Question for ballet dancers - Center Stage (2000) Discussion

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

Do you mean what are they doing to their pointe shoes? They are 'breaking them in', loosening the paper mache and wood insides of the shoes to make it easier to dance in them. If you don't soften the shoes they are too hard and can be dangerous.

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[–] star_hottie 18 years ago

i cant even stand to put my feet in the till they are broken in!

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[–] DundiesWinner 18 years ago

Ripping out the insole: I'm guessing to cut down the shank (the hard part that touches your arch), otherwise, I don't know what that's for
Cutting the top of the toe off: so you won't slip on the satin when going on pointe
Burning the top: To stop the thread from the part that you cut from fraying
Wetting the shoe: on the heel, it helps the shoe stay on, otherwise, it will soften the shoe so it forms to you feet
Scraping the bottom: Again, so you won't slip (the material on the bottom of pointe shoes can be very slippery on certain floors)
Banging the shoe on the floor: gets the shoe a little "loose" (breaks it in)
Bending the shoe in the door: helps bend/break in the shank

I hope this helps!

"build a jacuuuuuuzi, and we will come, ok!?" ~Pepe the King Prawn

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] KAnnD86 17 years ago

This might be a stupid question, but why do you have to do all that to your shoes? Shouldn't they come "broken in" already. If they're too stiff or slippery or loud or whatever, why don't the shoe-makers make them more wearable to begin with. I know all shoes have to be broken in to some extent, but breaking in ballet slippers (pointe shoes?) seems really extreme.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

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[–] yana_j_76 17 years ago

Breaking in your pointe shoes is essential. How much is a matter of your preference, and what you're using them for (class or performance). Shoemakers make them the way they do because, as another user said, each dancer's feet are different. (Some dancers even buy two sizes of shoes because one foot is bigger than the other.) Pointe shoes have to be very tight because it is very dangerous to dance on shoes that are too loose - they don't give your foot enough support to be standing on your toes. Plus, your foot moves down inside the shoe when you go up on pointe, so you don't want all that loose fabric hanging off your heel.

Basically, exessive breaking in does shorten the life of the shoe, but some people like softer shoes than others. I always preferred a harder box with a softer shank, but did have to whack the bottom of the box to keep the noise level down a bit. Of course, you shouldn't have to do too much of that - too much noise is an indication of poor technique in the way you land on your shoe. Rolling through your toes helps with the noise considerably.

Best thing you can do to break in your shoes is to wear them around BEFORE you need to wear them in class. Also, break the sides of the box (if you like that) after class, when the shoes are softer. Always fold your shoes up nicely and give 'em a good bend before you put them away.

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[–] elaine-white 14 years ago

Thanks for explaining this - best explanation I've seen for a layperson like me! :) I always wondered the same thing about why breaking in was needed.

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[–] MinnieBegosh 17 years ago

I loved that scene with the dancers adjusting their shoes! It's one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

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[–] saidswift 17 years ago

hehe pointe shoes being scary. yeh they are at first.
then you get used to them and there alright. lol at least they cant potentially cut your fingers off! (ehem, ice skates...lol)

OMG it's Captain Jack Sparrow eeeee

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[–] dance_love 17 years ago

I love that scene too! One of my friends watching it with me one day was like 'What are they doing to their shoes????? Isn't that bad?'

Center Stage is one of my favorite movies :]

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[–] muzikgurl 17 years ago

LOL. That reminds me of the first time I saw that part of the movie. I knew what they were doing essentially but I couldn't help thinking they get these beautiful $65 or more satin shoes and then they destroy them. I know they aren't really destroying them, but they are bending them, breaking parts of then, burning them, and getting them wet. It's crazy:)

I'm not a dancer, but I wish I was and I have a fascination with pointe shoes so kudos to all those who are dancers. I love ballet!

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[–] ilovematthewmcconaughey 17 years ago

LOL. That reminds me of the first time I saw that part of the movie. I knew what they were doing essentially but I couldn't help thinking they get these beautiful $65 or more satin shoes and then they destroy them. I know they aren't really destroying them, but they are bending them, breaking parts of then, burning them, and getting them wet. It's crazy:)

They were not destroying them, the pointe shoes are only beautiful when they are broken in and mold to your feet...

