MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Voyager (1995) Discussion > Just watched "Endgame" for the first tim...

Just watched "Endgame" for the first time.


How could a Captain in Star Fleet disobey an Admiral?

"Admiral" Janeway ordered Voyager to enter the transwarp conduit to go home to Alpha Quadrant. And "Captain" Janeway ordered her crew to evacuate the Borg Nebula immediately. And the crew disobeyed the Admiral and followed the Captain.

Doesn't an Admiral outrank a Captain? Isn't that treason worthy of a court martial?

And how plausible is it that Voyager could hide inside a Borg sphere that is chasing them and trying to destroy them? And then blow that sphere up from the inside?


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Yeeah, these kind of flaws were typical of the show. Usually began with an interesting concept, but petered out by the third act, finishing with some technobabble deus ex machina.

However there is a reasonable answer to your first question; given that the Admiral was violating to well established rules concerning time travel, and shouldn't have been there in the first place, it's not likely that the Captain had to fear a court martial, or any reprisal, for that matter.

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Thank you Th3rdpwr for saying I was justified for questioning those two issues.

Another thing that crossed my mind during the program was, many movies and TV shows have addressed the time travel issue with different rules. I don't know if this should apply to this program but, aren't there supposed to be rules and restrictions concerning one person going back in time and meeting themselves? And if future Janeway died in the destruction of the Borg Nebula, wouldn't that cause past Janeway to cease to exist?

I don't have any insistence one way or another. But, that (time travel rules and restrictions) was always a point of confusion for me when watching science fiction.


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Were these the two rules of time travel you say the show was already violating?

. . . aren't there supposed to be rules and restrictions concerning one person going back in time and meeting themselves? And if future Janeway died in the destruction of the Borg Nebula, wouldn't that cause past Janeway to cease to exist?


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A brief rundown of standard time travel. Basic assumption is if one can travel in time, all time must therefore exist; and like a coast to coast highway, we perceive it as linear (past to present to future, through a series of causes and effects).
The basis of the federation rules is fear of the "Butterfly Effect", where going back and affecting past events can have major, possible negative, ramifications on the present. Whether one can or should travel, and the effects it might have, is the foundation of most stories concerning trips through time; it's at that point when rules may vary (the effect meeting one's younger self may have; how much the past can be altered; alternate/mutiple timelines; can the past be changed at all).

The fundamental problem with altering the past is the creation of paradoxes; if one travels to the past to make a specific change and succeeds, once returned to the present, the reason for travelling in the first place has been negated, no need to go back and make the change; but if you don't go back, the original problem remains (the need to go back, then no need to go back, then need to go back ad infinitum).

Paradoxes are the big issue that most writers have to deal with; how good the story, is often determined by how well the paradox problem is handled. Voyager was always sloppy in this regard.

In 'Endgame' Adm. Janeway goes back to change events, and succeeds; consequently, she should have ceased to exist. Some would theorize the she didn't change her own past, but created an alternate timeline; my problem with this completely viable theory is that the viewer is now asked to follow a different timeline from the original, solely to let the writers off the hook. In any case, the producers of the show just decided to ignore the issue altogether(they often did this); sloppy, lazy, and somewhat insulting.

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Okay thanks Th3rdpwr. But didn't Voyager bypass all of that with string theory? In other words, different time lines and alternate realities?

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I might be wrong, so please correct me here if I am - but as far as I understand it, CAPTAIN is the ultimate authority on his ship. He is the Alpha and the Omega, he is the LAW. If the captain says you have to jump on one leg the whole cruise or you'll be put to jail, you lawfully have to do it because you are on his ship.

I am not sure, but it seems Admiral 'outranks' the captain in the command hierarchy and all that, _BUT_ that does not overrule what I said above about captain being the ultimate judge and jury of the ship. So a captain CAN lawfully throw an admiral in jail (or brig or whatever), or do whatever he wants, because the captain has more authority over what happens in the ship, even though the admiral outranks him and outside the ship, has more authority over everything.

I hope this answers the question... a ship's captain is basically 'lawfully omnipotent', because you're not on LAND anymore - so even 'freeman-on-the-land' is under the captain's authority, that's why courts these days use the 'law of the high seas' instead of the 'law of the land', but this is a long story that leads to very conspiratory paths, and I am too tired right now.

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