MovieChat Forums > Pusher (1996) Discussion > Why the low IMDB rating?

Why the low IMDB rating?


7.4 is good, but this movie is excellent, so just curious what caused others to rate it less than great? I've seen a lot of similar foreign movies on this site that were decent but the rating gets kind of bloated with only a few thousand votes from casual viewers. I'm guessing in this case it's because the ending wasn't clear and left you wondering. Sure, every movie needs an ending, and this one has a strong one, but... maybe some people need a perfect satisfying wrap-up so as not to disturb their sleeping brain with questions. *shrugs*

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i wish i knew. i gave it a 9. i love this whole trilogy.

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call me snake...

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Same here, I also gave it a 9 and also love all 3.

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I'll risk some hate and take the other side of the argument; I'd give this about a 6.5 - 7.0. Not bad at all - on the "pro" side, I will say that the performances were quite good insofar as an english speaker can tell, the Danish scenery is interesting, and the ending was a cut above for this sort of thing. The biggest problem for me is that this is pretty much a typical "deal gone bad, small timer in over his head" setup that's been done better more than a few times (Bad Lieutentant, for an example, shares the same story arc and in my opinion is the better film), the main character is a fully unlikeable idiot that had me pulling for Milo just to end him (not great for dramatic tension) and it just has the feel of a self-conciously gritty indie (was it?) film of the '90's - in other words, a bit dated.

For all that, it was above average and I'm happy I came across it.

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No hate here mate. :)
I think 6.5 - 7.0 is very respectable and your criteque/review very fair,
I'm sure there's plenty out there but in all the Danish films I've seen
to date I've yet to see a bad one, also embarrassingly I've never seen
Bad Lieutenant, I should check that out.

Cheers.

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oh yes theres plenty out there, most of them in fact, are terrible, and its in my opinion less than a handful of directors (3) that is making anything worth watching

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I agree with this very much (though I like the challenge of less than sympathetic protagonists personally and respect movies that break for the safe devices of getting us on the side of the main character). I also like endings that leave you wondering. I think the rating is very respectable especially for a love/hate film like this where I think a lot of people will give reactively low ratings.

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It's nowhere near as good as the sequels and the ending is far too abrupt.

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[deleted]

I guess Americans are used to getting a clear ending in the gangster movies - Michael steps in charge of the family business, Tony Montana gets killed, Henry and the rest of the goodfellas convicted. Probably this could be partly the reason.
However, the final of Pusher is not abrupt at all - you can expect that this would eventually happen - Vic leaves Frank for good. During the whole movie he has been refusing to let her get close to him, he has been totally cold, he has been treating her with a minimum respect, insulting her by calling her a whore etc. So the final wasn't abrupt or confusing or anything like this - it was matter of time. Because, you know, a movie it's not all about what you see, but what it says - so as the sequences roll one after another, a whole moral story is unfold and it actually came to an end at exactly the right time.
Another reason, I suppose, is that Americans are used to observing a stylized gangsters - the expensive suits, the expensive cribs, the expensive clubs. However in Europe the gangster movies are much more realistic - the characters are dressed in tracksuits, they wear cheap and fake jewellery and hang out in beer-stinking bars.

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[deleted]

No, no, sorry, mate, I didn't mean to be offensive - I really love American movies, even more than the European, I just tried to explain that in my opinion the US way of making gangster movies is really different and the audience that is not used to Refn's way could be kind of confused or exasperated. : ]

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"Us Americans are a bunch of rubes, incapable of appreciating the nuances that non-Americans can."

That's right.

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Stupidest comment i've read on IMDB to date.

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Yeah, that is probably the main reason. People, not only English speaking, often lose interest in the plot if they can't understand what the people in the film are saying without having to read it. I guess that's why many countries do voice-overs. Unfortunately for the ratings here for this film they're of course also allowed to rate it. Unfortunately, because it is really a great film about a miserable persons life going down the toilet.

I just watched the English remake, and boy, different directing and editing can make a huge difference to one story. I think the remake was close to a disaster.

