I'm confused about something: How could the mother not know that Hortense was black. When she says she's never been with anyone black, she finally remembers. Was it too shameful for her to remember or was she raped and never knew who her assailant was? I couldn't understand that part of the movie.
shareOf COURSE she was raped, god, do you people need to have it written in plain letters flashing across the screen? See her reaction when she realises at the diner whose kid it is, and then at the barbecue after.
We know he wasnt a nice man, and she didnt count it as someone she had sex with. And her reaction of shame and disgust when she realizes who her father must be, it is basically as clear as bold letters across the screen saying rape.
Also in the video above she explains nothing about it really, not anymore then she does in the film. Though i had read most of it was improvised an i always wonder if it's live improivstion, she cleared that up. They improvised it at first but once they got the improvisation done and what they would say, then they shot it for real. So in a way when it's on camera it's not improvised, but their lines were from the improvisation.
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I never knew "You're an Embarrassmet" was a personal song written by Lee Thompson!!!
I also thought she had been raped, but another poster on another thread has pointed out that she was having sex 6 weeks later. I never really thought about that statement until then.
Now I agree she was just deeply embarrassed, as "yes" it was very very frowned upon back in the day.
Mike Leigh likes to leave more questions than anwers in all his films....
@Lorelie
You must be talking about British society, because interracial relationships have ALWAYS been a part of American society, even after they were outlawed for about 200-some years in the South. I got a whole bunch of interracial folks in my family, including my sister and some nieces,nephews and cousins. (I'm black American,BTW). In my parent's home state of Louisiana, interracial relationships between black Africans,Haitians, Native Americans, and Cajuns (white French-Canadians who immigrated to southern Louisiana) were all kicking it together until that got outlawed too. So, here in America, it's always been the norm here and there,depending on what part of the country you lived in that wasn't the South. It was former black slaves and Native Americans that together formed the Black Seminole Indian tribe---read the book OUR LAND BEFORE WE DIE, and do a search on how they finally got classified as real Native Americans---it's a pretty fascinating story in itself.
From what I've read about British racial issues,it sounds like we in America already have been where you are now at least 30 or 30 years ago----the important thing is that you're dealing with it.
It does seem like an awful lot of posters assumed the mother was raped because she was possibly drunk when it happens AND because it was a brother---sounds a bit racist, if you ask me.
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I believe if it was rape it was the statutory kind, a 15 year old girl with an older than 18 year old man. Perhaps if she had multiple partners, and the black man was a one night stand, she just assumed she became pregnant from a lover she saw more often. I could see a 15 year old pregnant girl believing that the father would be someone she had sex with multiple times. In an immature mind, a child could honestly think you do not get pregnant from a one time thing.
If there was drinking involved, and several partners, a young girl could conceivable forget everyone she slept with. Having experience with only one black man, however, when her memory was jolted, she would most likely remember him.
I thought Cynthia didn't want to discuss Hortense 's father, because she would have to admit it was a one night stand, and she knew virtually nothing about him. She didn't want to hurt H that way. At that point, I believe Cynthia hoped to have a relationship with her new found daughter, and didn't want her past to spoil that.
I loved this movie. The actors were dynamic and realistic. If this were real life, I hope they would be able to coexist as some sort of family unit. Perhaps H, by her example, could encourage Roxanne to continue her education. After the initial shock, Cynthia was quite taken with H, and may have wanted to improve her own life as well.
Of COURSE she was raped, god, do you people need to have it written in plain letters flashing across the screen?
Hmmm. I rewatched this on Tuesday, the seventh or so time I've seen this, and yes the circumstances of Hortense's conception are portrayed very ambiguously. A few years ago I bought the book 'Mike Leigh on Mike Leigh' and in that he says what the circumstances were but I don't want to say on here in case it would ruin the mystery for some people. However, I will say that there are clues in the film, and not all have been pointed out in this thread.
shareSpill the beans, its what these boards are for............
shareI'm going to swoop in here 19 years late with the only answer the director ever gave on the subject: https://mycitypaper.com/articles/101096/article006.shtml
DW: The other theory was that Hortense was the product of a rape. [In the film, Cynthia never reveals the circumstances of how she became pregnant with Hortense.] One black woman in the audience protested this. She said, "I just want to know why people assume because it was a black man, it was a rape."
ML: I'm absolutely in sympathy with her. Whatever it was, and I know what it was — but I'm not going to tell you because we decided, I decided that if Cynthia didn't tell Hortense we won't tell you — whatever it was she'd plainly forgotten it.
DW: And she wouldn't forget a rape...
ML: That's not for me to say, you can draw your own conclusions. I will suggest tacitly that you may be on the case. On the other hand, whatever it was, it plainly wasn't a deliriously wonderful experience. And that's all there is to be said about it.
I just saw this wonderful film and found this interview and thread because I also concluded she was raped by reason of deduction.
We have to remember that 1996 was a time before the definition of rape was expanded 1000%(unfortunate IMO) and used to exclusively refer to a violent and unwanted sexual attack of a man against a woman. Also stereotypically was the image of a "masked stranger" when the word was used.
As stated many times already she told her daughter she "aint' never been with a black man" and then shortly afterwards the horrific realization occurs that the man who raped her in the dark, whos identify and race she had never known was the father. Or that she was so blackout drunk she couldn't remember or had blocked it out due to traumatic stress, but ether way that would be rape. It's also clear from her and the directors statement that he was "not a nice man".
Her being sexually active at 15 is not for us to judge, but as she says she assumed it was someone else's(a white mans) baby and was delivered prematurely.
Quality movies that affect you deeply and make you think are hard to come by these days, and I'm so happy I found this one!