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[–] muzikgurl 17 years ago

They look pretty beautiful to me when they are just sitting there and haven't even been touched yet. I also said I know they aren't really destroying them. That's just what it looks like.

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[–] Gooiegoo99 17 years ago

i got my first pair of pointe shoes on tuesday. i have been dancing since super young. and i didnt break them in yet. i bent them and burnt them, but thats it. on the first day i already started to get callasses(i know ispelt that wrong) and bunions. once my teachers gave me some things i could do to them they felt a million times better.

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[–] takiko-1 17 years ago

LOL. That reminds me of the first time I saw that part of the movie. I knew what they were doing essentially but I couldn't help thinking they get these beautiful $65 or more satin shoes and then they destroy them. I know they aren't really destroying them, but they are bending them, breaking parts of then, burning them, and getting them wet. It's crazy:)

They were not destroying them, the pointe shoes are only beautiful when they are broken in and mold to your feet...

Well, when they break them in or "wreck" them rather, it seems like they are shortening the life of the shoes. Obviously, having new shoes and then that they interrupt any progress attempted due to not breaking them in to extend their life is bad in the end. I wonder if thesmackprincess' method doesn't have them get wore out as fast. I wonder how long the shoes last after they are worn in.

But it is expensive to probably practice or make a job/career of ballet, so I can understand why old worn shoes are sold. Taken, I don't know how much they sell for. It seems more personal than an autograph and I heard this really early Russian ballerina retired and then several fans purchased her shoes, cut them up and ate them with sauce. Well, this is what I heard from the anime Princess Tutu if that can count as a reliable source. I recommend it if you're looking for more ballet stuff to watch.

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[–] LilRed_RoRo 17 years ago

I heard this really early Russian ballerina retired and then several fans purchased her shoes, cut them up and ate them with sauce.

!!

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[–] yerwhatever 17 years ago

"I heard this really early Russian ballerina retired and then several fans purchased her shoes, cut them up and ate them with sauce"

now that is what i call extreme fanaticism. eww.

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[–] flamingo1706 17 years ago

Pointe shoes are expensive, they are very hard to fit properly and a lead dancer can ruin up to three - four pair of shoes in a single performance of a full length ballet.

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[–] nzld06 17 years ago

If you don't break them in, and you dance in them... it hurts like a beast, they look horrible, and they usually end up breaking faster. You cannot even imagine the pain of dancing in new shoes. Ever had blisters on the bottoms of your toes? They look awful too... most of you will only see pointe shoes when they are all nice and bendy and conformed to the dancers arch and all that jazz. Before that, the shanks are as stiff as a board and are difficult to dance in.

To the poster that asked why the shoe makers don't just break them in for you, it's because every dancer's foot is different. Some of us darn the tips for extra grip, some glue on suede, some rip off the satin... then you think about the shank (or the insole, but very hard). You can buy all types of hardness in regards to shanks. Some people like them extra hard because they have stronger feet and therefore break the shoes in faster.

The basic thing about it is that pointe shoes are made of paper and glue essentially, which breaks down with heat and moisture (namely sweat). To break in shoes and make them conform to your feet so they are comfortable and danceable, you pretty much have to wear them. Doing this stuff to them just speeds up the process.

So yeah, basically every single different dancer that you meet will do different stuff to her pointe shoes.

Mostly though, it's really not advised to do the things to them like in Centre Stage until you know exactly how you like your pointe shoes and you have been dancing for a long time, because, unless done properly you can really damage the shoes and there goes $80 or $90 down the plug.

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[–] rpgdancer 12 years ago

i disagree with your first statement. i love dancing in new shoes. i actually jet glue my boxes when they get too soft to make them feel new again. the only breaking in i do is wear them to bed and give them a bend in the arch after each class.

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[–] gossip-girl-x 17 years ago

"Pointe shoes are expensive, they are very hard to fit properly and a lead dancer can ruin up to three - four pair of shoes in a single performance of a full length ballet. "

True. Darcy Bussell has hers basically mass produced, she has like 5 pairs for one night. x

You know you love me--x

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[–] laurichia_13 17 years ago

you see they have to stand on their tip toes so the makes it flat and not pointed

i love my underrated actressess such as ZOE SALDANA don't get it twisted

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[–] short_dancer3 17 years ago

they're basically beating up their Pointe shoes to make them more comfortable. but i don't really recommend it because it will basically soften them up. the softer Pointe shoes get the less longer they'll last. i just squeeze the box of the shoe and it softens them up just fine enough.

