing to marry her and guilting her into a backstreet abortion, caused her death. That's why the movie is called "the crime of Padre Amaro" instead of "the bad luck of Padre Amaro".

The film is great because on one hand we want to despise Amaro, but on the other hand we sympathize with him. The story is told from his POV and we can see all the factors leading him to do what he does.

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[–] Colkitto 18 years ago

Incidentally, the age of consent in Mexico varies according to the age gap and local laws. While one has to be eighteen for all restrictions to be lifted, in some cases it goes as low as twelve. Now, how old was Amaro supposed to be? Since Gael was 23 or 24 when he played the part, probably about that age; not too huge a gap from 16, so if the local law (which overrides federal law on these matters) was amenable she may not have been regarded as underage.

While I don't like the idea of legal sex at twelve, I do think that the principle having a variable age of consent that takes the gap into account is much more reasonable than the law here in the UK, where even heavy petting with someone exactly the same age can be considered criminal the day before your 16th birthday but once you turn 16 you're fair game. Maturity arrives gradually and the law should recognise it.

____________________________
"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonourable war" ~ John Adams

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[–] squirmy_monkey 14 years ago

In Mexico it is a crime in ALL states to corrupt a minor. Corruption (in practice) means someone over 18 having sex with a virgin girl 12-18 and then refusing to marry her. It may sound hokey to us but in some parts of Mexico virginity is a big deal and if a guy seduces a girl and then refuses to marry her, he's ruined her reputation so no one else will marry her and also dishonored her family.

ALSO it may not have been translated in the subtitles but the movie says she is 16. To the person that said she's an adult because you don't see her in a high school classroom..LOL..have you ever been to a small town in Mexico? Do you know how many girls even go to middle school, much less high school?

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[–] ruready2getduffed 18 years ago

His crime was not falling in love. His crime was that he took his position as priest to be more important that his love, so much so that he forced Amelia to abort her child, which of course violates Catholic teaching far more than sex does.

His real crime is pride, not lust.

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[–] Colkitto 18 years ago

And, of course, pride is conventionally regarded as the worst of the deadly sins.

____________________________
"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonourable war" ~ John Adams

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[–] ruready2getduffed 18 years ago

Exactly.

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[–] Kinematico 16 years ago

The Crime of father Amaro was not to make the love with Amelia, breaking his celibacy vow. NO! that's not a crime and as the same father Amaro tells to Amelia: "Their love is a blessing".

The TRUE crime is that Father Amaro abandoned whole his christian values and principles and betrayed all of them in order to reach a higher charge in the church.
Amaro lies, blackmails, betrays, falsely accuses lots of people and forces his "lover" to abort in a clandestine place in order to avoid a scandal that might affect his reputation.

In short: the best thing father Amaro did was to fell in love with Amelia, the rest are egotistical choices made by him that affects everybody closely related to him. In particular Amelia but also father Benito, father Nazario, and himself.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] cinephila_7 16 years ago

I totally agree with your post.!

By the way, I also think celibacy is right for priests. I have an uncle who's Christian and a minister. He got married, had three kids, but was sooo devoted to his faith and helping people that he kept on working on it while his kids were growing up and his wife... well she needed some bucks to raise those kids and eat decently!

He dedicates (up to date) his whole time to a reformatory institution he created, and so does his wife (who cooks and cleans for all the insiders and her family). The institution takes place in a very remote area of a border city in Mexico, so they hardly sociallized with people. Their kids grew up with drug-addicts, psycothics, alcoholics, ex-criminals, prostitutes and homeless people who formerly and slowly were reforming their lives. You can take that as an adult, it's a proof of strength and learning, but that is kind of tough for a kid, don't you think?? One of his girls got pregnant from one of the new future reformated guys..

In few words, I think that celibacy for priests is a right rule. Tough? Maybe, like many other rules. They are supossed to love HUMANITY, like a whole, to pray for us as a whole, not an individual! And to live humble, with almost nly what people give them of charity (unless they're popes of course..)! It's part of their vowes!!! That many have broken rules and fall into temptation because after all "We're all humans" is different.

In my opinion, through the last years sex importance has been aroused to such a surreal level, like it's a BASIC need.. When for example successful athletes, to have complete concentration and resistance in mind and body ommit sex for months before competitions.

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[–] RCeditor 16 years ago

By the way, I also think celibacy is right for priests. I have an uncle who's Christian and a minister. He got married, had three kids, but was sooo devoted to his faith and helping people that he kept on working on it while his kids were growing up and his wife... well she needed some bucks to raise those kids and eat decently!

He dedicates (up to date) his whole time to a reformatory institution he created, and so does his wife (who cooks and cleans for all the insiders and her family). The institution takes place in a very remote area of a border city in Mexico, so they hardly sociallized with people. Their kids grew up with drug-addicts, psycothics, alcoholics, ex-criminals, prostitutes and homeless people who formerly and slowly were reforming their lives. You can take that as an adult, it's a proof of strength and learning, but that is kind of tough for a kid, don't you think?? One of his girls got pregnant from one of the new future reformated guys..

This is what I mean. As a "man of the cloth", the person needs to be able to devote his life to doing God's work. It's not fair to bring children into it because the life can not be balanced. The children need to be able to have parents who will devote their time to taking care of and protecting them.

If the man does not want to dedicate his life to the priesthood, then he should not take the vows. He could still give of himself to his fellow man, but since he is a family man, he would be expected to balance his family life and his charity works.

-The Divine Ms Slim

"I make him an offer he no refuse"

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[–] activista 12 years ago

@cinephelia 7

No, I don't think you should have to shut off your sexuality the hell off like a faucet for life because you're part of a certain religion. Juat so you know----the Catholic church created that celibacy rule as a way to keep the lands/properties of priests after they died. If priests were allowed to get married,the wife and kids wouldn't have gotten the properties. That's the only reason that rule was created,mainly due to the church's greed,that's all that really was about. Also, Episcopalian priests can get married, as well as nuns,too. If a minister (man or women) can get married, have kids, and still serve God, then why not the nuns and priests,too? That whole celibacy has never made any sense to me anyway. You're basically supposed to cut off not only a significant aspect of your life as well as any chance of EVER having a relationship with anyone outside of the church? That's crazy and unrealistic as hell,when you really think about it!

I remember reading an article online last year about a priest in California who got suspended from his post,even though he was pretty popular, simply because it was discovered that he was dating a woman--his own age, I might add---they were both fiftyish---she was single,too. I though that was ridiculous as hell, because here were two mature adults seeing each other,and minding their own business,not hurting nobody, but the man gets put on blast for merely dating someone just because he's a priest--it's just stupid as hell to me. In fact,there's a group of married priests demanding that the Catholic Church move into the 21 century and get rid of that celibacy rule altogether for both men AND women in the Catholic church,period. I think that's cool as all heck!

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[–] veryhornyfox 13 years ago

His crime was not falling in love. His crime was that he took his position as priest to be more important that his love, so much so that he forced Amelia to abort her child, which of course violates Catholic teaching far more than sex does.

His real crime is pride, not lust.
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That's what I was thinking to. Towards the end of the film, that's the impression I got even though they lead you to think something else earlier on.

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[–] andrea_anguiano 16 years ago

fornication.

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