Ray - White Oleander (2002) Discussion

[–] Nothin_But_the_Rain 19 years ago

No way, Ray's a sleazebag who cheats on his wife and has sex with little girls. It doesn't matter how sweet he was or how much Astrid wanted him. Grown men should have more self control than to take a very young teenager's virginity, especially when that girl clearly has some confusion about what is right and wrong because of her crazy sociopathic mother.

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[–] mafia_princess2008 19 years ago

I can't help it im like a kid and i want him cole hauser is so hot! So do my friends we rented the movie a long time ago but we just kept rewinding it to the part where he had his shirt on...no im talking about cole hauser on how cute he is...i know ray is sick but with cole hauser playing the part it doesnt bother me.

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[–] arassi_a 19 years ago

I Can't believe there's someone loves "Ray" as I do.He's really so cute and I've just found he also played in "PAPARAZZI".
Is it worth to see that movie? I heard it's not good.

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[–] mafia_princess2008 19 years ago

Well i dont remember if it is good but all i did basically is watch cole hauser...Omg arassi a you love ray to? I read the book and that ray sounds discussting and all i liked about it was the sex scene in the book i think they should have showed that part in the movie....

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[–] devgel 19 years ago

for ur information his wife left him, and besides he's really hot, besides he's really hot.

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[–] Stacehoney72 14 years ago

He had sex with her? Ewwww he is old enough to be her father. :/

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[–] misscatwoman23 19 years ago

i agree about Ray being a perv. i dont think it was romantic at all. he's a sleazebag. i think the guy she met in the home was much better for her.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] WanderingGeek 19 years ago

Astrid is a Homewrecker, I mean Starr took her in, Supported her and what does Astird do? Sleep with her Boyfriend. And Ray is a Perv for Sleeping with Teenage girls. Astrid also ruined Owen and Davie's Lives too (The 2 Little Boys) I mean now, god knows what would happen to them

"Have you ever felt a knife tear through human flesh and scrape the bone beneth"

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[–] PsychChick128 18 years ago

I don't think Ray took away Astrid's virginity. Didn't later on in the movie that Astrid say to her mom that she was raped by a man her mom dated? I think the man (not Ray) also beat Astrid's mom, Ingrid.

Cole Hauser is hot.

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[–] mood_ring13 18 years ago

no, none of that ever happened.

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[–] PsychChick128 18 years ago

Whatever.

Viggo is hot.

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[–] Luv2151986 18 years ago

Ok, wait. While Cole Hauser is indeed attractive, he's supposed to be around 40 in the film and around 50 in the book, and Astrid (although you may not be able to tell in the movie) is 12(!!) when they have their little trist. That is not cool. Go read the book and see if you feel the same way.

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[–] personalitybabe 18 years ago

no he never raped astrid. they were just talking about things they could say happened to get her mom out of jail.

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[–] bunny226622 18 years ago

Does anyone else think that Astrid should have ended up with Ray? I cant help it i think he is so cute in this movie does anyone else think he is so hot? Cause no one else has talked about it.

No, he's not supposed to be having sex with a kid.

for ur information his wife left him, and besides he's really hot, besides he's really hot.

Um. . .and that makes it all okay?

Ok, wait. While Cole Hauser is indeed attractive, he's supposed to be around 40 in the film and around 50 in the book, and Astrid (although you may not be able to tell in the movie) is 12(!!) when they have their little trist. That is not cool. Go read the book and see if you feel the same way.

WHOA!. . .I though he was like 35 and she was 14 or 15.

Oh my god, the turkeys are hitting the ground like sacks of wet cement!

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[–] tommykins-1 18 years ago

I read the book first, and it was a lot clearer that Ray seduced Astrid. She was super vulnerable because she was so desperate for love or attention from anyone. Sex never became important to her, but his attention was.

The guy was a major perv to do that, even if you think the actor that played him was hot.

Also, his girlfriend (Astrid's foster mother) was a psycho jealous bitch, which he knew. Still he went ahead just because he felt like it.

