MovieChat Forums > Pushing Tin (1999) Discussion > Air traffic control student's perspectiv...

Air traffic control student's perspective


The producers really did their homework here. I found very few ATC innacuaries about this movie (generally speaking). There was one scene where John Cusak said "nine" instead of "niner". Big deal. There was another scene where all the targets on one of the scopes had the same data block. Oops! :) And the only other inaccuracy I found was when Russell was working approach. He had the Jetlink increase speed to 230. If the aircraft were above 10,000 feet (which judging from the position on the scope seemed unlikely), it would have been ok. Altough, chances are that aircraft was below 10,000, in which case maximum speed for a jet aircraft is 210 (170 if within 20 miles of the airport... again a more likely scenerio). But other than those three errors, a lot of the ATC references were accurate, generally speaking. Phraseology used by the controllers was also dead on.

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What bugs me is that nobody bothered to look at a map. Greensboro (where one airline headquarters is) is in North Carolina--not South. Greenville is in South Carolina. I should know, I grew up there and fly into both on a regular basis.

Not to mention that any Southerner knows that cornpone is not moonshine--it is a type of cornbread. Falzone not knowing that is fine, since he is a Yankee, but the pilot should have known.

Geez, if they were that accurate on the ATC part, don't you think they could have gotten other details correct?

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Not to nitpick, but there is a Greenville, NC as well as a Greenville, SC. East Carolina University is in Greenville, NC.

http://www.visitgreenvillenc.com/

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Yes, I know there is a Greenville, NC (I grew up in NC and went to App State, one of ECU's rivals). But that wasn't the point. He said Greensboro, SC, which there isn't. (It is in NC. My mom grew up there). Between Greenville, NC and Greenville, SC, I believe the SC airport is bigger. So my point was if they were going for one of the "Green" cities, they were probably going for Greenville, SC.

And if you want to get really nitpicky, there is a Greenville in every state but two. Hawaii (I think) and I can't remember the other one. It was in the Mid-West, if memory serves.

Lloyd Dobler was simply the best part of who I could ever be. John Cusack

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I believe it's Hawaii and Arizona, if I'm not mistaken.

Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't care how crazy they are.

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I had to laugh when I read this, because I am a Kindermusik teacher in British Columbia, Canada and the headquarters of Kindermusik International is in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Anyway the movie is fiction so if they want to have a Greensboro in South Carolina, what's the big deal?

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well i'm from minnesota and i'm not aware of a greenville in my state. we got greenwood, greenwald, greenleaf, greenbush, we even have a gaylord...but no greenville.

i play doctor for 5 minutes flat...before i cut my heart open, and let the air out...

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I've been in the NY TRACON (N90) facility observing how they work and actually asked the TRACON manager how realistic "Pushing Tin" really is. He told me that there are days when controllers will speak that fast and I know from experience being a pilot from that airspace (25nm from EWR).

As for the rooom, no its not that big and no its not that loud. One big thing is...if it were really that loud...pilots would not be able to hear the controller at all because of all the background clutter. It would sound like a Tower Cab and that would not work well for 6 planes shooting the ILS for 22R or 4L as "The Zone" was doing during the movie. The one thing they did get right however is the intercom system which is just a phone at every other station that they call other controllers at. However, this system is being replaced by a new voice intercom system built into the radar unit. The old circular "scopes" are being phased out for new square computer screens that have all data information accessible on 1 or 2 screens.

Overall this movie was pretty accurate and is quite enjoyable considering the fact that...yes..people really do drive that fast in NYC! Being from Jersey I tend to stay away though :) The only other thing that is mixed debate right now is the 747 scene. I'm a flight student at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Arizona (btw there is no Greenville in AZ according to my research) and I've been asking some of my professors if thats actually possible. The general concensus is that it is possible. There was a british TV show that put a mercedes or somethin behind a 747 with only the center 2 engines running at full thrust (58,000 lbs of thrust a piece = 116,000 lbs of thrust) and it blew the car over about 5 times. So its entirely possible to get blown up in the airflow of the engine. However, after hitting the runway that hard and TWICE...i doubt you'd survive, let alone be concious and laughing.

Anyway, just my two cents.

