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All the Plot Questions Answered -- except one

posted 20 years ago by overpaid
87 replies | jump to latest

Since no one in the below threads seems to have pulled it all together, here -- based on repeated viewings of the unrated DVD -- is what happened:

- Suzie (Neve Campbell), a poor, underachieving genius, is pissed off at her High School teacher Mr. Lombardo (Matt Dillon) for ignoring her calls when she got busted and for sleeping with another student. She is also pissed off at a corrupt Detective (Kevin Bacon) for killing her friend Davy. She is also pissed off at fellow student (and fellow bi-sexual) Kelly Van Ryan for being rich, for fsleeping with Mr. Lombardo, and for looking like Denise Richards. Suzie comes up with an extremely devious and manipulative scheme which will allow her to get revenge on those she is pissed off at and leave her rich, as well as legally dead so no one will be looking for her.

Suzie is the ONLY one who is really in on every aspect of the scheme (except for the Lawyer - see below). All the others (Lombardo, Kelly, the Detective) only THINK they are.

- Suzie blackmails Lombardo in order to get the ball rolling. As far as Lombardo is concerned, he and Suzie are plotting to use Kelly Van Ryan to scam Kelly's mother out of millions, fake Suzie's death, use the Detective to frame Kelly for "killing" Suzie, get rid of the Detective, then run off together with the money.

- Kelly is brought into the scheme by Lombardo. As far as Kelly is concerned, she and Lombardo are plotting to use Suzie to scam Kelly's mother out of millions of dollars, after which they will kill Suzie then run off with the money.

- In order to frame Kelly, Suzie gets Lombardo to enlist the Detective (Kevin Bacon). As far as Bacon's character is concerned, he and Lombardo are planning to use Suzie and Kelly to scam Kelly's mom, then kill Suzie, frame Kelly, and split the money between the two of them.

- The Detective ends up killing Kelly instead of framing her because he thinks that leaves fewer loose ends, but in the end that doesn't really change anything in Suzie's grand scheme -- which was that she (Suzie) end up with all the money and no one looking for her.

If you re-watch the movie with the above in mind, you'll see that it all tracks. No holes at all -- everyone at all times acts consistently with what they believe is going on and what they think the other characters believe is going on. It's actually a quite impressive piece of plot-craft.

The ONLY plot point which doesn't quite track for me is the Lawyer (Bill Murray). He was Suzie's accomplice from the beginning, but Lombardo obviously doesn't know this, even though Lombardo had to somehow be steered to the Lawyer by Suzie in the first place. And at the end, the Lawyer tells Suzie he is taking his "usual fee". Hard to believe they've done this before.

Anyway, there you have it. Comments welcome.

[–] Devans00 18 years ago

My take on two questions unanswered below:

1) If Ruby wasn't Suzie's real grandmother, who was she?

If Suzie was the trick baby of one of Ruby's whores, she may have been bringing up Suzie until she could turn tricks on her own. Or maybe Ruby, the madam, had a tender spot in her heart for raising the motherless and fatherless child.

2) Sandra Van Ryan and Suzie half-sisters?

Suzie's mother, the swamp motel whore, would not have been too picky who was paying the bill when she turned tricks. So it's not THAT weird that she'd have sex with a man way older than she. (Maybe Sandra Van Ryan's father even got off on the fact he was having sex with a girl the same age as his daughter?) Sandra and Suzie had the same father but different mothers. That makes them half sisters. That makes Kelly, Suzie's neice.

Hope that makes sense.

On another topic, I don't think the Lawyer had to have been on Suzie's plan from the start. He could have just got in on it after the trial, when Suzie admited they lied about the rape.

Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed. --Law of Probable Dispersal

[–] scandalous_shenanigans 18 years ago

In planning the whole sheme to get the money from Sandra Van Ryan, they may have discussed which lawyer to choose. They may have even told him about the plot. The whole scene with him wearing the neck brace with the insurance dealer in his first scene suggests some sense that he is corrupt. Suzie pays him off in the end, probably for his silence, and is free.

[–] Devans00 18 years ago

If I was the lawyer, I'd be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life. No matter how much money she gave him for services rendered.

Suzie's definitely one crooked wench.

Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

[–] tincel1372 15 years ago

I'm sorry for asking this, perhaps it is because my lack of sleep forbids my brain to work right, but I still do not get why Kelly would be Suzie's niece. I understand that they are half-sisters, but how would that make Kelly Suzie's niece??

[–] TomPegliczek 15 years ago

No, Suzie and Kellys mother are half sisters.

[–] schmidtkenn11 12 years ago

The swamp whore (Suzie's mother) could NOT have been "a girl the same age as his daughter." That would mean Suzie would have been in high school when she was BORN, because Kelly and Suzie were attending the same high school, so they were roughly the same age. Duh!

[–] westwoodfisher 18 years ago

Here is one scene that just doesnt' make any sense...

When Lombardo "kills" Suzie on the beach with the wine bottle, he and Kelly load a body into the back of her SUV.

They wrap it in plastic, so there is no way it could be Suzie because she couldn't breath in the plastic. So this means it was another body? Who? And where did they get it? And how could Kelly not notice that it wasn't Suzie?

[–] effmeimfamous 18 years ago

all i can say is bloody good question!!

[–] schmidtkenn11 12 years ago

It WAS Suzie. (You can see her face when they put her in the Rover, and it's clearly her.) It would not be that hard for her to hold her breath for the short time it took to get her in the car. (Magicians do it all the time in the Water Torture Cell illusion.) And anyway, just because it's plastic, doesn't mean it's airtight; it's not a giant zip-lock baggie, for Christ's sake! It's just a fu*&ing piece of plastic! LOL

[–] Shemarz7772 18 years ago

Okay, I have a question. Why does Ray Duquette's partner ask Suzie's family about Ray? Did she suspect something was up with Duquette all along or did she see/hear something to make her think he could be in on the whole scam? That part I never got. I felt like her question came out of the blue considering she was working with him.

And I agree, the entire plot was genius. I think this movie's underrated, probably due to some trashy scenes.

[–] NewCliches 18 years ago

I think she thought that Ray had shot a suspiciosly large number of people by mistake.

[–] scandalous_shenanigans 18 years ago

I also think that every time they go to Suzie's place, she realizes that there is some history, and hostility, between Duquette and Suzie's family. In court, Suzie talks about being screwed over by Ray, but doesn't elaborate. Also during the movie, Ray was so adament about what was going on and would not consider any other possibilites. I think all of this just made so many questions, she had to go to the source and find out for herself.

[–] mariahscary 16 years ago

And the fact that when Ray and his partner first go to question Suzie, he asks where she is and the grandmother says that he should know. That clearly shows the two have history.

[–] linoge2004 18 years ago

- In order to frame Kelly, Suzie gets Lombardo to enlist the Detective (Kevin Bacon). As far as Bacon's character is concerned, he and Lombardo are planning to use Suzie and Kelly to scam Kelly's mom, then kill Suzie, frame Kelly, and split the money between the two of them.

I don't understand how injururing of Kelly will frame her?

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Something_new90 18 years ago

No, Kelly's grandfather slept with a whore who was Suzie's mother. But since she died, Ruby took care of Suzie. It wasnt so much that they were angry at Ray for killing Kelly, they were gonna kill him all along, they were just kinda, i guess you could say trash talking before killing him. Also Lombardo and Kelly had an affair, so there was a soft spot he had for her. The partner got suspicious because the guy who was judging with Ray said this is the second time. She also noticed the hostitlity between Suzie and Ray. Also I see it as broken into 4 parts.

1. what the whole world sees, a guidance counselor being scammed by two students.

2. Then we get deeper with a rich family getting scammed by 3 people. Kelly thinks this is whats going on. And that they killed Suzie cause she could rat them out.

3. Then we get to what ray thinks which is that its him and Lombardo scamming everyone.

4. Finally we find out its Lombardo and Suzie, who have had this whole thing planned out and they would just have fun in the Carribean. However Suzie double crosses Lombardo and takes the money for herself.

So its kinda like steps of power. Suzie is at the top and knows whats gonna happen, below her is Lombardo, below him is Ray, and below him is Kelly, and at the bottom is the general public.

