Oh, I think Lucy Steele in this film is well aware that Edward has feelings for Elinor, and presumably she suspects that Elinor may have feelings for him, too. I get a great deal of pleasure from seeing sly, devious little Lucy needling Elinor over Edward. 😀
Lucy is an interesting character to me, because she is an antagonist without actually being evil. Yes, she stays engaged to Edward long after his affection for her has ceased, preventing him from being with Elinor, the woman he truly loves, but so what? What else is she to do? Her marital chances are even worse than those of the Dashwood sisters, so, from a purely practical standpoint, her interest in Edward makes perfect sense. Evil? No, simply practical. 😉 She rightly sees Elinor as a potential threat -- the "other woman," if you will -- and takes action accordingly.
As an aside, I have always found it deeply amusing that it is Elinor -- prim, proper, conventional Elinor, and not Marianne -- who (unknowingly, to be fair) falls in love with an engaged man. Willoughby is a creep and a jackass, but whatever bad things he has done by the time he meets Marianne (impregnating Brandon's ward, for one thing), he isn't engaged to anyone. Edward made a huge mistake in being so attentive to Elinor, as it gave her the false impression that he was unattached -- though, fortunately, she did not allow herself to expect anything.
I can't even fault Lucy for breaking off her engagement after Edward loses his inheritance. Heck, Anne Elliot in Persuasion broke off her engagement to Frederick Wentworth, and although she later feels some regret for having done so, the text makes it clear that we are to sympathize with Anne and to view her decision as understandable, even prudent -- at least based on her and Wentworth's circumstances in 1806. So, given this treatment of Anne, it makes no sense to me to vilify Lucy for breaking her engagement.
In my opinion, Lucy falls into deeply unsympathetic territory only after she ditches Edward. Running off to immediately marry Robert, who is now in possession of the fortune that would've been his brother's, is incredibly tacky. 😉
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~ The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
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fatalframe80
9 years ago
I agree with you basically about Lucy being more prudent by warning Elinor off. I think why I don't like her is that once she does, Elinor makes no attempt to 'catch' Edward, even trying to avoid him but Lucy incessantly needles her about it (your word needle is very accurate). Another reason Lucy's position is so precarious is that her and Edward's engagement was secret. Meaning he could break it off at any moment and not receive much censure for it because basically no one knows about it. Lucy and her sister, to me, are particularly unappetizing in the book.
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Lady Cole
9 years ago
The only time I felt anything but contempt for Lucy was when Fannie exploded at her after she told her of being engaged to Edward. I was killing myself laughing too hard!
We are Mods! We are Mods! We are, we are, we are Mods!
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Raincrow11
9 years ago
I agree that it's a bit mean-spirited of Lucy to continue to rub her engagement in Elinor's face. What I was trying to get across is that, for me, Lucy becomes deeply unsympathetic, as opposed to just mildly annoying and antagonistic, when she runs off to marry Robert. Prior to that point, I don't exactly like her, although I do find her very entertaining (in both the book and the movie) and feel that most of her actions are understandable. As you say, before the engagement becomes publicly known, it would be very easy for Edward to break it off. The fact that he doesn't is a testament to his honor and loyalty, even though it seems almost borderline-insane by modern standards. 😉
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~ The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
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fatalframe80
9 years ago
That always ticked me off too. Like you said, up until then her actions are mostly understandable but being the reason Edward loses his inheritance (which incidentally makes me loathe his mother) and then keeping him on the hook until she has his brother is, well, despicable! And the message she sends to Elinor, making her believe that Lucy really did marry Edward at the last and pretty much breaking her heart is just rotten and mean.
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Julie-30
9 years ago
It's not just honor and duty. It's legality. Engagements were very, very difficult to break back then. They were just about as binding as a marriage.
If Edward had broken the engagement, he could have been sued for breach of contract. It is also, by the way, an interesting contrast with Willoughby, who was happy to have the world think that he and Marianne were engaged, but stopped just short of letting Marianne herself think they were engaged. So Marianne's reputation takes a hit, but Willoughby is able to do what he really wants, which is to marry someone who has money.
Edward is a decent, honorable man. Willoughby is a toerag.
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Raincrow11
9 years ago
So Edward persists in his engagement to Lucy because he’s afraid of a potential lawsuit? I love that -- it sounds so perfectly Austenian. 😂 But I have to admit that it raises a couple of questions in my mind. Firstly, why does Edward’s family want him to break it off? Is it because they have enough money that they aren’t particularly concerned about the legal hassles (and the resulting scandal)? Secondly, was breaking off an engagement a “privilege” (in this case, essentially a form of benevolent sexism) that applied only to women and never to men? If so, then that would explain why Lucy Steele and (for that matter) Anne Elliot are allowed to end their engagements without facing legal repercussions.