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isnt there sucha think as the silent handoff?

im a pilot and they DO talk that fast in the part of the country


as far the 747 thing mythbusters did it, i forget the outcome however

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The Mythbusters tried to flip a car, which they did fail to do. A human is a little easier to toss about.

~Q

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In the Mythbusters episode you're referring to, the lawyers wouldn't let them do the test properly and it failed. Just recently they did it again and not only flipped a car, but a school bus as well!

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[deleted]

Hmm - a Merc behind a 747... was that Top Gear, by any chance?

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Hey Hedwig378, I did see this movie once in a theater in May, 1999, and did not remember this goof, but upon reading it here I did indeed notice it. And you and coldrestart are both correct. But I'd also know this, because I am from SC (born in Charleston on March 5, 1968, lived in York County from June, 1969 to January, 1997, then the Myrtle Beach area from January to November, 1997, and since late November, 1997 I've lived in Charlotte/Pineville, NC). I also attended college at and lived in Montreat, NC for two school years (1986-87 and 1987-88). And though I've never been to Greensboro, NC, or anywhere in NC east of Charlotte, I have been very aware of this city since the late 1970s, because it is the headquarters of the Atlantic Coast Conference, and where so many ACC basketball tournaments were played that I watched from 1979 into the 1990s. I also met two fellow students in 1986-87 that were from Greensboro, and later learned that Donna Edmondson was from there as well, and still resides there as a real estate agent (she was Playboy Magazine's November, 1986 Playmate, as well as the Playmate of the Year for 1987). And I was also aware that there was a Greenville in both Carolinas, and that East Carolina was in the NC one. They are the Pirates, and the dormitory president of my dorm in fall, 1987 transferred there for January, 1988. They do have a rivalry with Appalachian State, and I know about it as well, as it is in Boone, and this guy from Greensboro I mentioned, as well as two others in my dorm in 1986-87 (who were both from Thomasville, NC-know of it?), transferred to it for 1987-88 (and another student had gone there, then came to this college). And one of my female classmates in high school had also gone to it, as did the head baseball coach of the local high school here, and the guy who married my second cousin (he had already graduated, then waited a semester for her to finish at UNC-Asheville, so they could move to Atlanta and begin their business careers). As for the airports in the two Greenvilles, I know nothing of the NC one, but the SC one is actually in Greer, a small town between Greenville and Spartanburg, and is really called the Greenville/Spartanburg Airport. I have some relatives that have lived in Greer for decades, and the only surviving one I still have occasional phone/mail contact with, and as your mom was from Greensboro, mine was from Spartanburg. And my father's first wife and her family were from Greenville, and that is where his first son grew up after they divorced. It is also where Furman University is, where a few people I knew went to college.

"I happen to be a vegetarian". Lex, from Jurrasic Park

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I was really looking foward to seeing this movie in theaters when I first saw coming attractions for it in March, 1999, partly because I'd had a big interest in the career of air traffic controller myself since the 1980s. I did some reading on it from then until early this decade, and in 2001 even mailed off for some info on how to become one (it was returned unopened). I got that address out of a career book in a B+N bookstore (?), but I did learn in the mid 1980s one had to go to an FAA training center in Oklahoma City, OK for a period to become this. I don't know if a college degree is required, though a high school one would be. I figured after completing this at Oklahoma City, you would be assigned to a smaller airport for a year or two, and if did well enough could go to a big one (ie Hartsfield, O'Hara, Kennedy, La Guardia, Dulles, LAX, Dallas-Fort Worth, Stapleton, Miami International-where I was last April 29 and May 2 and 5-Douglas in Charlotte-where I did go some days in 1993 and 1994-Houston Intercontinental, Newwark). I have always been aware it was certainly a very high stress job, which this movie did indicate, and I remember very well when most of the controllers went on strike for more pay in August, 1981, and were promptly fired by Ronald Reagan for this violation of federal law (which was 25 years ago this August). It was one of the careers I had wanted to do in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but was never too serious, and I realize I would not have been really good at it. One because I don't handle quick pressure well, and probably even more so because my mind tends to wander often (when I'm on a computer, reading, walking, even occasionally watching movies). I was also aware that air traffic controllers, unlike pilots, flight attendants, airline mechanics, baggage handlers, ticket agents, who all work for the various airlines, work for the Federal Aviation Administration (and thus the federal government). I did not understand alot of what they said as them in this movie, but if the other posters on here said it was really correct I'm sure it was. But I did know they worked in the control tower, which is in the middle of airports, and is staffed 24/7, and do mainly use screens and radio communications. But if anyone on here does know what it does take to become an airtraffic controller as I mentioned, please tell me on here, or in a PM, I'd just like to know and would be grateful.