I don't remember exactly what happened in the movie, but in the book, the foster mother shot Astrid twice with a .38 during a screaming fit. Astrid (out of loyalty, and a sense of guilt) wouldn't tell the police who shot her (even though they were pretty sure).

So off to another foster home, this one where her foster mother refused to feed her or the other girls, chaining the refrigerator shut. So she was reduced to trying to find food in the garbage cans at high school. You can imagine how this went over with the other students (kids like you guys).

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[–] fluttergirl84 17 years ago

Yeah, he overstepped his boundaries big time. I remember in the book when she said, "I'm a fish swimming by, catch me if you want to" and undressed for him, so she's not entirely innocent. However, he was the adult in the situation, and he should've taken control and said no. Unfortunately he didn't.

I agree that Cole Hauser is hot, but Ray in the book was different. Much older, probably not as attractive. I didn't want him and Astrid to end up together, but I kind of hoped Ray would try to contact her in some way after she left to say sorry or wish her well. I suppose that proves he wasn't as nice as a guy as she thought.

"Most fools think they are only ignorant." -Benjamin Franklin

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[–] dreaminskinscentedsentences 18 years ago

Astrid was 14 when in the book when she slept with Ray; I think she was 15 in the movie. Not that that makes it right. I don't entirely condemn the relationship, since it was two very lonely(though Ray was with Starr) and confused people coming together. It was so sad in the book when Ray abandoned her after she was shot. But of course, the age does make it wrong.

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[–] springwater16 17 years ago

I am not going to lie, I kind of wish they would have ended up together too, but that probably would have made it too cliche and there is no way they would allow that outcome in a movie anyway. I do however think they were kindred spirits who found each other.

An interesting question is would he have been able to adpot her or become her foster parent alone?

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[–] WanderingGeek 17 years ago

Astrid and Ray never Slept together, Where the hell did you get that idea?

This is what REALLY Happened,

Astrid went to see Ray on the construction site and she and Ray had a long discussion on the political situation in America. Long story short, Astrid took her cloths off and ran naked into the sunset... Duh! LOL!

LOL, No really, Rays a Perv, Astrid is a White Trash Homewrecker.

Micheal Scott: This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outa here.

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[–] marrryjaaaane 17 years ago

Yeah, I wish they would have ended up together. I mean, if Ray was a 350 pound hairy old guy who smelled funny, then yeah, I would have considered that disgusting. But the actor who played Ray, Cole Hauser, is really cute...

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[–] fluttergirl84 17 years ago

Legally I don't think he'd have any right to. He and Starr weren't married, and he didn't seem to have a place of his own. Just an assumption; I'm not up-to-date with foster home regulations.

"Most fools think they are only ignorant." -Benjamin Franklin

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Madonna-whore 13 years ago

Ray's not a perv, he was just weak to temptation, it's much better explained in the book, but he is kind of a sleazebag, cheated on his wife with Starr, he fell for her when she was a topless dancer because his wife wouldn't give him any (kinda understandable), and when Astrid asks him about his life he says he has a wife and a son and hasn't seen them in years, and doesn't seem to care if he ever does again, so maybe he's a deadbeat, but I think he really fell for Astrid, she had the body of a young woman but the brains of a much older woman, altho she was very innocent, she fully wanted him. I maybe agree that he was the older man and he should have been more responsible, and I think he was happy with Starr, until he met an intelligent girl he could actually have something more than just crazy sex with, because that's all it was with Starr, at least that's how I interpreted it in the book.

And obviously the guy she met in the home (Mac, I think) was better for her, but Ray was first love, the one she idealized because she mixed him up between a father figure and her lover, he was an experience, her first experience, helped her get to know herself sexually and emotionally, we all had that, we very rarely wind up with the first guy we love, and let's face it, most of the time, the first guy we love is totally wrong for us. I haven't finished reading the book, but as soon as I do I'm updating this comment, lol.

---------------------------------
That was longer than a heartbeat!

