Yeah, the Transporter had far better fight scenes then most movies that came out along with it. Of course, those fight scenes were editd down as well (mainly to get a pg-13 rating).
I had a feeling that The Maedallion was heavily edited, especiialy during the end. I mean, they used that crappy slow motion and it was over really quick without really showing the fight at all. There were also a coup;le scenes in the trailer that were not in the theatrical print like the scene where Jackie Chan is shooting acorns or something at the villians as well a cool pop-up from the groud where he he kinda runs along side a corner of a wall to get to his feet (and he does this without wires).
As for why this is done, I have a conspiracy theory of sorts of which involves american movie companies that are afriad of asian action stars, directors, and even choereographers, taking over the american movie industry so they do all they can to make these movies crap (at least during its theatrical run becuase when it goes to video or DVD, it cant really do much damage). And they do this by editing becuase that is the only aspect of making movie that does not involve the actor, director, or choreographer that can make or break it (you can have the best footage ever shot but if its edited like crap then the movie is crap).
sidenote, during one of the end fight scenes, where jackie Chan is taking on like 4 or 5 guys, there is the crappy slow moti0on but in the trailer its at actual speed. That right there should tell you that something is not right.
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black_cat128
21 years ago
I agree completely. American producers suck. They love to butcher perfectly good films and turn them into flashing camera angles and slow motion.
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21 years ago
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illeatyourdog
21 years ago
thats why I said american movie COMPANIES. And Bartkowiak does not really know his way around fight scenes either (I mean I loved cradle to the grave but one thing you do not do is cut away from a Jet Li fight). The Washowski's is about the only exception to the "American's dont know crap" philosophy (well them and Questin taratino possibly. Kill Bill looks very impressive). I mean look at any bigtime american director (Spielberg and such) and thier fight scenes. They completly suck. They do not look at fight scenes as closely as asians do. To bigtime american directors, fight scenes simply pass the time and nothing more, they do not feel that fight scenes can move the story along or devolop the character. Keep in mind that fight scenes are different then action scenes (of course the same type of thinking still applies to action scenes as well.). I would go as far to say that they view actors such as Jet Li, jackie Chan, and Donnie Yen in the same way: they have impressive martial arts skils but martial arts do not make a story, thus, they have no place in my movies. About the only recent movie that was done by a bigtime director, William Fredkin I beleive, that featured fighting as a major element to the story was The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro. Other than that, to watch an american made movie where ifghting was a big portion of the story, you would have to put in an old copy of Rocky.
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gorax
21 years ago
And Bartkowiak does not really know his way around fight scenes either (I mean I loved cradle to the grave but one thing you do not do is cut away from a Jet Li fight).
This is exactly what i think. I'd like to know who decided to cut the fight/action scenes like this and how Bartkowiak - in case he's not responsible himself - could give his blessing to it at all.
The Washowski's is about the only exception to the "American's dont know crap" philosophy (well them and Questin taratino possibly. Kill Bill looks very impressive).
Agreed, but you should not forget that the magnificent fight scenes in Matrix and Matrix Reloaded are mainly the merit of YUEN WOO-PING, who has directed many awesome action flicks in Hong Kong and whom i'd call a true professional, since all of his movies (that i have seen so far) are incredibly well filmed.
Maybe that's also the reason why Tarantino hired him as fight choreographer for Kill Bill...
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illeatyourdog
21 years ago
Well, having a good choreographer is one thing, knowing how to shoot and edit is another. The matrix is a good example of utilizing the choreogrpaher through editing and proper shooting. Romeo must Die and Exit wounds are examples of not utilizing the choreogrpher, all those films had Corey Yuen as the Choreographer
but through poor direction and shots, it makes Corey yuen look like a medirocre choreohrapher (well in exit wounds, their wasnt much that could be done since it was Steven Seagal heh. To see a movie where Corey Yeun was utilized more effeciently, watch The Transporter.). Cradle 2 the Grave is right in between Matrix and Romeo Must Die. Its not as good as the Matrix but it is a huge improvment over Exit Wounds and Romeo Must Die (of course Cradle, still could have been edited much better. One of the speciual features is showing the final fight from three different angles and about 80% of the shots were the poorest of the three). As for Kill Bill, Questin Taratino has two choreographers, Yuen woo-Ping and SOnny Chiba which should be real interesting, one choreographer is an expert at choreographing fantasy-like fight scenes while the other is good at choreographing brutal, dirty fight scenes (if you have seen The Street FIghter, you know what Im talking about).
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gorax
21 years ago
Interesting thoughts, seems that my view of the issue was way too simple. Everything you're saying makes perfectly sense, but as for Sonny Chiba - i've never heard of him before (shame on me). "The Street Fighter" sounds as if it's my kind of movie, thanks a lot for mentioning it.
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illeatyourdog
21 years ago
well, its very understandable that you havnt heard of him. His best movies were made in the 70s and they were horribly dubbed (luckily, it was so horible that it made it a hilarious comedy at times). I would say that his Street FIghter Series, were the ony movies that came close to competiung with Bruce Lee's (from a fight scene standpoint. Story and acting wise might be another story). However, his movies are extremly violent, I mean its about the only action movie that could compete with horror movies with gore heh.
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KubricksRube
15 years ago
Before bashing American film-makers, check out the comedians of the silent era, who were a big influence on Chan. In particular, study the works of Buster Keaton, who was not only a great physical comedian, but one of the greatest directors EVER, not just in comedy or of the silent era. Start with The General. Move onto Our Hospitality, Sherlock Jr., and The Cameraman.
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