"I happen to be a vegetarian". Lex, from Jurrasic Park

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I'm actually going to try ATC as a career. From what I gathered, you MUST enter an FAA approved program at a University or a Juco. There aren't too many of these places so there may be a waiting list. After that, you have to take the required courses. During that time, you will have to take a big test (I forgot the name), it's like 6 or 8 hours and uses applied mathematics and tests ones memory.

Once you complete those requirements you will have to be recomended to the training facility in OKC. There you will be trained for the specific fields of ATC, like en route or approach etc. You can only train in ONE field as far as I can remember, and in order to move to another, you must repeat the training steps. After you pass from the training in Oklahoma, you will have to wait to get hired by the FAA. You must get hired BEFORE you turn 30 years old, NO EXEPTIONS. After you get picked up to work at a TRACON, (in my case it would probably be SoCal TRACON or Los Angeles Center-whatever you call it), from there you will recieve on the job training until you are completely adequate to handle it alone.

I believe a controllers pay is based on his or her performance, so doing a good job is absolutely neccessary. Last I checked, the top 10% of Air Traffic Controllers made more than $140,000 per year. However the general average is somewhere between $65,000 and $100,000 per year. Also, pay is based on the facility. If you are working at a Level 1 facility, you probably wont earn as much as you counterpart who's working at a level 5.

If anybody that has done ATC wants to check, correct, critique or add to what I said, please do so. I don't have all the facts and may not be completely correct. I too would like to know more.

"Let's get out of here before one of those things kills Guy!"

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Thanks tokyostreetkiller, this, and the PM cashin sent me, cleared nearly everything up. I do hope you suceed and become an ATC. As stated I don't want to be one, though it was a career I did think about briefly while in my 20s, and had kind of wished I had pursued-though by then knew I wouldn't be it, and realized it was good I didn't try. But as I also said I remember well when most of the ATCs went on strike in July, 1981, and were then ordered to return to work by President Ronald Reagan. Most then did not and were promptly fired by him for this. I was in Los Angeles from June 30 to July 23, and went up to his Presidential Library on Sunday, July 8-the top thing I wanted to see there. And it had a special exhibit on this, along with a short news video from Monday, August 3, 1981, when he announced they would be fired unless they stopped this strike and immidiently returned to work. I do remember very well when they did strike and he subsequently fired them in July/August, 1981. I was 13 and about a month from beginning 8th grade. And I remember seeing on TV how so many planes were grounded and could not fly, and so many passengers were stranded at airports. Many were complaining, and one woman among them in a TV interview blamed Reagan, saying "He could've given them a few more dollars". But my mother was very opposed to their going on strike, and said she felt he did exactly right in firing them. I was wondering since I did see this, how is this progressing for you, and do you remember how this was eventually resolved (I think the FAA just hired mostly new ATCs, but used military ones until they could get it back up to full force)?

"I happen to be a vegetarian". Lex, from Jurrasic Park

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[deleted]

Well I did once.

"I happen to be a vegetarian". Lex, from Jurrasic Park

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[deleted]

Ive been a controller at a center for the last 20 years....

Just like anything else....it's a job.....

Personally, I think it's a pretty good one...as far as jobs go....

Good pay...good benefits....

Someone mentioned a "dozen airplanes" as being busy.....

It all depends on the sector, and the situation....

It might be real busy, or not busy at all.....

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Some of the things you said are inaccurate.

There are three ways to become a controller with the FAA:

1. Collegiate Training Initiative (CTI) program - there are currently 32 CTI schools across the nation, that run from two year programs to four year schools. This is the prefered way to become a controller because you will learn a lot and be better prepared to attend and complete the Academy in Oklahoma City.

