It's been a while since I've seen this, so the only two I can remember are: 1. when Val gets left behind as the limo drives away and 2. when Wyatt is on the phone describing the girls to Fiona. I was not impressed with that stuff. :( Anyone else know where Wyatt's hatred may have stemmed from?
I'll think about that tomorrow.
I haven't seen this film in ages but I remember the gags you mention.
I wasn't sure quite how to take them. I thought maybe it was because she was smarter that Josie and Melody, but at the same time it remminded me of a british group called Eternal.
They were a four piece r&b girl group, 3 black + 1 white. Over here, no one noticed or cared, ditto in europe and asia. However when the band tried to break the USA the record company cut Louise (the white girl) out of at least 1 of their videos and re-tinted (along with cutting all close-ups of Louise) another so the bands racial mix wasn't obvious(!). Louise also complained that during radio/TV interviews and promotional "meet & greets" she was often sidelined or outright ignored.
While all this occured before the movie came out (Louise left the band in 1995 if I remember rightly, with Josie coming out in 2001, meaning the script probably would have been drafted around 1998/99), I think it reflected that race around that time was probably still an issue for many people in the USA music industry.
Maybe the writers were reflecting that. That said, such a sudject doesn't sit well with the rest of the film, so I'm tempted to go along with the "she was the smart one" theory.
"I think you're a load of old crap too, Mr Mulligan."
She was left behind because she was more aware of the change in their group dynamic. She was referred to as 'incredibly tan' because:
1.) she is tan
2.) it's potlitically correct and
3.) being a black person is not as vogue or main stream as being tan.
It could be racist, it could be race. It may have just been packaging, as in how do you sell a band to a black american audience who has one white in it? Doesn't fit the sacred mold. How stupid.
Scarlett - thanks for replying. I thought you were overly sensitive in your question, and from all the replies come a lot of different viewpoints. Hate to warmy say we all learned something here, but we did. 'Racial' posts often devolve into the opinions of loud morons. (unfortunately, it's human nature)
Love the 'expendable bass player' remark - like the exploding drummers in 'spinal tap'.
I think your looking entirely too much into that. The limo started to drive off without her because she was the only one at the time questioning Wyatt's judgement about the welfare of the band (the discussion about the billboard). Remember when Melody started saying that Fiona creeped her out he was ready to just kill the both of them.
Yeah, I think you're a little over-sensitive. It's just cataloguing all the moments 'Val' felt left out and all the glory and fame went to Josie. She’s considered so unimportant that she doesn’t get an invite and the limo leaves before her.
Remember this was originally a comic book and Valerie is incredible tan (in the words of Wyatt) in the archies. So I don’t think she’s added to poke fun of race or too sell to a black audience (who every suggested that above). That’s how the plot flowed. Melanie was too oblivious and didn’t care, she was happy to be with her friends and on this magical experience and that only leaves one person. Valerie. It’s just the beginnings of the thickening plot.
Why does everything have to be a freaking race issue...He snubbed Tara Reids character too..I guess hes predjudice against stupid people as well...Oh and he did refer to himself as white ass wally so I guess he hates white people too..get a life and stop reading so much into a freaking movie idiot!
shareWhat I find hilarious is the fact that Rosario Dawson is not incredibly tan. When he calls her incredibly tan, that always bothers me because I'm like "What the heck are you talking about?" She's like one shade darker than the other girls. LOL. There's not much of a difference between any of their skin colors. But I never got a racist vibe from it.
shareYeah - I thought Val was a bit racist too. I was really upset when she told the Manager "don't you have anywhere else to be?"....that was a HUGE jibe towards Jews. I really don't understand why the black characters always have to be so racist towards everyone else. I just don't get it.
Do you see how freaking stupid this sounds? Scarlett - WHY?! Why do folks always "look" for racism, when in fact there isn't any....Don't you realize that every time you do this crap, it empowers minorities to scream racism over everything?
Wow, all I can say is... wow. If you folks cared to read the entire thread, you would see that I admitted to misjudging the movie and that it made more sense to me now. I do not look for racism. I hate it. I've dealt with it all my life. And for the record, I am white, so before you start accusing me of being an angry minority, think again.
Take the time to get all the facts before you start flaming me for something that I took responsibility for being wrong about.
The irony behind this thread is that Valerie nearly didn't exist in the TV series because of racism.Valerie originated in the comic book in December 1969 in issue 45,the same issue that the comic book was retitled Josie and the Pussycats from Josie.The first 16 issues were titled She's Josie.Anyway,this is the issue that the band is created,with Alexandra being bumped for newcomer Valerie. Alan M. had been introduced in #42,created a band called the Jesters which didn't last long.Alan M. actually met Alexandra first but she was more interested in him than he and her,and when Josie and Alan fall in love,Alexandra,previously friendly to Josie,never forgives her and seeks her witchly revenge forever after,something that got dropped from the TV show.I guess Sabrina the teenage witch was one too many.Josie's original object of affection was Alexandra's twin brother Alexander.But he wanted Melody and ...oh,it's too complicated. Anyway.Valerie was introduced to coincide with the TV series which debuted September 12,1970.However,during the making of the series Hannah Barbera started to wimp out on having a black character,so they asked the animators to make her white.When the black musicians involved in the production found out about this,they rallied around the young singer Patrice Holloway who was to be Val's singing voice.(Her dialogue was done by Barbara Parriot).Everyone caved in and Valerie became the first black character in a continuing role on Saturday Morning cartoons,beating out the Harlem Globetrotters by ownly half an hour in their back to back animated debuts. It was a hit.It also made a minor star out of Patrice,who ironically dominates as Josie's singing voice over Josie's designate performer Catherine Dougherty(Credited on the series as Dougher and other places as Douglas) who sounded too much like a young rising star named Michael Jackson.I'm not making this up.Anyway,Cathy disappeared into obscurity,while Melody's singing voice Cherie Stopplemeyer,now better known as Cheryl Ladd went on to star as one of Charlie's Angels.Their tie-in record bombed and so did their tour as the band.For Josie and the PC's in Outerspace they were completely replaced.This was to cash in on the recently launched space station Skylab.The original record is now a hard to find cult item,but has been reissued a few times on C.D.
sharewhen someone brings up race seems to make people here uncomfortable. im not saying the movie is terrible, i loved it. just dont be blind to what its suggesting. The thing is being the "black" one in the group she kinda stood out. How many mainstream bands do you see these days with black people in them? Its just sorta of playing on the notion that, well since they were getting more famous the "tan" member would be phased out.
true tara reids chracter was also targeted by wyatt, but I also saw the racial undertones the movie wanted to show. Of how the industry likes to have tings sorta separate, like bands are usually white, and then you have r&b an rap predominantly black excluding eminem and a few others. You really dont see much mixing.
also you se how he was describing them. tlc with 2 white members etc. Not just saying its a girl band. Sorta saying that the industry looks at things like race. The movie isnt racist, but it shows those racial undertones just ike it shows the stuff about ads etc. Its satire
Honestly, I have to say as an African American, growing up in Dallas during the 1990's when this came out - I was about 10-11 when this came out - I've always felt that they Wyatt was targeting Val because she was black... Seriously, black performers always get messed up/deleted/ manipulated out of bands because of their color/culture. I just though Wyatt was a bit racist even at 10. Watching it at 25 now, I do see the ways that she was targeted because she was simply a bassist.
In all, I think this movie dealt with racism in a way that was both subtle and obvious
R.I.P Michael Jackson, your star will keep on shining
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