Hey, although Carl did some pretty negative things in his life (rape, murder, burglary, and so on), I couldn't help but feel sympathy for him in the end because there was goodness within him despite all of his wrongdoings...Henry saw that in him, that's why he took such a liking to him...
does anyone agree or disagree?
"U find me offensive, I find u offensive for finding me offensive" Em
How on earth can anyone feel anything towards Carl Panzram except for 'good riddance' at his hanging? My gosh, the guy was a total monster. He killed several men, both in Poruguese West Africa, and the United States, raped at least one woman, sodomized many dozens of men and boys, and you feel sorry for him?
Not to mention the thefts and arsons and goodness alone knows how many other crimes he committed. But you're right: poor Carl.
I understand your point...and I'm not saying that Carl did not deserve to be hanged at the end. Watching the film, I couldn't help but feel something for him because, as I've mentioned before, the positivity within him was overruled by the negative actions he took.
I appreciate your comment because it makes perfect sense, and I hope you understand my viewpoint.
"It's gonna happen. All the people who change the world die in violence" 2Pac
<I understand your point...and I'm not saying that Carl did not deserve to be hanged at the end. Watching the film, I couldn't help but feel something for him because, as I've mentioned before, the positivity within him was overruled by the negative actions he took.
I appreciate your comment because it makes perfect sense, and I hope you understand my viewpoint.>
No meannness towards you was intended at all. And, regretfully, my response may have left this impression. But for the life of me, I simply can't see wasting symnpathy on someone like Panzram. Just to give you an idea of what kind of person he was; when he was in Portuguese West Africa working for the Sinclair Oil Company, he shot several natives so he could feed them to the crocodiles. Later on, he made a joke about "feeding **racial expletive** to the crocs".
He also wrote that he had killed a number of men, burned down a number of buildings and "committed sodomy on no less than 1,000 male human beings. For all of these crimes, I am not the least bit sorry."
I don't want to pile it on you, but after all this, do you still feel sorry for him?
Ironically, yes I do. That's because I am against the death penalty. I feel that if people commit crimes, they should suffer the consequence of imprisonment--even if it's for life. But I don't feel that the life of any human being should be taken, regardless of the intensity of the crimes.
So that's why I will always have sympathy for Carl. And can I assume that you're for the death penalty--or is it just in this case?
"It's gonna happen. All the people who change the world die in violence" 2Pac
<And can I assume that you're for the death penalty--or is it just in this case?>
Yes, I support it in extreme cases, always given proper judicial review. Panzram's case was an example where I think it was justified. And apparantly Panzram himself saw the justice of it as well.
Richard Hickok, another case from Kansas--he was one of the In Cold Blood killers--said that his sentence was just, as well.
It should be reserved for the worst cases, however.
Having said that, let me also say that I respect your POV, even though I don't agree with it.
Gary,
I never responded to you. Thanks for respecting my opinion--I can very well respect yours!
By the way, do u like any other films featuring James Woods?
"It's gonna happen. All the people who change the world die in violence" 2Pac
<Gary,
I never responded to you. Thanks for respecting my opinion--I can very well respect yours!
By the way, do u like any other films featuring James Woods?>
Thank you for the very kind words. My policy is to respect other POV's and be polite when they are. If they are not polite, I try to point this out and/or ignore the other person.
To answer your question, yes I have at least two other films with James Woods; one is Badge of the Assassin and the other is Raid on Entebbe. In BOTA, Woods plays the Manhattan deputy DA who prosecutes the killers of two NYPD patrolmen. In ROE he plays one of the Israeli commandos who freed the Israeli and Jewish hostages from the PFLP terrorists when they were taken to Uganda in July 1976. I'm pretty sure that I have other films with Woods in them but off hand, I don't recall what they are.
How about you?
Yes I love James Woods! I believe he's a very underappreciated actor! I own Once Upon a Time in America and Casino (in which he played a smaller role). I love his role as Max in Once Upon a Time in America, his role as Cleve in Best Seller, in which he played a hitman interested in getting a former cop to write his story, and also as the father in The Virgin Suicides.