As for the Lawyer I dont wanna say corrupt, cause that usually means something in a bad way. This movie goes beyond good vs bad. Its about how someone f-cked everyone else over and it applauds the skillful way they did. I think the lawyer was used so Suzie can be sure the money gets to her and isnt immediately given to Dillion where he can lock it up. The line about Usual fee is again criminals joking at thier nasty deeds. He wasnt being serious. And i could tell by thier relationship with eachother there was no blackmail going on. They were friendly.

[–] lukemcgook 18 years ago

Anyone notice that, if "old man Van Ryan" is Sandra's pop, Sandra is using her maiden name and Kelly is using her mom's name. Up to that point, we just assume Kelly's suicide father was married to Sandra and so the owner of the Van Ryan name. It's the small things that irritate. Overall, much tighter and tidier than most screenplays.

[–] djsnafu23 16 years ago

Thats all good but Lombarod wouldnt have agreed to get a cop in for no reason.

Kelly's share would just go to him, so no financial benefit.
I'm really not convinced how he would frame Suzie and have that stand in court.

Finally- Suzie's body not being found, and with everyone else dead, suspicions on her would be cast soon...
myspace.com/bankrupteuropeans

Coz lifes too short to listen to Madlib

[–] GrtOne41 16 years ago

That is true djsnafu about Suzy's body not being found. That may arise suspicions however by the time that happens and everyone else is gone long enough to throw possibly suspicion back on Suzy, she's long gone.

Plus, even by the end of the movie she's changed her entire appearance (blonde hair, missing tooth she pulled out replaced, cleaned up). Even if someone wanted to find Suzy, I don't think they ever would.

[–] Shorty53077 16 years ago

Finally- Suzie's body not being found, and with everyone else dead, suspicions on her would be cast soon...

why?? no one outside of the laywer knows sam is dead. as far as blue bay knows he left with his money and moved to the caribbean to live the dream life. no one would know he disappeared plus by then the lawyer had the briefcase with what i assume was the rest of the money so there are no bank accounts no track

but before Ray is killed Sam Says you realy should not had killed Kelly.
I fiqured that always ment that Suzie realy did like Kelly.

i think Suzie knew how corrupt ray was so she knew he wouldn't just frame her he would have killed her just like davy.

my only confusion about the movie is with Ray how forceful he was and always filming them and listening to their convos and following them. i know its to go with the whole plot to kill suzie and frame kelly to push them to make it look like out of fear of being busted over this kelly freaks, kills suzie to shut her up. my thoughts were what if the police start listening to Ray and do get more involved it could ruin the whole plan.

another thing is i wonder if suzie was instructing sam what to do the whole time. like she runs over to kelly's house claiming to be scared and freaked out. and sam says she left some insane voice mail on his machine. i wonder if in that voicemail she was acting to freak out(which makes no sense since she is running everything) or just telling him whats the next part of the plan

and on a side note, poor kelly, man she didn't stand a chance.

---------------
Hey Laser Lips Yo Momma Was A Snow Blower - Johnny 5

[–] angelayla 16 years ago

I think her freaking out was just another way to get Kelly to buy into the whole deal and be more agreeable to help get rid of her body after Sam kills her.

Also, Ray was acting like a psychopath, they were far beyond believing anything he had to say, especially since he was digging them farther into gaining a lawsuit by Sam. Whether or not another lawsuit for more cash for Sam was planned or not, that's where Ray was leading them, so they obviously weren't going to follow up on what he had to say, in order to avoid that. Plus he wasn't authorized to be on Kelly's property, filming no less. They can't use that as evidence.

Obviously the lawyer was in on the whole deal, and he played his role perfectly.

And Ray's partner would have asked about Ray, there were too many things Ray said around her to make her wonder. Also, don't forget what Ruby said. "You're not going to shoot her are ya? I don't believe she's armed." I think his partner knew he had a shady past from that before hearing everything else. I probably would have asked after he was fired and disappeared as well. After being told all about Suzie I think she figured out the plan, (except the after events when they all leave) however at that point it would have been too late to do anything about it.

(I'm watching the movie on tv right now actually :P)

[–] scarlett_belle 15 years ago

I think Van Ryan error got left in because it was cut completely until the extended version. "Old Man Van Ryan" would have had to be Sandra's husband's father for it to work, which would have made Suzy her half sister-in-law, not half sister.