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[–] naniloa1234 17 years ago

The subplot of Ray and Astrid is one of my favourites in the movie.Being a young girl(I'm 18 now but have been younger obviously)who was always attracted in older men i can related to Astrid.She told Starr that she never had a father!She confused the role of a father and the role of a lover and she saw both in Ray so she attached herself to him.That is exactly what i would have done.
I wish they had ended up together!Astrid was like another Lolita if you think about it.

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[–] springwater16 17 years ago

I wouldn't go as far as calling her a Lolita. I don't think she intentionally suduced him. I think she just was attracted to him and they had a stong connection, so she decided to have sex with him. I do think they made a much better couple than Starr and Ray, but she did sort of come in and steal him away from her.

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[–] HoCkeYChiCk57 17 years ago

I was attracted to him in the movie as well. Then I read the book and felt way diffrent. Cole Hauser is a great actor, but he was a poor casting choice for the role--nothing like how he is described in the book to make you feel the way you're supposed to about him--revolted!

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] used_girl_hedley 17 years ago

just to add to what a skeeze ray was, he also left astrid there to bleed to death after HIS psycho girlfriend shot her over him seducing astrid...can anyone say creeper?

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[–] naniloa1234 17 years ago

wow melodywyllie!I had no idea he was just 4 years older than her...Well then credits go to him for playing his role so convincingly and not to Allison.Although she is very,very talented!

As for the Lolita thing. It seemed to me like she was experimenting in a way. She probably felt gratitude for what Starr did for her but she couldn't helpt the connection she felt for Ray.She needed him so she proceeded. Astrid is really a strong character in my eyes. She may appear fragile but she's tough.

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[–] kitteymagic 17 years ago

Yes, i thought it would of been sweet if they bumped into each other at the end....

~~*AIM*~~

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[–] HyacinthGarden 17 years ago

No way. And not because of the age. I dated an older man who totally motivated me to be successful in my life when I was fifteen, and I've been thankful for that ever since. However, Ray totally abandons her when Starr goes after her. Plus, he's a cheater.

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[–] RunawayUK 16 years ago

Ray is so crap in the film. It makes no sense. There is so much more of it in the book, he is a totally different character. he needs to be uglier and featured so much more. Their relationship was so much more important in the book and kinda, didnt make much sense in the film

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[–] cms_star84 16 years ago

Thanks again to Hollywood for distorting the youth's views on life. In the movie Ray was hot. I'll admit it. It did not, however, convince me to change my mind about pedophilia and encourage grown men to sleep with children. In the movie Ray is in his 30's. And young and attractive. In the movie Astrid is young and innocent and not really sure what to make of him.

In the book it's a whole other story.

Ray is almost 50 years old. She was 14 in the book. That's almost a 35 year age difference. He's a hippie who smokes dope all the time and has graying long hair. He's also missing 3 fingers. Astrid is far from innocent. Whoever said the book went into more depth about how Ray seduced Astrid needs to read it again. She seduced him.

Now, since the OP was obviously a girl under the age of 18 try imagining your friends father trying to have sex with you. Or the middle-aged clerk at 7-11. Would it be so "cute" then? This is PEDOPHILIA. It's a crime. It's disgusting. There is never an excuse or justification for men in their late forties to be having sex with pre-teens.

I don't care how hot he is.

"Did you just say 'Hello'?"

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Singingaj 16 years ago

So basically the guy that played Barry should have played Ray?

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[–] Darcieh 14 years ago

Thank you cms_star84 for talking some sense!

Astrid was far from the innocent little girl some call her! She seduced him, and even spoke about trying to get him alone to seduce him. There is a wonderful moment in the book when Astrid loses her faith in God and decides she does want Ray. (When Starr questions her about her interest in Ray)

And yes, she is quite similar Lolita. Both were young girls who seduced older men (although I'm not sure if I'd trust Humbert Humbert's version ;) because of a lack of father figure!

Oooh Policeman Brown, never quite made Officer, why was that Policeman Brown?

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