2. Off the street - I dont know much about this because I just graduated from a CTI school, and waiting to be hired. This is least prefered method as more of these people fail out of the Academy or get fired from their facility once they arrive due to a weak background in aviation or has misconceptions of the job. Facilities fight over the CTI graduates because their success rate is higher.

3. Military - The FAA loves the ex-military controllers because they have a great background and can handle a lot thrown at them. All while checking out completely at their facility quicker than both the CTI grads and off the street people.

Now, you in order to get a job with the FAA as a controller you must take and pass the AT-SAT. This exam isnt difficult and it doesnt test aviation or controller knowledge. It is more like an IQ test. You must make a 70% or better to be considered for employment. 70%-85% is considered "Qualified" and 85%-100% is "Well-Qualified." The people who score better than an 85% get hired first when the FAA does their quarterly hiring.

Finally, you must be hired before the age of 31 to be a controller. This is because it takes a while to completely "check-out" and you must be off the scopes at 56. The FAA doesnt want to waste money training anyone who has to retire in 10 years.

There are more in-depth requirements such as passing a stringent medical exam in which you must possess 20/20 vision (corrected allowed) far, mid, and close, have perfect tone, low blood pressure, pass an EKG, and are not on any meds. Then you have to pass a security check that is very deep.

Look on the website stuckmic.com for some more information.

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250 knots is a speed limit below 10,000' MSL "unless otherwise authorized" by the contrloller. [FAR 91.117 (a)].

And "If the minimum safe airspeed is greater than the max speed prescribed....the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed." [FAR 91.117 (d)]. Sometimes B-747s climb out at some speed faster than 250 knots. If a fighter pilot wants to fly fast below 10,000', that's ok.

As for having to slow to 170 knots 20 miles from an airport--that is not the case. One rule is 200 knots or slower within 4 miles of some airports, but even that rule can be waived.

A phraseology that didn't sound right was when the controller gave a distance as a "mile and a half." I think he might really say "one mile" or "two miles," but not break it down like that.

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Hi there!

Pushing Tin, excellent movie to represent what Air Traffic Controllers job really consists of. It's such a shame so many people out there who travel don't realize how much work ATC's have to do, and how important their role is!

I have been intending to become an ATC for a few years now, and I'm hoping my time has come to begin training!
I was wondering if any of you be kind enough to help me out by offering me some help and maybe answer some questions I have prior to finalizing my application? An email address would help. After all we're all on the same boat, and I probably have the same questions you guys had before you started off! :-D

Thanks very much in advance.

Regards,
Nick

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What do you want to know Nick ?

I have been a controller for over 20 years....
be happy to answer any questions...

Shelly

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I have just one question about work in an ATC center. From the comments on this thread from people with real-life ATC experience, I guess the movie is generally accurate about what goes on. However, considering the demands of the job and the possibility of something going wrong without much advance notice, would the powers that be ever allow a group of school kids like the ones in this flick to "tour" an ATC on a field trip? It seems they could get in the way of a busy center's operations.

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It all depends. I am ATC at Dover Approach. I am in the air force which is another good way to get into ATC. We have tours of children come through but they have to be quiet. I know a lot of people who went military and are working in the FAA right now. Alot of time with Aircraft doing multiple approaches, circling approaches and opposite direction it gets complex and prepare people for the FAA.

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This is exactly why I liked this movie

We hear so much about the stress of this job. Yet, most of us will never been in the control center to see what you really have to do. One reason I wanted to see it.

I worked right under LAX
One Christmas Eve, I remember seeing 6-7 * maybe more* planes stacked up getting ready to land one right after another. Hanging up there in the sky.
The runway area began on the other side of the back fence,of my job
You only pray the ATC are alert.

Cate Blanchett-- this is one of her most beautiful looks in a movie
Ive seen all her movies except this one.. another reason I got it.

Billy Bob Thornton-- I got a laugh that he had on a John Prine cap w/ fishing
He's solid, yet not in the norm . It made perfect sense he would like
good solid quality no hype music like John Prine

John Cusack was fantastic

Angelina Jolie --- One more movie to make me wonder why they call this woman a megastar & why she's earned the right to act arrogant.






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































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You don't say "niner" for an air carrier's callsign. Just learned that today in fact.

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You say you're legal, I say, legal ain't never been my thing

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