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I agree with you. I am American and find it very very hard to find anyone to watch movies with if they are subtitled. It's a shame as there are so many great films/series outside of our borders and I watch quite a lot of them. Most of the time when I suggest one they ask if there is an English dubbed version. The same people think I'm crazy when I say that dubbed movies are distracting. Dubbed movies come across as hoakey to me, they feel so fake. Even if a movie is in a different language I have to have the volume at a high enough level so you can hear everything, even if you don't understand what they are saying just hearing the voice inflection is important as it helps you "feel" the dialog. It makes such a big difference to hear the actual actor on screen speaking, regardless of you being able to understand them. You can watch a dubbed movie and someone can come across as a bad actor but you can watch the same movie subtitled and the actor will come across as excellent.

A vast majority of the time non-english movies are underrated IMDB. My guess is that someone hears what a great movie so and so is and then they try watching it and can't get into it for the reason you stated. My rule of thumb is to give non-english movies a handicap and add 1.5-2 stars to the IMDB rating, that roughly adds up to make it evenly rated to what I would consider an "equivalently" good english speaking movie. That's all subjective but it works for me


-- Den som vinkar till den blinde, han gör fåfängt arbete.

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One great thing my mother did for me was take me to subtitled movies when I was a kid, like Bergman's "The Magic Flute." I didn't always love them, but it got me used to reading subtitles. By the time I saw Kurosawa's "Ran" when I was 11 or 12, I was totally blown away. It doesn't matter if a movie has subtitles. If it looks good I'll be just as excited to see it as any American or British film.

Watching a dubbed movie is like watching a film with the sound turned off and a very stupid person with a loud voice explaining the plot to you.

http://ocdviewer.com

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Great comment about us Americans.....so many great and good movies with subtitles just go unwatched. Very few ratings and reviews compared to the run of the mill action or drama stuff generated over hear. I mean look at reality TV. Gad what an embarrassment.
Good idea the other poster has give foreign fare a couple points handicap. Mom and I bought a code free all region player yrs ago and we get lot of UK and DK ., etc. stuff. We much prefer it over the mostly watered down, music upped films from Hollywood.
Like someone pointed out ...no not all Americans are rubes and lack culture but Gad look at what sells and is being watched? I mean really? Give me a Wallander or a Foyles War over most any mainstream TV/Movie from American system...please.
I have heard the many people in America have never heard of NPR , let alone say MHz. It's actually somewhat frightening or at least dis concerning.

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7.4 is actually a very good rating on this site. I think 9 stars are reserved for films that are total masterpieces of cinema. And i think Pushers subject matter is only gonna appeal to a small percentage of viewers; it really isn't for everybody. but yes, it is an impressive film.

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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If 8 is a masterpiece then what the hell is a 9 or a 10? I'm curious here.

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Well an 8 star rating on this site is very impressive. 9 or 10 stars is really "masterpiece territory" but 8 is pretty damn close. you don't see too many films that earn 8 stars here..

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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This was a good gritty film..
Frank was not a likeable guy.. so when his world started falling apart... it was hard to care about him.

I give it a 6.
but I only give out 8 or better to a few films..
Once Were Warriors I give a 9.

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I consider anything above 7+ to be very high by IMDB standards (assuming there's a sizable user count that voted, say 5-10k+)

It's quite rare to see a movie surpass 8 on this site.

Generally I follow something like this:
5.5 or less = gamble, could be horrible, but could just be a niche sort of movie or one that didn't get enough publicity/advertisement.

5.5-6.x = usually fair/worth watching, not absolutely horrible

7.x = very good, well-liked, worth watching

8.x+ = insane, must see

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I'm surprised by how high the score is. This film was good, but nothing special. We've seen this story and style a million times before. It's the same style as "Romper Stomper" (which came out 4 years earlier) with many of the same themes. I honestly don't understand why this film has so much love compared to so many of it's equally good peers. It deserves between 6.5 - 7.0. If it was made in the 80's I'd understand, but I honestly think it may be over-rated by people who rarely watch foreign language films and are surprised they found one they liked. As it has violence and a very fast pace.

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I'm surprised by how high the score is. This film was good, but nothing special. We've seen this story and style a million times before. It's the same style as "Romper Stomper" (which came out 4 years earlier) with many of the same themes. I honestly don't understand why this film has so much love compared to so many of it's equally good peers. It deserves between 6.5 - 7.0. If it was made in the 80's I'd understand, but I honestly think it may be over-rated by people who rarely watch foreign language films and are surprised they found one they liked. As it has violence and a very fast pace.

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