MovieChat Forums > The Shadow (1994) Discussion > Criminally Underrated

Criminally Underrated

posted 12 years ago by folawande
7 replies | jump to latest

I know bad movies. I am a guy who never uses worst movie ever in earnest knowing full well that there is an ocean of bad movies out there. So let me say once and for all that this is not a bad movie.

I cannot fathom the low rating this movie has or why more people don't love it but I have to say that I do. This movie is a fine exemplar of what a fun movie should be. We have an interesting hero with a truly dark past played charmingly by Alec Baldwin. We have a series of supporting characters that don't distract from the movie and in fact add to the enjoyment of it. John lone as the bad guy is both enigmatic, threatening and is given enough screen time to make him a far more intriguing bad guy than most. Let's talk about the action scenes, very well choreographed. The cinematography and setting were all oh so immersive as to make it a fully realized world.

I think that this movie came out four years too early. Blade came out in 1998 and kick started the whole super hero movie craze of today. But I feel it, the shadow and less than a handful other super hero movies are as genuinely fun to watch as they want to be. I hope that I am not alone in thinking this movie is criminally underrated.

[–] nardpuncher 12 years ago

This is true.

I really like this movie and it's sort of weird how few people like it in the general public. I remember that when it came out...my friends asking me "What? You liked that movie?"

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

War-path, you did a good job of articulating why you didn't enjoy the film, and even though I disagree with you on some points, I can appreciate where you are coming from and respect your point of view.

You know, I hated this movie back in 1994 when I saw it in theaters. All I carried from it was a memory of it having nice visual flare. A few years back, I stumbled across the film again and decided to give it another shot. I ended up enjoying it immensely. Of course, I have changed a lot through the years. I used to take superhero films and such far more seriously than I do now. That is why I liked Batman 89 so much, but felt insulted by the campy approach to movies like The Shadow or TV shows like Lois & Clark. A while back, my best friend and I watched all of Lois & Clark, and I was able to enjoy the show a great deal. The camp didn't bother me at all, and I loved the great chemistry between Teri Hatcher and Dean Cain. I honestly feel like they are the best on-screen depictions of the characters to date. The only reason I am talking about Lois & Clark is because The Shadow, made at the same time as that show, reminds me of it a lot, albeit with a darker edge to it. Hell, Peter Boyle appears in both, hamming it up as he does so well! The camp approach was nearly exactly the same, along with the witty banter and other elements. Having enjoyed Lois & Clark far more now than when it was new, I found myself doing the same for The Shadow, the only difference being that one is a TV show and the other a feature film. I like it for what it is, not what it isn't.

You seem very put off by the camp elements, and I can understand that. As someone who is very much a fan of the old pulps, it is only natural that the camp would be seen as offensive. I myself have never read the old pulps. I admit to familiarity with The Shadow only because of this film, and because of Dave Stevens nodding to his character in the last three issues of his acclaimed comic book, The Rocketeer. Since then I have read about the pulps and sort of gotten an idea of what went on with them, how gritty they were, and how The Shadow sort of morphed into a hero with superpowers when he became a radio program...the latter of which seemed to be what this movie is based upon. The radio show seemed the better bet for the studio when making the film, as it seems to use the Batman formula to a degree with millionaire Lamont Cranston being The Shadow much like Bruce Wayne is Batman. In any case, it is understandable for someone who is a fan of the pulps to be disillusioned and critical of a film that played up to later versions of The Shadow, and in a campy sort of way. Maybe Sam Raimi, who is a fan of the original Shadow pulps and who has been attached to a new film, will some day be able to bring to the screen a version that is truer to the character that you so hope to see. Just a couple of debate points...

I also thought the scenes with Shiwan Kahn just talking to Lamont at the Sanctum and even the Chinese restaurant was overall ridiculous and dragged the movie...He could've just sneaked back in to either the Sanctum or Lamont's mansion and just killed him off without any issue.

I liked all of their exchanges. I really loved John Lone as Shiwan Khan, and his introduction to Lamont in the Inner Sanctum was fun. I enjoy the witty banter provided by screen writer David Koepp. In any case, you have to realize that Shiwan Khan knew that Cranston had great power and that picking him off wouldn't be that easy. You also have to recall that he wanted him as a partner in crime based on his adoration of the guy Cranston used to be. I also think that Khan was more focused on his big plan than he was on going after Cranston, which is a classic case of ego standing in the way of just getting rid of your opponent when you have the chance. I think it was important for Shiwan Khan to succeed while Cranston looked on, unable to stop him.

