NOT Victorian!


Sorry, I must vent. So if you do not wish to hear my ranting, please don't read this.


Why must everyone go around calling this movie "Victorian"? It is set in the Regency period, which is *before* the Victorian period. This movie is set around 1815, and a few years beyond, which is more than 20 years before then! Please people, get your dates straight! I am thirteen and I know the difference. You can't even compare the two periods. They had completely different values and rules. They didn't even wear the same clothing.

I'm very sorry if I've offended anyone, but it really annoys me.

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You aren't all that familiar with the rules regarding apostrophes, are you? Oh, well. That young lady is right to be irritated at people's ignorance. I am thrilled that someone so young obviously cares so much about accuracy and knows so much about history. FWIW, by correcting people, she IS making sure that people aren't, ahem, getting their eras wrong.

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God, I wish all my students were like you. You have impressed me, young lady. Keep up the good work!

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Thank goodness! I really thought I was going to get hounded for it. I happy that some people appreciate history enough to say soemthing. The Regency period is my favorite, and it just annoys me to no end when people describe it as Victorian. What I think is funny also, is that when they write it, it almost sounds as if they want to look intelligent by saying, "Oh, and it takes place in the Victorian period. Look at me, I'm so clever because I know the name of *one* time period." But no, it just sort of defeats the purpose.....

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Thank you! All of my friends think that if a movie is set in England in the past, it is automatically "Victorian". Besides, why would someone hound you? You made an intelligent post. Something that is rare on IMDB...

"Don't worry, Penny, its only one A.M. You still have time to get pregnant."
www.evagreenweb.com

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It's based on a Victorian era book. That's why it's referred to as Victorian. We're reading it in Victorian lit class

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Not to be nitpicky, but I thought/was taught that Sir Walter Scott's novel Waverley was considered the first historical novel written... roughly 30 years before Vanity Fair. But either way, hurrah for intelligent 19th-century conversation!

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This poster is on target. Thackeray was a Victorian writer. His novel was read immediately by Victorian audiences. Thackeray himself admits to taking minor liberties when it comes to being historically accurate.

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Babe its good you know the difference but the only real difference between these to periods is clothing the values of the 19th century were quite consistent especially in England. I have a degree in British Literature so why don't you just play with your barbie dolls little girl.

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Okay, pamjpaxton, I think love you just a little bit.

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Don't be such a prat.

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I would play with them, had I not abandoned them when I was seven. However, I really don't see a reason to play with them just because you have a degree in British Literature, which clearly hasn't done you any good. Rather, it's just given you another reason to be rude to other people, but I guess *you* don't really need a reason, since it's kind of natural.

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It's really pathetic how many jerks there are in this discussion.

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I have a pet peeve about the costumes, too.

I know a renowned director, Mira Nair, who is of Indian decent directed this.

She is critically acclaimed, but this is a film set in England.

Did anyone else notice that she threw in Indian garb for the older women to wear? The brightly colored sashes (Pinks, yellows, bright reds) with gold trim that are obviously traditional Indian garb? I have studied a lot of British literature and history and as far as I know this is not the way women of that time period would have fashioned themselves. India was responsible for trade and strengthening the Brtish economy at the time, but in my studies there was quite a bit of snobbery about India as a country on behalf of proper English families.

It irritated me. I know this is her interpretation, and she wanted to emphasize the realtion between England and its sovereign country, India (overemphasized, if you ask me) but it did not feel correct to the time period.



Amanda

"She was drunk or he was crazy."

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While you make a good point, actually the older ladies in the regency period tended to wear quite Indian inspired clothing. Although I am not sure about sashes, turbans were massively popular amongst the socially elite, especially in England.

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I haven't seen the movie yet, but was the England monarch in control of Indian territories at that time? Maybe the influence of India supposedly spread to these woman???

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They give degrees in "British" literature to illiterate morons?

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It is a pity that you did not pick up some of the basics of grammar, some historical knowledge and perhaps the values of respect from your "British" Literature degree.

One thing I can't stand is intolerance.

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What, pray tell, is "British" Literature?

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You have got to be kidding?

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What I'm guessing the poster means, is that there is English literature, or Welsh or Scottish literature. But saying British literature is like saying Asian or Soviet literature, it's such a broad term, both politically and geographically, it has little meaning. "Britain" isn't a culture, it's a political state (Great Britain) or an island. Cultures produce literature--Britain's constituent cultures (any one of which could be said to have their own representative body of literature) are England, Scotland and Wales.

(This is a pet peeve of mine, I must say: English != British. The two are often conflated but they are not the same.)

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I completely agree, but a literature course in which one studies works by English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish writers couldn't be called "Englsh Literature"; it would have to be called "British Literature."

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But would there be such a course? Why would someone study all those literatures under the aegis of one course, when really the only thing that unites them is geography?

(And the Scottish Celt in me is cringeing at the thought of Scottish literature being referred to as "British." We are not Brits, we're Celts! :)

Nice to have a civil discussion about this, BTW!

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Actually, many colleges and unversities in the US and Canada offer such courses. (I took two survey courses in British Literature at uni.) I suppose they group them together because they feel that there isn't enough enrollment in Scotish or Welsh literature to offer as a separate course.

http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/rickard/EN280.html

Oxford Encyclopedia of British Lit
http://www.oxford-britishliterature.com/LOGIN?sessionid=5e208cb7c84b3b 0b9affbdb255b87987&authstatuscode=414

Harvard University's British Literature Colloquium
http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k40975&pageid=icb.pag e193182

Broadview Anthology of British Literature
http://www.broadviewpress.com/babl/

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I would think that one reason to label the subject 'English Literature' rather than 'British Literature' is that virtually all of that literature is written in the English language, or one of its dialects. The Welsh, Scots, Manx, and Irish languages are not living literary languages.