If this is all true, then it slightly alters my opinion of Edward; it definitely makes his actions appear more logical, but it also means that he doesn’t really deserve any special praise for not breaking off the engagement. In my opinion, choosing a particular course of action because you know it's the decent and moral thing to do is more honorable than choosing that same course of action just because you're trying to avoid punishment (e.g., a lawsuit). (On the other hand, I think one could argue that being married to Lucy might be a worse "punishment.") It all fits very well with Austen's rather caustic sense of humor, though. 😉
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~ The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
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Julie-30
9 years ago
No, Edward is still being honorable. If he'd broken the engagement, using the excuse that he was too young to get engaged without his mother's permission (which he likely was), Lucy's reputation still could have been damaged. And he was far too honorable to allow that to happen.
Edward's mother was a controlling sort, and she wants him to marry someone who has pots of money. Enter Miss Morton. Her father has a title, and she is an heiress. As far as Mrs. Ferrars is concerned, it's a perfect match.
It's not that she cares so much about Lucy's reputation or a lawsuit, it's that she cares that Edward did something without consulting her, and that the woman he got himself engaged to was socially and financially beneath him. Just think about how Mrs. John Dashwood and her mother treat Elinor herself. They treat her like a poor relation (which she is) and Mrs. John warns Elinor repeatedly that Edward will marry someone his mother wants him to.
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Raincrow11
9 years ago
Thanks! I've read the book several times, and I knew all that about Edward's controlling family, Miss Morton, Lucy's reputation, etc. I just find it odd to contemplate that Edward may have been trying to avoid a lawsuit, since Austen doesn't allude to it. It doesn't seem to have even crossed the minds of Edward's family.
I always assumed that, if Edward broke his engagement, it would be a scandal, and society would consider Lucy to be "damaged goods." Obviously, I understood that Edward would want to avoid such a situation, and that he is too good a man to want to hurt Lucy, but I did not think that there was any real danger of legal repercussions. Maybe Austen felt it was something that was unnecessary to mention. At any rate, I'm not saying that it makes Edward dishonorable -- only that the specter of a lawsuit makes his actions seem quite a bit less admirable (but far more logical 😉) than they would if he honored his engagement purely out of concern for Lucy.
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~ The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
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Julie-30
9 years ago
I don't think they are concerned about a lawsuit. After all, they could buy her off if necessary.
But Edward is very, very concerned about having given his word. He is nothing if not honorable.
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magpieskye
9 years ago
Lucy's concern in keeping the engagement secret isn't because she's afraid she'll lose Edward (that his mother will force him to break off the engagement); Lucy knows she can count on Edward's honor. Her concern is that Edward 's mother will cut him off. His inheritance is in his mother's power to bestow (in the book he has a small income of his own that his mother doesn't control, but it's not enough on which to support Lucy).
So Lucy keeps the secret all those years hoping there will be some means by which Edward or someone else is able to convince Mrs. Ferrars not to disinherit Edward if he marries her.
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randommovies2002
8 years ago
Actually, if Edward had broken his engagement to Lucy, it wouldn't have been scandalous in the way you imagine. Lucy wouldn't have been considered damaged goods; she would have been an object of pity. She would have been gossipped about as a girl who wasted her best years on the marriage market being secretly engaged to a man who fianlly did not keep his word to marry her.
That's the reason why Edward could have been sued for breach of promise, because while Lucy was engaged to him, she was "off the market" and thus, passing up other chances of marriage, and security for the future.
Mrs Ferrars wants Edward to break the engagement, knowing the family can simply pay Lucy off and it will never go to court. She is not worried about the possibility of a lwasuit, and neither is Edward. But Edward will not break it off because he is too honorable to dump Lucy and leave her to end up a spinster. She spent five years being faithful to Edward when she could have been insuring her future security by accepting the attentions of other prospective husbands. Her chances of finding a husband now are much slimmer. That's why he will not break it off.
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angelosdaughter
9 years ago
Lucy is poor; apparently even Edward's mother didn't know of the secret engagement. Her hopes for her eldest son were very high. She found out by accident. When Edward insisted honorably (because he was honorable, and no other reason that is indicated) on continuing the engagement to Lucy, whom Ms. Farrars didn't consider of high enough status for her son, she disinherited him and settled the inheritance on his brother. Her reaction to the revelation was probably a lot like that in the movie of Fanny, the Dashwood sister's sister-in-law, wife of their half-brother, Robert, when Lucy revealed the secret engagement to her.
I could be a morning person if morning happened at noon.
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Raincrow11
8 years ago
When Edward insisted honorably (because he was honorable, and no other reason that is indicated) on continuing the engagement to Lucy, whom Ms. Farrars didn't consider of high enough status for her son, she disinherited him and settled the inheritance on his brother.
Oh, I agree that Edward's sense of honor is what makes him decide to continue the engagement. I guess I've just been a little too amused by the idea, expressed by other people in this thread, that Edward was trying to avoid a lawsuit.