What made is worse was the score by Jerry Goldsmith. He's a great composer and I like work on other movies, but in the case of the Shadow I don't like it. It just doesn't cut it. It's not as memorable as it should have been and it doesn't sound that heroic or uplifting mixed with a sense of grim resolve. I feel that the movie was rushed and this played a role into why the movie just turned out badly.

I really like Jerry's music for the film. I bought the two disc score from Intrada and it really is a solid piece of work. I think your disappointment stems from the fact that the score is designed for a film you don't like to start with. Jerry Goldsmith is a master of weaving themes together throughout the body of a score, and The Shadow is certainly no exception. His score suited the resulting movie perfectly, it just wasn't the movie you were hoping for. Ergo, it is understandable that the score, while perfectly suited to the film, would not be to your liking.

Speaking of Batman 89, isn't it funny how most people liked it back then, but once a new version of Batman rolled around via Chris Nolan, it suddenly became hip to hate it! What's so hard about liking different takes and not just the latest? Why must fans be so fickle to start hating what they once liked just because something new is out? I grew up on the campy 60s show starring Adam West. When Batman 89 came out, I loved it very much and I still enjoyed the old TV series too. I still do. I will be buying it later this year when it finally comes out on Bluray. Batman Forever sort of reverted back to tongue in cheek camp that was a bit like the TV show in some ways. Some hated it and were put off by it, but I enjoyed it alright. It wasn't until Batman & Robin that it all became a parody of it's former self, insulting viewer intelligence along the way (much like season 3 of the old 60s show). I think Batman Forever balanced dark and campy themes rather well, just like The Shadow did. The only difference is that Batman is a household name and could get away with it, where as The Shadow was not and failed at the box office for it. All the more interesting that this was all in the same time frame as what I discussed earlier.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] war-path 10 years ago

War-path, you did a good job of articulating why you didn't enjoy the film, and even though I disagree with you on some points, I can appreciate where you are coming from and respect your point of view.

Greetings, SolarSailor. Thank you very much. I believe we can all agree to disagree and at least it's safe to do that on this board.

I never got the chance to see it in theaters, I wanted to when I saw the commercials on tv, but I was too young to see it. I did get the toys since I was very little and there was merchandise of The Shadow that tied in to the marketing of the movie. Thanks to that, I was always reminded about the character and when I was growing up I did my research on him and I was even more amazed and excited that he helped inspired the creation of Batman whom I was also a huge fan of. Due to all that, it was probably why I when I saw the movie much later on in my life when I got the dvd that I became so disappointed in it. For reasons that I already pointed out. Also, since I expected to be wowed like how Batman in his dark and gritty glory, I also don't like campiness in Batman like in the 60's tv show. In my case, I always took comic books/superheroes and their films seriously. Never to the point that I would seem to be ashamed that they are fictional, from comic books, and some of the things that happen can't actually happen in our reality. I remember the 90's Lois & Clark show. I thought it was pretty cool from what I could remember, even though I was never a huge Superman fan at all. I didn't notice any camp in it, I'm surprised there was. I thought the theme song was pretty cool for Superman. As for Peter Boyle since he has a penchant for hamming things up, he'll always be Wizard from Taxi Driver to me. Now that I think of it, Scorsese could've done a great job in directing a movie(s) about The Shadow.

It is true that because of the quirky and somewhat campy humor infused into this movie, that's why I thought it was somewhat disrespectful to the pulps and other comic book interpretations of the Shadow, but just as a movie alone, without comparing to anything that the Shadow derives from, the movie was still such a letdown. Yet again, as a movie in it's own right, it doesn't cut it for me due to the camp and quirky humor. Because of it, the movie felt so unsure of itself and was jarring to me. It made the experience boring and I guess it's probably me, but there was nothing intriguing about this movie. It felt like there was no passion at all in making the movie. The Rocketeer is cool, I love the movie despite it's box office flop. I don't know if The Shadow and Rocketeer ever actually teamed up in a comic book before, I've seen fanart that made me think it's happened before. But if it really did happen, that'd be awesome. A must read! You are right that the Shadow started off first as a mortal crime fighter without any powers. That was only later on in the radio version in order to intrigue the audiences because of the limitations of radio at the time where the listeners have to envision the action and all other things, in their minds. I think the movie tried to incorporate both pulp magazines and radio versions, but with more emphasis on the radio and in that, they got too carried away with it.

