MovieChat Forums > Angel (1999) Discussion > I enjoyed Season 4 the most...

I enjoyed Season 4 the most...


I heard that a lot of people thought that Season 4 was the weakest... But for me it was the best... Season 3 and Season 4 had more focus than Season 5... Season 5 had many filler episodes that took you away from the main plot. Not saying they were bad episodes... I really enjoyed those... Season 4 had more focus and good 2-3 episode arc stories... The story arc of bringing back Angelus was the best...

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[deleted]

Jasmine wanted world peace and that isn't what a big bad should want. The way it should've been handled was by having Jasmine wanting world domination and to be a ruler.


That's a cliche. Jasmine brought a different depth to the apocalypse. Can world peace be the greater evil? They didn't want to do the typical bad guy wants destruction. Plus, Jasmine did want world domination. She just didn't want to dominate a world that was destroyed.

They were so afraid of ruining Angel's image they didn't let him be truely evil.


Agreed.

Let's be bad guys.

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It was actually my favourite, for the inspired hunting Angelus arc alone.

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Season 4 has a whole host of problems but you can't deny some of the awesome things sprinkled throughout.

Angelus and Faith are highlights of the series in general.

Wesley, why can't I stay?

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There's definitely awesome stuff. I think Faith's arc was a bit more satisfying than her turn on Buffy that same year, and Spin the Bottle is just amazing television.

It was great fun to watch it that year, but it definitely suffers in the rewatch. And no matter how you slice it, Evil Cordy just always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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I haven't re watched Angel in a while. But every time I do a re watch, I always look forward to season 4. It's so serialised and cinematic. Each episode is like a mini movie. And it gets more and more exciting with each episode

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Season 4 has things I like, but so many things I don't.

Things I don't like:

Conner. I really liked Season 3 Conner. I thought he was a multifaceted and interesting character. I was engaged when he was on screen. He seemed to be an intelligent and resourceful kid. Then season 4 came and he became one note--hate hate hate--all the time. Hate Angel, Hate Listening, Hate Magic. I think Vincent is a great actor and he was doing the best with what was given to him. But that was just painful. And season 4 Conner was so stupid all the damn time and easily manipulated. It wasn't until season 5 that I could actually really enjoy the character again. And the reflection he was of Angel: A person given a second chance at redemption that he probably didn't deserve.

Cordy. I was never that big a fan of Cordelia on Angel. I really liked her on Buffy. I liked her all the way up until the Season 1 finale on Angel. Then she was supposed to be in pain from the overload visions and then have growth and....Charisma's acting just rang false to me. And I never really connected with the character on screen again. On paper I did. On paper her growth was great. But never got that with her performance. So when it came to season 4 and she was called upon to act out another shift in her character, it was just painful to watch. She couldn't rise to the challenge like Alexis did with Wes. Or Amy did with Illyria. Or how J did with Lawyer Gunn. I do blame it on Cordy getting pregnant during season 4 and taking so long to tell the writers so they had to rebreak the season story. Cause you can see glimpse of a much better storyarc for Cordy in the early part of Season 4. With her ability to fight so well without her memorize. Something that wold have resonated so much more with Angel training her to fight in season 3. He was training her to fight. But it wasn't him that turned evil. It was her. That would have been good. But that got blown to hell. Then on top of the fact that I though the show worked better with hole Cordy's absence brought to the gang than her actual presence (something that I started to notice in season 3 when Charisma left to get married)....well Evil Cordy was a snooze fest of B-acting. It wasn't until her return in season 5 that I actually liked the character again. Charisma was superb. It was the best acting she'd ever done on the show. And she retroactively made me enjoy her character's journey. Which is another reason season 5 is one of my favorite seasons. It made me love so many things season 4 made me disinterested in.

Angelus. They didn't let Angelus be evil. They brought him back and basically neutered him in the framework of the show. I liked him in the cage. But once he came out, it was pretty ham-fisted. B-acting again. Personally, I never found Angelus all that interesting. He's basically just a bully. Angel is far more interesting that Angelus, and Angelus was only interesting in season 2 of Buffy because of Angel's personal connection to the gang. If it wasn't for those ties to the gang that Angelus could pervert and abuse, he would be just been some random vamp that Buffy would have dusted pretty quickly. So when they take away him actually obsessively hurting and hunting his friends, they just made him a flat bully. And I just wanted Angel back. He's far more complicated.