Dance is my life. Period.

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[–] laurichia_13 17 years ago

i feel you on that one

i love my underrated actressess such as ZOE SALDANA don't get it twisted

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[–] Regina_Giddens 17 years ago

You have to break them in before you wear them though! Dancing in non broken in shoes is super-painful! At least for me.

A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent

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[–] laurichia_13 17 years ago

me too

i love my underrated actressess such as ZOE SALDANA don't get it twisted

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[–] dancin92-1 17 years ago

I've been on pointe for almost 5 years and I've never had to do any of that to my shoes... I just put them on, do a pointe class/warmup and I'm good to go... it doesn't really hurt; it's just uncomfortable for about 20 min, but it's not intolerable...

I'm in Grishko 2007 Pro medium shanks and they work just fine for me... I'm on pointe about 15 hours a week (more during tech/performance weeks) and I can make a pair last for 2 or 3 weeks...

I've always thought that if you had to do all that to your shoe before you dance in them that you are either in the wrong kind of shoe for your foot, or that your feet simply aren't strong enough for that particular shank/box...

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[–] sunnsky 16 years ago

It really depends on the shoe as to how you break them in. I have Freed Studios and so I don't do anything to the box, because they soften up so easily. but I do a lot of relevees in a new pair before wearing them in class to soften the shank.

""Cutting the top of the toe off"- Not necessarily so you don't slip...thats what rosen is for. You cut the satin off the toe of practice pointe shoes so you break them down faster."
Using rosen is the quickest way to destroy Marley (sp?) floor and the studios they used for the filming have Marley flooring, so they did rip off the silk on the tips to guarantee that their pointes won't slip (especially once the silk begins to fray).

"I wanna, I gotta be adored."

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[–] Movie_Maven6 17 years ago

In reference to the poster earlier who said she traded in her pointe shoes for figure skates...I did too, and had to break my skates in in a similar manner. Either way, the equipment is expensive and to get a good, comfortable fit, you have to basically wreck them. At least now (and let me date myself) figure skates are heat moldable which makes it easier to fit.

"HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!"

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[–] rack_focus 14 years ago

Just in case any of you guys still come here 2 years later:

I understood that they were breaking them in, and it's great to read exactly why.

My question is they start to look pretty grungy, so do they clean them for performances, or is just understood that the shoes are going to be a bit grungy?

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[–] morticia021358-1 14 years ago

The teachers and other advanced students kept stating that Jody had bad feet and a bad turn out. Can any of you dancers out there explain exactly what that means? The reason I ask is because the reference shots showing Jody's feet and lower body are always followed by a quick cut edit to her upper body and face, which always had a pained look as she's repeatedly implored to "work with" the instructor who is bending her like a Gumby doll, leading me to believe two different dancers were being filmed. These two flaws didn't seem to matter much to Cooper when he cast her in his ballet; perhaps her prior training was sufficient for his purposes, because her final dance sequences were just fabulous. And if Amanda Schull's professional dance career is any indication, no one has any issues with her feet or turn out.

BTW, that final dance sequence is my favorite part.

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[–] Missea 14 years ago

Having a bad turn out means that her foot is . . . . Huh, this is hard to discribe without visual aides. OK - stretch your leg out in front of you and point your toes. Most people who are not dancers will have the top of their foot up. Or worse, the outside of your foot up. That is super bad - you may hear it referred to as "sickled" foot. A dancer's foot - for a nice turn out - if that leg is extended, the inside of his/her heel should be facing the up and her/his toes slightly touching the ground.

This is a VERY general explaination. You should Google some images.

For most people who are not part of the dance community - it would be hard for them to find many flaws with the dancer's performances in this movie.

I think the "bad feet" comment was because Jodi wasn't getting over her box. She wasn't on her toe as she should be and/or her arch wasn't so great.
This is a good photo of what it means to be over your box:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/theatre/nylind_ballet460.jpg

-Missea
"Ohhhh, I can't not look at it . . . ."