Maybe Sam Raimi, who is a fan of the original Shadow pulps and who has been attached to a new film, will some day be able to bring to the screen a version that is truer to the character that you so hope to see. Just a couple of debate points...

To be honest with you, I hate Sam Raimi's take of Spider-Man on the big screen. To me, his trilogy kind of had the same tone and feel to The Shadow 1994 movie. Therefore, I totally don't trust him being part of the remake/reboot of The Shadow movies. If he can prove me wrong, more power to him. But for now, I don't want him aboard. The Shadow 1994 movie felt like it was directed by him, sadly. But what these 2 movies(1st Spider-Man movie by Raimi and Mulcahy's Shadow movie) also have in common aside from the quirky and campy humor would be that they had David Koepp involved in their screenplays.

As for Shiwan Khan and his meeting with Cranston, I could understand why it happened. He'd rather have him as an ally than a foe and they both had similar powers. However, I still didn't like the way their dialogue was and more of my complaint was that once they both had their disagreements...Shiwan Khan could've actually snuck back to any one of Cranston's places and killed him without a problem by surprise. That's the impression I got seeing how he snuck into the Sanctum so easily.

As for Mr. Goldsmith's score on The Shadow, you are right that I wasn't going to like it because of the movie itself. I think it goes to show that the movie was pretty weak to begin with and it wasn't the best that Jerry Goldsmith had seen and it had an effect on the outcome of his score. It just wasn't astounding to me as it could have been. You are right through that whatever he put out, did fit nicely to the final product of the movie and therefore as I don't like the movie, it's no surprise I wouldn't like hearing the score either. I'm gonna put a link to one of his tracks from "The Ghost and the Darkness" for you to listen. At 2:28 is where things pick up and you get an epic tune going on that I would've liked to see for The Shadow movie(if it was done right). It shows how Jerry had potential, but if the movie wasn't going to meet him halfway through, neither would he. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkTKo6SFGGw

Speaking of Batman 89, isn't it funny how most people liked it back then, but once a new version of Batman rolled around via Chris Nolan, it suddenly became hip to hate it!

It's also very pitiful and disgusting how ungrateful so many people are out there. If it wasn't for the 89 movie, Batman as a dark, brooding gritty and intelligent narrative would be dead to the rest of the world and given cult like underground status to the fans of such a version of him. It's fine if people like the 60's Batman, even though I hate it with a passion, but it would be terrible if the rest of the world has that only view of Batman....that he is campy and they think it's true to the character. It's not. It's all about the gritty and brooding legacy, thats how he started and how he should be remembered overall. Just like The Shadow. You are definitely correct and hit the nail right on the head about how Batman Forever wasn't too much different from The Shadow 1994, and the irony in that one succeeded over the other. It's because Batman was already a household name and part of a movie series/franchise while The Shadow was still obscure to most of the world and therefore that contributed to it's downfall. Another irony is that The Shadow was one of the inspirations for the creation of Batman and that in the same time frame 1994/1995, Batman would still see brighter days from being more lighthearted/kid friendly with Forever on the big screen while The Shadow's first mainstream movie done in the same lighthearted approach would not do any wonders for it.

[–] Puvwall (1223) a year ago

I agree . Movies a gem

[–] lm362 (341) 5 months ago

Just watched it for the "one hundredth time", so to speak and I do love it also. I know Alec Baldwin is older, has had his problems, but I think he could still play The Shadow. It will be a good sequel movie if he really knows what to do, like he did here and makes sure that no one messes it up by his taking control of how it is made.

[–] Kowalski (59386) 5 months ago

I SAW THE SHADOW WITH MY GRANDMOTHER AND AUNT IN THE THEATER AND THEN ON VHS...AND NOT SINCE...I NEED TO REWATCH THE MOVIE SOON.