When discussing Greek literature it is generally not significant where the author lived, only the historical period in which he wrote. A Greek poem or play written by someone from Syracuse, Ephesus, or Alexandria would be considered part of Greek literature, not Sicilian, Asian, or Egyptian literature.

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*Sigh* How easy it is to spill out facts after just learning them. I assure that I am thankful that you have pointed out this difference and thanks to you, I will be researching this more closely. But do remember, there is a huge difference between fluid intelligence and crystal intelligence. Ruminate on that for a while my teenage British scholar.

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very good point - any fan of blackadder 3 would know this.

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HAHAHAH YES. I die a little bit (happily!) whenever the Duke of Wellington or the Prince Regent are mentioned in the book.

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OK not being rude here, but who said it was Victorian? I mean considering that a the Battle of Waterloo is in this film, i would've thought that anyone thinking this film was Victoria must be very unknowledable. The clothes are nothing like Victorian. Even the fact that Becky paints the walls of their lounge with a scene and not Victorian wall paper, this alone makes it ovious its not in the Victorian era.
Needless to say, when Becky dose that dance its NOT to Queen Victoria - i would hate to see whats going through some peoples minds.

I can totally understand you anger.

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Thank you, neogirl, I didn't think of those reasons specifically, but you make good points :D Oh, several random people have called it Victorian. Even people who have done *summaries* of the movie have called it Victorian. I thought that was the saddest thing. But one poster above is right, it is a Victorian book. Just not set in the Victorian time period. So, I do know that :D
Yeah, all of my friends think that if a film/book is in England before the 20th century, then it must be Victorian. It appalls me when they look at pictures from the Georgian period with panniers mand call it Victorian. Kills me.
But, once again, I wasn't trying to be rude or throw it into someone's face that I knew something they didn't, it just really drove me crazy when I saw that in a review.

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i loved the film .

i didnt go to see a documentary , but an experience , and mira nair has managed to put a different vision of the work onto the screen.

there have been slightly more accurate versions ... the fact that there are around 10 just points to how daunting it is to distill a mammoth literary work into 120 minutes .

the pompous " eng lit degree" guy needs to burn it and get a life.

but its good to see so much reaction to a movie ... which is what it is.

calm down dears ... its only a film

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Here's what: a lot of Americans use "Victorian" as a shorthand for "19th century" with respect to Britain. You can be nitpicky and say it was the Regency (a term I didn't know), but I did read a history of Victorian England, and it covered 1815 to 1906 or so (Schnitzler's Century, by Peter Gay, not that good a book, but he is authoritative if that term means anything). You may be right that people are being slightly sloppy, but I think it rather snobbish. You know this difference, but you can't expect everyone to know the royal succession of every country, or even every important country.

Also, though I don't know the details, (I did think the costuming in the movie rather, uhh, "interpretive"), I am pretty certain that there wasn't a sea change in values from the Regency to the Victorian era. You are more than welcome to correct me. Mind you, I'm not saying there are no differences -- just that I doubt there's a huge disjunction, as was brought on by the French Revolution for instance.

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Excuse me but are you calling me a snob?
But one little question. Have you ever seen/heard of a king called Victoria? No? why yes becuase it's a girls name...a Queens name.

The scene where Becky performs the 'sexy dance' it's for THE KING. I don't mean to sound snobbish here, but just incase you didn't know....kings are always males and thus can't be named Victoria! see it's so simple really!

Goodness i mean you must've had trouble with the film, with people talking about the King and your sat thier like 'where is Queen Victoria? is it King Victoria?' I can see where you'd get confused. I hope that i have helped. Any other troubles, i suggest reading a book once in a while.

And for anyone who starts with the well in victorian lit class, yes but this topic was about the period in which the book/film was set.

To end on a nice note Vanity was a great film that was fun to watch.

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Nice reply neogirl! :-D


I know what you're doing... and I like it.

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Well, no I was calling the originator of the thread "slightly snobbish".

I think you must not have read my post carefully:

it cites having read a book on the era

it does not dispute that the period in question is "the Regency"

it primarily takes issue with the tone of the initial post -- i.e., the implication that a viewer would be stupid for calling the film Victorian.

You calling me stupid and/or patriarchal or whatnot is, well, besides the point.

Oh, and I reiterate that this film is rushed, lushly visual without any content, and plays like a social climbers video game -- reached next state, impress next patron! Little to no emotional payoff -- quite a contrast to Pride and Prejudice.

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So young so connoisseur (exhibere)

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Actually there was a fairly large disjunction between the Regency and Victorian periods, mainly because Queen Victoria was a bit of a prude and a snob. The major difference is that the Regency period was one of the most hedonistic and pleasure seeking periods in English history and the Victorian period was one of the most staid and prudish periods of all times.

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The term Victorian is not limited just to England but it extends to the United States as well. This is the reason we have houses that are VICTORIAN. If you lived somewhere that had a history that went farther back than 25 years when your subdivision was built, then maybe you would know this.
And there WAS a shift in values after the Victorian period. Victorian society was repressive and extremely modest. Not only was there a rejection of the ideals of Classicism that were popular in the Regency period, but the Industrial Revolution greatly shook up the class system.

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yes! i was wondering if i could sneak in some sort of P&P reference as a devoted fan, but you did it first! hurrah for accuracy in costuming!!

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