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[–] morticia021358-1 14 years ago

Missea!!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for responding! I couldn't take ballet; I was too old to train to go on pointe when I became interested in formal lessons, and I was a bit too curvy and top heavy, which threw off my center of gravity. I did, however, tap dance in my youth, so I have a basic idea and understanding of body movement and positioning. I did as you suggested and pointed my toes, and as it happens, I actually have an "ok" turn out, and my arches are good. My understanding of the "bad feet" assessment was a bit on the same line as your "bad arch" comment; it stands to reason that if your feet are flat or nearly flat, they won't be strong enough to support you when you attempt to go on pointe. I will check out the site you listed, though; I'd like to actually see what you mean by being "over your box".

I can't dance anymore; blew out my Achilles' tendon 5 years ago, but I'm not ashamed to state that I dance vicariously through my nieces and nephews, helping purchase shoes and costumes, going to recitals and competitions, watching any and every dance movie ever shot, the good, the bad and the ugly, from "The Red Shoes" to "Step Up 2: The Streets" (not a big hip hop fan). I hope you still find dancing enjoyable. Thanks again for the dance lesson.

Good friends help you move; true friends help you move the body

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[–] morticia021358-1 14 years ago

Missea-

Ok, I checked the site you provided, and while I find the photo aesthetically pleasing, perhaps you can clear this up for me, as well:

When you say "box", are you referring to the positioning of the feet directly aligned under the hips and bordered by the shoulders? I am picturing an imaginary string being pulled up from the top of one's head to achieve this alignment. If that is the case for the first set of feet, then the next two sets are viewed as "over the box".

Did I get it right?

Good friends help you move; true friends help you move the body

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[–] morticia021358-1 14 years ago

Missea

Okay, I've read the other posts and noticed comments were made regarding manipulating new ballet slippers to break them in so they are more comfortable to work in, and I see the term "box" appears to refer to rigid material in the toe of the slipper. Therefore, being "over the box" has to reflect what the image in the link you gave shows, those 2 sets of feet behind the first set. If that's still wrong, then please tell what the answer is!

Good friends help you move; true friends help you move the body

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[–] IheartCali5882 14 years ago

Yes the box of the pointe shoe refers to the wooden box enclosing the toes and upper part of the foot.

"Over the box" simply means that the foot fully articulates so that the entire surface area of the tip of the shoe is fully planted on the floor. The picture that Missea provides shows ALL 3 dancers over the box.

Here is a pic of someone who is definitely NOT "over the box"

http://www.ucandancenc.com/BTS.jpg

See the difference? Her foot is not fully arched so as to place the toe of the shoe fully on the floor. Terrible form.

If the dancer has weak feet or the shanks are too strong for her arch/strength, then she might have a hard time getting all the way over.

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[–] morticia021358-1 14 years ago

Thank you a million times over, IheartCali5885, you have provided the final piece of the puzzle for me! I will revisit all my favorite ballet movies with this new information; looking forward to being a better evaluator!

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for

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[–] LittleMissLee 14 years ago

They're breaking them in. :)

_______
Yes, that's me...Little miss Lee...

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[–] dawn_dance 10 years ago

It takes a lot to breK in pointe shoes. For example when baseball players need to break in a new MIT, they have lots of good tricks and easy ways to help the process along. In my experience as a dancer for going on 17 yrs now that the worse your shoes look the better. If that makes any sense. The whole point is to have your shoes form fit to you and almost feel like they are part of you. So example scuffing up the bottome helps with traction and a slippery floor, wetting them helps them stretch and form. I know this sounds weird but I remember when I was younger me and some of my fellow dancers run up and down the back ally of our studio with our pointe shoes on and just beat the crap out of or shoes dragging them on the toe and scuffing them as hard as we could. Lol. They're was this one girl that would actually dlm her shoes repeatedly in her parents car door!! She wasent wearing them of course but that goes to show you the extreme! ?????

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[–] liscarkat (16697) 4 months ago

The pointe shoes female ballet dancers use are very stiff and hard when they're new, and they're not differentiated left and right. Almost all women break in the new shoes by beating on them, bending them, slitting them, and cutting or ripping parts off before wearing them in for their right and left feet. They also have to hand-sew the ribbons and elastics on, and some women darn the toes with thick thread. After all that work, a pair of pointe shoes might only be good for a handful of classes or performances before they break down or wear through and are no good anymore.

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