How can Wener (German leader)only killed Bruce? His factories were just destroyed, wouldn't he be showing little more madness? Especially towards Hart or Scott who were helping the POW to escape. This part is unrealistic as hell!!
shareI would imagine they were trying to show the "honor" theme they were discussing, he made a deal with Bruce. He kepts his word. But the unrealistic thing was that he didn't go back to his office and shoot himself. The SS would have been at his camp the next day to do it anyway.
shareyeahh! I thought this also. that he would commit suicide, it's not shown in the film, but obviously in real life he would. that's what they meant when they said they 'both lose'
sharewell, this war poor man's Great Escape...
what a bad script!
the part when the american commander comes back to be shot by the german one was awful!
According to the director there was a scene written that would show Wener going to his home and shortly afterward a gun shot would be heard. It's assumed that's what he did. As McNammara told him, "we both loose". Werner acknowledges that fact, which to me says he knows he's going to be arrested and shot for incompetence. I always assumed that when he just walked away, back to his headquarters, he was going to go and kill himself.
shareThe ending was awful.
The movie didn't really know what it wanted to be-- serious war film. Escape/action thriller. A commentary on racism. It was all over the place.
But back to the ending--
The notion that the Nazi Commandant would kill himself is pure tripe and cliche.
I tell you what SHOULD have happened at the end.
McNamara makes his speech, and the Commandant says "and now you want to trade your life for theirs...".
Given the man the Commandant was, and given what he knew about McNamara, his next line should have been--
"No Colonel. You ordered this plan. You made the decision. You live with it..."
And the the Commandant has the men shot while McNamara watches.
No easy death. No noble sacrifice. No hero's end, going out in glory. Nope. just McNamara forced to live with the consequences.
AE36
I quite like your ending, but I disagree with your overall "The Ending was awful" The way I read it was, as soon as he pulled the trigger & shot McNamara...his anger dissipated & he knew, as McNamara had said: We both lose. It sunk in.
I read elsewhere in this thread that the Commandant goes home & does the honourable thing....suicide...(as obviously he will be hung as a war criminal)(As an alternative official film ending.)
In your ending...everyone dies on the commandants orders....
But did we really want that massive bloodshed just to prove how right WE were? (In WW2 I mean) Just to feel better as we left the cinema? Justified! We beat Evil!
No, I think we leave the film wondering what WE would have done in the shoes of either the Commandant or McNamara....That's what a film should do: Make US think! Make us examine our own consciences..... Both were strong characters: yet what made them tick? what made them so idealistic? (All films should do this in my opinion...it's what separates us from the pond life....No?)
One, despite being 4th Generation Army Stock...had achieved little in his own eyes, the other, a WW1 hero, yet 'relegated' to a POW camp....having lost his son already in this, the second world war of his own life.....
The anger & frustration of both men was paramount to making this film work. And work it did for me.
I enjoyed it. (And I enjoyed Bruce Willis's acting here.)
And as I say, your alternate ending is interesting, but I think the stark camera work in the films ending speaks volumes: The dark miserable despair of humankind: Despite our best efforts, whatever our beliefs, we see our own failures & our best efforts lost for eternity.......as nothing more than dust motes on the face of the planet. And that is all we will ever be. To be more,is to achieve the nigh-on-impossible....but it is what spurs us on.
I could not agree more with what you said, this movie performed poorly at the boxoffice because it is a terrible movie. I'm not saying the movie didn't have cool or even some awesome moments but they were squandered in what turned out to be a movie with no apparent goal or at least they couldn't decide exactly what this movie was supposed to be about. And I also agree, the ending is one of the worst I've seen in a non-B-movie, ie a movie with good actors and some serious money behind it. I'm surprised that neither Bruce Willis nor Colin Farrell took a look at this final product and said something like "hey, this movie doesn't really make any sense, the story is all over the place and the ending sucks", but I guess sometimes these dudes just get paid and move on to the next thing without much care. However, I think that this movie along with "Alexander" are what took Colin Farrell off of the "A-List" of actors and now instead of headlining movies as the star he is almost unrecognizable as a secondary character in a new comedy movie.
shareSo his anger was focused mainly at him. I'm sure he realized then exactly why he returned the gun to him even though he was drunk and vulnerable at the time, and why the entire court martials proceedings was put into play.
I'm sure he realized too that his career was over as a camp commander. He probably got sacked by the German High Command the very next day. Lastly, he was privy to information that the Russians were weeks away from overrunning the camp, and the war was pretty much lost.
If he was an SS commander he would have just had everybody shot.
If the war was over 3 months later, it's relevant to point out that, by this time, most Germans were well aware that they were about to lose. Berlin was rubble, Hitler had already retreated to his bunker, and the Allied Forces were advancing fast. While there was widespread slaughter at concentration camps -- in an attempt to cover up the evidence by removing the witnesses -- the POW camps were administered by a lot less fanatical (and guilty) soldiers. It's entirely feasible to argue Colonel Visser was accepting that the end was inevitable. Once his anger died down, defused by Colonel McNamara's return, he had time to consider his situation, and to consider the situation of his own men. There are actually known cases of POW's being freed, or at least abandoned, by their guards as the war drew to a close and the German army fled.
shareBecause it's a movie. In real life:
There probably would not have been a court martial conducted by the POW's, but by the German Army. By the Geneva Convention, the prisoners were under German military law, at least in matters like this. This also applied to Germans being held prisoner by the Allies and there were trials, convictions, and executions for murder.
At the end, NcNamara (Willis), Hart (Farrell), Scott (Howard), and whoever else looked guilty would have been arrested and handed over to the Gestapo. That would be just the start. Considering what Hitler did when 76 prisoners escaped from Stalag Luft III the previous year without committing sabotage, it's entirely likely that the whole camp, guards included, would end up in a concentration camp or be executed.
Agreed.
In real life, he would have shot them all.
In real life, he would have shot them all.