Hey I sent you a pm..check it out! : )
"It's gonna happen. All the people who change the world die in violence" 2Pac
I sent you a PM.
shareI blame the people who turned Carl Panzram into a monster more than I do the man himself. I can't say I sympathize with him, as taking out revenge on little boys is sickening. But the fact is, he wanted nothing out of life but revenge on society for producing the types of individuals who abused and mistreated him. He got it.
shareNobody turned Carl into a monster. He chose to behave the way he did. He was not forced. Lots of people come from awful backgrounds but have the strength to not become savages. Carl did what he did because he was weak. Nobody made him do anything. He deserves sympathy from nobody.
shareCarl was never shown any love when in his life,and was beating to pieces and treated like *beep* in prison,no excuses really,but damn that must effect you big time,check this out after he tried to escape what were nightmare prisons back then
Panzram made his first attempt at escape within a few months. He climbed one of the prison walls and immediately fell 30 feet below onto a concrete step. He broke both legs and ankles. His spine was also badly injured. He received no medical attention for his injuries. He was carried into a cell and dropped on the floor.
“I was dumped into a cell without any medical attention or surgical attention whatever. My broken bones were not set. My ankles and legs were not put into a cast…The doctor never came near me and no one else was allowed to do anything for me…At the end of 14 months of constant agony, I was taken to the hospital where I was operated on for my rupture and one of my testicles were cut out.”
Brutal times,and sadly that is what they got a brute of a man,who maybe if he had been shown the right way to do things would have not been like that,but sadly theres thousands of men like carl,just not all have killed yet,i mean that they are cold and look on life with unloving and uncaring eyes,god alone knows what the answer is.
I'm not very big on the death penalty. I could be content if a lot of the people it would otherwise be applied to were simply locked away for life so they wouldn't endanger people anymore.
This guy is different: he killed and raped people wherever he could find them, and locking him away just meant he'd be killing inmates and guards instead of civilians on the streets. (assuming they managed to keep him from escaping.)
In a case like this, there is little else you can do except put him to death. It isn't even so much a matter of it being a punishment. It's rendering a very dangerous man harmless and ending his own misery at the same time. You might say his hanging was almost an act of self defense by the rest of humanity. The tragedy for everybody involved is it didn't happen 30 years earlier. If it wasn't so easy to forge identities back then it probably would have.
Does the penal system bear some responsibility? Sure they do. However, even given the cruelty of the system back then most of the men in it didn't become serial rapists and thrill killers. That extra mile is on Panzram alone.
There is a certain flicker of nastiness in even the nicest of us, but in this man somehow it grew to be his entire being. Nothing good was lost when he died.
<I'm not very big on the death penalty. I could be content if a lot of the people it would otherwise be applied to were simply locked away for life so they wouldn't endanger people anymore.
This guy is different: he killed and raped people wherever he could find them, and locking him away just meant he'd be killing inmates and guards instead of civilians on the streets. (assuming they managed to keep him from escaping.)
In a case like this, there is little else you can do except put him to death. It isn't even so much a matter of it being a punishment. It's rendering a very dangerous man harmless and ending his own misery at the same time. You might say his hanging was almost an act of self defense by the rest of humanity. The tragedy for everybody involved is it didn't happen 30 years earlier. If it wasn't so easy to forge identities back then it probably would have.
Does the penal system bear some responsibility? Sure they do. However, even given the cruelty of the system back then most of the men in it didn't become serial rapists and thrill killers. That extra mile is on Panzram alone.
There is a certain flicker of nastiness in even the nicest of us, but in this man somehow it grew to be his entire being. Nothing good was lost when he died. >
I agree with you for the most part, especially the part higlighted in red. Carl Panzram had the choice to kill or not, to burn or not, to rape or not. Many men came out of the penal system back then and did not commit the type of crimes that Panzram did.
Sure, the penal system bore some of the blame, but Carl Panzram deserved more, and in the final analysis, Panzram got what he deserved.
I agree with you on the "final solution". There are just some individuals who have not an ounce of redeeming values and who have committed gross offenses against not only other individuals but society as a whole. Removing them from society in many cases does not stop the violence since even in prison, in solitary, they still have chances to murder or maim again and again.
It's too bad that in our civilized society that we are unable to punish criminals the same way they punished their victims especially in the cases of rape and in particular child rape and murder. That would be the ultimate deterrent for many of these savages.
Many criminals in a perverse way actually like prison life so for those individuals the limitations of freedom is not really punishment in their eyes.
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My favorite: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
pabbashivkuamr1125
I agree. In fact the sympathy created looked too contrived and even unconvincing.
What's his justification for doing all those wily things. He was wronged, yes. But that didn't really justify those evil deeds.
[deleted]
Agree but your forgetting to mention something they made clear. That he was a product of his environment.
share