MovieChat Forums > Tombstone (1993) Discussion > A real-life line not used in the movie

A real-life line not used in the movie

posted 8 years ago by A_Real_Hip_Dude
24 replies | jump to latest

After looking through the post about why people liked Val Kilmer/Doc so much, I was thinking about the idea that people like Doc because he was so cool. Sometimes people will assume this is just Hollywood giving a polish, and it does happen, but there is plenty of evidence that Doc was a pretty cool guy in a very slick & smart-ass way.

There's a story of when there was some gambling going on and Johnny Behan was upset with Doc, who was, of course, drunk and saucy. Doc, in front of all assembled, told Behan that he should retire and go to his room, saying: "After all, you're only playing with money that I'd given your woman anyway."

Doc's biting witty-ness humiliated Behan, and it shows just what Doc was like to be around. It's very easy to envision Val Kilmer saying this line and I'm curious as to why it was never used in the movie.

[–] Bilwick1 8 years ago

Doc could have been just needling Johnny; but some writers think it may be an indication that Doc was at some point romantically involved with Josephine Marcus. Since Behan was something of a "player" (or "playa"), he could have had more than one woman Doc gave money, too, if Doc just wasn't being playful.

[–] Chloe1251 8 years ago

Isn't it thought that Josephine was a prostitute, even if only briefly?

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 8 years ago

There's theories on it, but none that are solidly substantiated that I've ever seen. A lot of it comes from her relatively wild/reckless ways. From what I recall it comes from something about her being in Tombstone and no longer with the performance troupe and needing income, or something along those lines. But I wouldn't know whether it's true or not, and not sure if anyone knows for sure. And I think it's pretty well known that Josephine's best skill was at covering up the past, and keeping secrets hidden during her lifetime.

[–] Bilwick1 8 years ago

I've heard the Josie-as-prostie theory, and there was a very interesting article about it in either WILD WEST or TRUE WEST a couple of years ago; but I forget what documentation, if any, the writer(s) presented. Part of their thesis hinged on Josie coming from--not wealth as commonly believed and as the movie indicated--but from poor Jews who lived in a slummy part of San Francisco where a lot of young Jewish women fell into prostitution. A few years back I belonged to an online discussion group devoted to the movie, and someone in the group said that in the town of Tombstone, in the restored Bird Cage Theater, the prostitute's license issued to Josephine Marcus and signed by Chief of Police Virgil Earp is on display. It all sounded too pat and conveeeenient (as Dana Carvey's Church Lady used to say), and I asked what evidence the document was authentic, but no one had anything to say about that except, "Surely the good folks at the Bird Cage Theater wouldn't invent something like that!"

It's interesting to me that in the Josie biography LADY AT THE OK CORRAL by Ann Kirschner (well worth reading), the author doesn't show any evidence that Josie was "on the line," and Ms. Kirschner is a fairly critical biographer.

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 8 years ago

I think its safe to say that anything that comes from the town of Tombstone is best regarded with definite aprehension. Very ture about the license seeming convenient.

[–] bobbiekaye69 8 years ago

I don't doubt that Josephine Marcus worked as a prostitute at some point, but not under her given name. Johnnie Behan was involved with a prostitute in Tucson, I believe, named Sadie Markham, or something to that effect. It seems very likely that she was actually Josephine "Sadie" Marcus.

And later in life, she did work extremely hard to hide the facts of that time in her life from biographers. I'll bet the majority of boomtown women in those days, at some point in their lives, worked as prostitutes. Several of the Earp women certainly did.

And times being what they were, it is certainly understandable.

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 8 years ago

Good point about Sadie Markham. I'd heard about that before but never really thought about the prostitute connection.

Additionally keeping in mind that during the Victorian era women weren't to be in the presence of drinking and gambling, so in these towns where that was everywhere, wives were almost strictly stay-at-home. And conversely, if a woman was known to be around the saloons and the men coming in and out of them, then she was either a whore, or willing to wear the label of one since she wasn't regarded to have the class or self-respect to stay away.

Not a lot of good choices there: whoring or staying indoors all day doing laundry.

[–] bobbiekaye69 8 years ago

If my only choices were prostitution or laundry, I might actually choose the former!

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Bilwick1 8 years ago

I give good suds.

[–] Chloe1251 8 years ago

Not a lot of good choices there: whoring or staying indoors all day doing laundry.

Rising at dawn, doing laundry (scrubbing board and lye soap), cooking, cleaning, canning, sewing and having one baby after another. I'm with bobbiekaye - I pick the former.

[–] bobbiekaye69 8 years ago

You got it, Chloe! At least sex can be enjoyed sometimes! Laundry, I never enjoy that!

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Chloe1251 8 years ago

Laundry, I never enjoy that!

Laundry is bad enough, never mind the ironing. Just not my thing. I'd rather get paid to have sex.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 8 years ago

Based on what I know about prostitution, you wouldn't feel that way for long.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

[–] bobbiekaye69 8 years ago

Could it really be worse than laundry? 😉

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 8 years ago

Ask me again after you've spent a week giving oral sex to strangers.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

[–] bobbiekaye69 8 years ago

I've never done that with a stranger, but it's something I'm darned good at!

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Bilwick1 8 years ago

Me, too!

[–] cathaven97 8 years ago

Ask me again after you've spent a week giving oral sex to strangers.

No thanks. I bow to your superior knowledge of that activity and concede that I guess I'd rather do laundry.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 7 years ago

Congratulations- but don't forget, it's possible to suck at laundry, too.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

[–] cathaven97 7 years ago

but don't forget, it's possible to suck at laundry, too.

I said I'd rather do it, not that I'm good at it. 

[–] KutWrite (1220) 4 years ago

I just read, too, that Josie's un-preferred nickname was, indeed "Sadie."

Later in their relationship, Wyatt would taunt her by calling her "Sadie."

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 8 years ago

But don't you agree that Val Kilmer relaying that line would have come off very memorably? Though I would imagine that the reason for not using that line is to not have too much crossover of rivalries that could end up confusing an audience. Just a guess though.

[–] Chloe1251 8 years ago

But don't you agree that Val Kilmer relaying that line would have come off very memorably?

It's a great line, but - IMO - I don't see how it has any relevance to the story. We'd already seen the increasing antagonism between Behan and Wyatt. If someone wants to get in every detail of the whole story, they'd end up with something like Costner's interminable "Wyatt Earp" snoozefest. As we learned from that movie, we really don't need to see everything. Josie was important to Wyatt for sure, but she doesn't figure hugely in "Tombstone" which picks the gunfight and aftermath as its main focus.

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 8 years ago

Yeah, I agee, thats why I say that I figure it probably crosses over too many antagonizing rivalries, and it most likely wouldnt really be advancing the story. Still one of my facorite real life Doc quotes though!