The gap I still find involves Suzy and the pictures of Lombardo and Kelly. She confronts him with the photos of what he was doing the weekend she got busted and put away, which means she would not have been around to take them.

[–] isiscloud 12 years ago

[quote}The gap I still find involves Suzy and the pictures of Lombardo and Kelly. She confronts him with the photos of what he was doing the weekend she got busted and put away, which means she would not have been around to take them.[/quote]
Those could have been taken by Bowden, hoping to have some other type of blackmail action. Maybe Kelly's mom hired him to see who else Sam had been sleeping with and this just happening. When he saw it was Kelly, maybe he took them to Suzie. Then Suzie, seeing the possibilities that were much bigger than just a simple blackmail, came up with this plan.

It seems like Ray (Bacon) was in on this from the beginning or at least very early on - Suzie making Sam meet up with Ray in the bar, to get his partner to pursue the case when she thought it was a set up for real. It would have been easy to lure him with the money. He was already on the outs in the department and is sleazy so blackmailing a rich woman would be very attractive.

She could still be Sandra Van Ryan's half sister, but not by "Van Ryan," by Sandra's father.

[–] indigol 15 years ago

One of the plot holes for me was whose name was on that offshore account.

If it was "open" (not sure if there was such an account) then no problem but Ken Bowden mentions that the account is setup in Sam's name thus if he "working" for Susie it would have been open to her as well as without Sam knowing.

But we the viewer are not too sure about Ken's role beyond he used a neck brace during the trial as well as part of some insurance scam. The funny part in the movie was when he 'won' the case for Sam, he took off the neck brace kind of too fast.

.

[–] mermaid78 15 years ago

Was Ray in on it from the very beginning? If not, when was it that he was brought in 0n the plan?

Katrina

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] grinningpixie 15 years ago

I don't think they had done it before. I think he was probably her lawyer when she got into trouble before (I mean him being a sleazy lawyer and probably cheaper then some of the others Suzie would have to attain someone like her as a lawyer.) and he had his fee from that or however many times she might have gotten into trouble in the past. I really do think that is the link. He was probably the one that took the photos of Lombardo and Kelly while Suzie was sitting in jail. Just a guess.

[–] theotherjenn 14 years ago

I've read the script and it explains that Walter was the one who took the photos of Sam and Kelly. Walter is a pervert and Suzie seen these particular photos and jumped at the opportunity.

Sandra Van Ryan also explains Kellys father. "He didn't have to kill himself, Kelly. He could have gone out and gotten a job. Christ, he could've found another rich woman... He never had a problem tucking my friends when we were married."

And yes, Suzie is Sandra's half sister, Kellys aunt.

"" Across the bottom of the picture is the name -- "WILLIAM TECUMSEH
VAN RYAN." And beside that, in another hand -- "Dear old Dad."""

YEAH

[–] mcgill_j 14 years ago

soooooooooo.. Suzie made out with her.. neice? I don't know.. should I go.. ewwwwwww? or be disturbed that I get turned on when I watched them make out.. lol.

Seriously though? Man.. I am GLAD I ordered BOTH versions now.. at least I HOPE the rated version is Widescreen.. but wow.. that new twist ending is just pushing the whole thing a bit too far.. when I thought the movie as was.. was just fine and left well.. only one MINOR question.. and that would be how did Bowden come in.. and how extensive was his role..

as others have said.. I THINK he's probably the one who, unsuccessfully though, tried to defend Susie from her drug bust.. So they came to know each other.. and she knew of his.. moral flexibility...

the idea of Walter being a complete perv and taking the pictures was NEW though.. I have to hand them that.. but its another one of those.. "good grief.. was Davy NOT really dead and somehow rise from the grave and take part in this con job?" hahaha..

not really.. but this UNRATED version sounds a tad bit wacky.. might be a bit too much..

[–] moviestar26 14 years ago

What is the reason for davy not being dead ?. It sounds so b grade. I too had wished Bowden's role was larger and could have been involved more in the plot. His involvement in the unrated version did not go far than the court case scenario.

Is their an alternative ending in the unrated version ?. What is it ?.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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