The Beast. It was just a big dumb rock. He was like Adam in season 4 of Buffy. A big tough thing that was boring as hell.

Black and White. Evil Cordy, Angelus, and The Beast = Don't belong on a morally grey show as Angel. They're more Buffy like Big Bads. They're too pure Evil to be interesting. Angel has antagonists like Holtz, Lilah, Darla, Lindsey, Holand, Justine, Jasmine, and even Illyria. Characters that challenge the characters' and the audience's world view of whether these people are purely evil, irredeemable, or unjustified in their actions. It's why Faith worked so well on Buffy. Angel as a show wasn't black and white. It was always about the grey.

Gunn. For the majority of season 4 Gunn was just wasted being angry at Wes. Even when Angel had moved on. Gunn wouldn't pass on a chance to put Wes down. It wasn't until near the end of the season that Gunn started to show more layers again. I feel they just didn't know what to do with his character anymore in season 4. It wasn't until season 5 again that he got something with true narrative weight.

What I did like:


Wes. I fvcking love Wes. He saved that entire season for me. The development of his character just boggles my mind to this day. How can anything be so perfect? I'm all about the grey and Wes brought it. You're aces, Wes! I have to stop here before I fanboy all over the place. (I love you, Wesley!!)

Lilah. I loved Lilah. And her relationship with Wes was amazing throughout season 4. It was far less saccharine than Gunn/Fred, Wes/Fred, Cordy/Angel, or Evil!Cordy/Conner. Wes/Lilah was completely engaging and unexpected. It's one of those tv moments that you know was never planned, but just naturally developed. It was just so beautifully grey and complicated. And so was she. I always loved the moments where her hardass mask slipped and you saw the vulnerable woman peak through. But then that mask just slid back on. Eve couldn't old a candle to Lilah. She was always my favorite WR&H employee..well until the gang joined the firm.

Faith. Angelus, Evil!Cordy and the Beast was stinking up the place. Faith's return was a breath of fresh air. She had more chemistry with Conner than Cordy did. Hell she worked great with everyone. And seeing the Dark Slayer and Rogue Watcher team up was worth the wait. They'd both grown so much from their Sunnydale days. When I watch Season 4 I always look forward to her episodes.

Jasmine. I like Jasmine. At first I didn't, I thought it was too much of a left turn initially. And I didn't like the recon of her manipulating everything from the previous seasons. (And I still don't, but I've just fanwanked it and say Skip didn't know what the hell he was talking about/lying his ass off.) I wasn't until I rewatched the series a few times that I really appreciated her. Gina is just a far better actress than Charisma. I wish she'd been the main antagonist for the show from the start. And Jasmine is the grey antagonist that the series deserved. I like that stopping her is effectively stopping world peace. That she didn't want to destroy, but improve. Even if the way she wanted to improve the world wasn't the way many would pick, it was sincere. And I liked that after he defeated her, Angel tried to get her to join them. Because he's all about those second chances (as long as that person isn't Lindsay.)

Gwen. I know she's a Rogue-Faith-hybrid-ripoff and I don't care! I love Gwen. Every time she was on screen I was entertained. And I wish they had a chance to continue her relationship with Gunn. His one ep with her was far more interesting almost two seasons of him and Fred.

Over-Arcing episodes. Like Season 3 I like that the narrative flows from one episode to the next. I think being arc heavy is one of the best things about Angel and what makes it so different than Buffy. I think having to go back to stand alone episodes hurt the show at the beginning of Season 5 (Until the writers got the hang of it again and managed to sneak in an arc anyway. *beep* you, WB!)

The Magic Bullet. I'm a big fan of Amy Acker. I thinks she's the second best actor on the show, only behind Alexis. But I'll freely admit that Fred isn't a very well handled character from a written standpoint. She's more often than not written as an object of desire for the boys. It's almost purely because of Amy that her character comes off so multifaceted. That's why I love Magic Bullet, because it's one of the few times Fred gets to be more than a love interest. It's like Pylea all over again for her. All the cows are serving the masters and she's on her own hiding from everything. She is the hero of the day. It's one of the few moments in the series that I think fully resonate with her character creation. Fred as a character shined in that episode. And it showed the darker edge the character rarely gets to showcase.