Her reaction to the revelation was probably a lot like that in the movie of Fanny, the Dashwood sister's sister-in-law, wife of their half-brother, Robert, when Lucy revealed the secret engagement to her.
Haha, now I'm imagining Mrs. Ferrars knocking Lucy down and dragging her out of the house by her nose. 😉 I have to admit, Fanny's squabble with Lucy is one of the few scenes in this movie that has always seemed just flat-out stupid to me.
Mrs. Ferrars is clearly a formidable person, though. I think that's one aspect of the character that never quite comes across in adaptations. I've now seen all four film versions of S&S, and neither the 1971, the 1981, nor the 2008 adaptation perfectly captures Mrs. Ferrars's intimidating yet petty personality, in my opinion. Of course, this 1995 version never shows her on screen.
"Courage is found in unlikely places." ~
The Fellowship of the Ring, J.R.R. Tolkien
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Furienna (3322)
7 years ago
As you say, before the engagement becomes publicly known, it would be very easy for Edward to break it off. The fact that he doesn't is a testament to his honor and loyalty, even though it seems almost borderline-insane by modern standards. 😉
Borderline-insane is the correct word. It is hard for me to grasp how anybody could be so honorable, that he would stick to his engagement to a girl, whom he didn't care for anymore, even though it costed him that inheritance
and almost also any chance to be with Elinor, whom he now had fallen in love with instead. Maybe I could buy that Edward was an exceptionally kind man, who had no wish to hurt Lucy's feelings and possibly ruin her reputation. But still, some times you have to think about your own happiness as well. Of course, my feelings about all of this might have been different if Lucy had really been in love with Edward. However... Even if that had been the case, it would have been the best for both of them, in the long run, if he just silently had broken the engagement off and married Elinor instead. But by a stroke of luck, Edward learned that Lucy didn't love him either. So he was let off the hook, when she immediately went and hooked up with his brother instead. And even though all the money now had gone to Robert instead, Edward had become free to marry Elinor. So yeah...
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Scarlett_Butler
9 years ago
It's kind of amusing to think that after all of Lucy's unpleasantness, her more or less rubbing her engagement in Elinor's face, Lucy and Eleanor end up sisters in-law, married to two brothers.
Elinor is basically stuck with this viper-in-everyone's-bosom. Hah.
Thankfully they would probably live in different cities.
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fatalframe80
9 years ago
Yes, Lucy and Robert live in London, I think, so they probably rarely see each other.
On another note, Edward still deserves praise for continuing the engagement because it is only with public engagements that the legal threats are valid. With the engagement being secret it is basically her word against his. He could claim that she's making the whole thing up. Her being in a lower social and monetary position, also, would make the legal threat much less likely.
A woman did have the say in whether or not to end a marriage without the censure that a man would get but if she were to do it a lot (or pull similar stuff as Lucy did) she would become known as a jilt and less likely to be approached later.
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randommovies2002
8 years ago
But even in private engagements, such as Edward's to Lucy, there is no shortage of evidence if the man has written letters to his fiancee. Edward did write to Lucy, and she naturally would have saved all of his letters. Over a five year period, all those letters would have been damning evidence, indeed.
But it still would not have gone to court. Mrs. Ferrars would have her attorney offer Lucy a substantial enough settlement to prevent that. Knowing that Lucy could not have afforded to bring such a suit, and came from a segment of society that was decidedly lower than that of the Ferrars family, the attorney would have calculated the amount necessary to settle Lucy's claim without going to court.
Edward still deserves praise for continuing the engagement because he gave Lucy his word, and won't go back on it. Also, he refuses to be the cause of Lucy ending uo a spinster, knowing she spent five years being faithful to him when she could have been accepting the attentions of other marriageable men. He knows that if he were to break off with her now, her chances of making another match were next to nil. (He greatly underestimates her powers of persuasion, n'est-ce pas?). 😄
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nightswimming80
8 years ago
And why was Lucy allowed to marry Robert? Wouldn't his mother disallow him for that just like she did with Edward? Or did Lucy and Robert marry in secret and it was too late to turn things around?
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tsegal-1
8 years ago
She wasn't happy about it, but she had no sons left to disinherit! So the mom was stuck with Lucy.
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RJBose
8 years ago
This is the question I had as well; how could Lucy marry the other brother without his being disinherited as well? Is that addressed in the novel?
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maijuutuub
8 years ago
Yes, it is addressed in the novel. My memories of this movie are a bit hazy, but I think it's actually addressed in the movie as well.
When Mrs. Ferrars hears about Edward's secret engagement, which he refuses to break off, in a fit of rage she gives the money that would have been eventually given to Edward as the eldest son to Robert... As some kind of gesture, I suppose, to emphasize that Edward is no son of hers any longer. After that, it's not hers to take back. No doubt she would have taken it back if she could, but it was not an option anymore.
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