Spin the Bottle.
I love this episode. Seeing everyone reverting back to their younger days was great. It showcased just how amazing the fact that all these conflicting characters with vastly different background managed to come together as a unlikely yet effective team.

Deep Down and Home.
I think they're the most perfect bookends a season of Angel ever had. They were taunt and engaging throughout. While I think City Of (season 1) is the best opening and Not Fade Away (season 5) is the best finale, for a season that manages to open AND close the best: I go with season 4. It's only the stuff in the middle that I have a problem with.

Willow.
Unlike season 7 on Buffy, I loved Willow got to be Willow on Angel season 4. Her grey character works better on Angel than on Buffy. Even though they didn't get too into her dark turn, I think she wold have worked well on the show as a regular. And she would have been around people that could relate to her journey and mistakes far better the Scoobies.



So those are my dislikes and likes. That I can remember right now at least. I think Angel as a show succeeds far more than it fails. But still, Season 4 is a big hiccup for me. It has a lot of things I enjoy but, so many thing I just don't. And the things I don't like seem to spread over more episodes than the things I do.

Clever things make people feel stupid and unexpected things make them feel scared

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It was just a big dumb rock
That was the point. His lameness was great comic relief. They even capitalized on it by having Angelus insult the Beast by calling him Pet Rock, Overgrown Slag Heap, etc.

What are words for when no one listens anymore

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I agree. I’ve seen all the Buffy seasons and the first 4 Angel seasons and I’d say Season 4 Angel is overall the best season of both shows, though I still need to see Angel season 5.

Having said that I should say that picking a “best” season of Angel or Buffy doesn’t mean much because all of the seasons of both shows contained mostly great episodes with just the occasional dud. I Just think season 4 Angel had the best balance of great individual episodes and overall story arc.

What are words for when no one listens anymore

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I'd personally call it the weakest.

5
2
3
1
4

Connor ruined it for me. I hated the character so much. HATE. By far my least fave character of the Buffyverse and probably my least fave character of any TV show or film I have ever watched in my entire life.

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[deleted]

Yeah I was happy when Angel finally gave him peace
I just started season 5. While it is nice to not hear Connor's mouth it's pretty hypocritical of Angel to take out Jasmine because her peace/love spell violated people's free will then turn around and do something similar by removing everyone's memory of Connor and Connor's memory of himself.

What are words for when no one listens anymore

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[deleted]

You will see Connor a couple more times in S-5, he is great!


"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

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Wasn't she also devouring humans on a regular basis?


If the world chooses to become my enemy, I will fight like I always have

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The only good part of season 4 was the beast and lyla. Connor was horrible, Cordelia was horrible. Season 5 was amazing, and it had spike.

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The only good part of season 4 was the beast and lyla.


I'd have to add Faith, Wes, and Willow to that list.

Seize the moment, 'cause tomorrow you might be dead.

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Yes. Add that and I completely agree with you but the Beast was kinda disappointing at the end and I knew Angelus would kill him but I was hoping to see a longer fight scene between the two of them.

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Make Same Sex Marriages Legal In Australia 'cause we deserve to have the same rights as everybody else and shouldn't be controlled by backwards people with outdated views.

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I think the Beast should've stayed on. Cordy didn't get involved with Conner, Jasmine only possessed her body and had the end of days occurring with her as the savior. The training Cordy took with a sword would fight against Angel and ends with the higher power leaving her body leaving her in a coma.

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I would have liked to seen Fred meet Doyle and possibly hook up with him because i think their goofy personalities would click. Wes and Fred was nice and all but I liked him better with Liliah and I liked Gun with Gwen.

Hated Conner but I wouldn't kill him off or anything I'd have just swapped him over to the Buffy show in exchange for making Faith a more permanent character on Angel because to me she fit better there. Conner seems like he'd have had more chemistry over on the Buffy side. Maybe something could have sparked with him and Dawn.

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