MovieChat Forums > Ba wang bie ji (1993) Discussion > Why kill himself years later?

Why kill himself years later?


I was just wondering why Douzi killed himself at the end of the opera (the last scene of the movie)?
Was it b/c he was confronted with the ambiguity of his gender? That he really does feel he is forever the concubine and must fulfill it?

And why he would kill himself years after the revolution when Shitou betrayed him?? Like wasn't he offended even tho he betrayed him later about his wife? And if he managed to forgive him, then why would he kill himself when he finally got Shitou all to himself since Shitou's wife killed herself?

Those q's are just cuz it kinda got muddy and i didn't really fully understand why he did what he did. it's been bugging me so if ya share your interpretations that would be great. thanks.

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well he didn't kill himself actually. You can tell by XiaoLou's smile. It was just good acting.

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but not in the book.( I just finished reading it) In the film, you can clearly hear Dieyi's body hitting the floor- It was more than good acting, my friend. He was dead. The smile on Xiaolou's face was not indicative of Dieyi having only been acting- He smiled that slight smile because he knew that Dieyi lived and died for the opera. Dieyi spent his entire life obsessing over the opera because it was all he'd ever known. His suicide was bittersweet for Xiaolou (hence the smile) because he understood why Dieyi chose to kill himself. They were old by that time and unable to perform as they once had- Dieyi felt such divine love in that final performance with Xiaolou that he wanted to end his life that way. He was 'faithful to the King unto death.'

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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thanks for clearing up. i thought he could of end his life sooner and he could of choose a more appropriate time to die. Ending his life 11 years after the turmoil in China is just too weird.

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about Dieyi's life after The Cultural Revolution. He continued performing although he was aging and couldn't perform the way he once did. Since he knew nothing but opera, he did stick with that path but there is one passage in the book where he is actually being laughed at because he was far too old to still be playing a dan.

In regard to the final scene in the film, you have to remember that until that point, Dieyi and Xiaolou hadn't even laid eyes on one another for over 11 years and hadn't performed together for over 20. I think the reunion for Dieyi, was so bittersweet that he chose to end his life in that moment. Both he and Xiaolou knew by that point that they'd never be able to perform together again as they once had and Dieyi had never truly known happiness outside of what he felt for Xiaolou. He'd lived the majority of his life as Concubine Yu and wanted to die as she did, in faithful adoration of the King.

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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OMG why does everyone ask that question? Okay, picture yourself as Douzi, well, at least try to put ypurself in his shoes, if you had gone through even half the stuff he was forced to go thru ever since he was a little child, wouldn't your outlook on that miserable life be a little dim? if i had to live Douzi's life, i probably would've killed myself a long time ago

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I havent read the book but the film was so sad... I still wonder why did Dieyi kill himself but many thanks to the others who gave their analysis. I watched this film when I was very young and it has remained in my memory since. Leslie was superb in his role, and I do wonder what Chen Kaige meant when he said Leslie was living that role...

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Although what some of you proposed as the reason for 'killing himself' are interesting, I do find some of them rather romantic, like a desire to escape the injustice of the world. That is a very Western view of suiceide. I think the most probable reason is that when Dieyi was told by his partner that he made a mistake on stage, he felt compelled to kill himself. He was a perfectionist to the very end, and after realizing that that he made the same mistake as the one when he was a child, he killed himself.

My current YMDB top 20:
http://www.ymdb.com/ottffsse-sequence/l30901_ukuk.html

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I seriously think that being the overly-dramatic perfectionist that Dieyi was, he wanted the most perfect and dramatized death, all his life, hadn't he obssessed over the role of the COncubine and attempted to live like her? Toward the end he became more and more like the concubine, confusing his own identity. The real world had no place for such a person. But the reason why he killed himself AFTER all those years was because, imo, Dieyi's perfect death had to be on stage, when he's in the role of teh concubine. He and Xiaolou only had the chance to perform together after those years, when the Cultural Revolution was over. It was only then he he could execute his death. In that one last act, he finally became the Concubine.

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ITA with you. And although I loved the book, I much prefer the theatrical ending.

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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In the history , YuJi killed herself for BaWang . In real life , DieYi killed himself for XiaoLou, DieYi becomes the only YuJi of BaWang.

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i am Chinese so might easy for me to understand little bit more about this movie.

if you really wanna fully understand the movie, guess u need to know Chinese culture...or else might be quite confusing.

death is just a beginning, by killking himself...he draw a beautiful circle..that's the perfect way to finish the story.

he choose death coz he wanna show how firmly he believe in his faith...and his passion for arts & love as well.

guess i will do the same thing.

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[deleted]

I really do wonder why there needs to be so many 'well, im chinese so i understand the film whereas you non-chinese cannot possibly' comments on these boards.

Obviously either being chinese or being very familiar with chinese tradition, culture and ways of thinking can help in understanding the intricacies of such a film. But the overiding themes of the film are surely universal? And the style of film seems to owe as much to classical hollywood storytelling as it does chinese cinema. Quite frankly your post only emphasises this point as it merely repeats the opinions of what many (likely non-chinese) people have just posted - namely that Douzi kills himself as a result of his obsession with his art.

I'm sorry, I don't mean for this to be a personal attack in any way, I just found the tone of this - and some previous postings i'd seen on this and other films - at least a little patronising, if not downright offensive.

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Maybe when he was posting on message boards he didn't put Spoiler warnings, so his conscience got to him.

~faith in chaos~

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[deleted]

If you are going to reveal the ending of the movie in your post, please write "Spoiler" in the subject line, so as not to ruin the ending. Don't write the actual spoiler in the subject line, just the word "Spoiler"

Anyway, it is obvious why Douzi kills himself, because Concubine Yu kills herself in the play when the enemy (the Han) are about to get her and the King of Chu, so that she could die alongside her beloved King. She would rather die than be taken advantage of by the enemy. Douzi identified so much with Concubine Yu, that he also wanted to die alongside his beloved Shi-tou.

Remember that they hadn't performed the play since the Communists got to them, for eleven years, until the ending of the movie. That means it was Douzi's first opportunity (after the "enemy" defeated them) to see the play through to the suicide at the end.

"Enough of that technical talk, Foo!"

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I think there are many levels as to the reason Dieyi killed himself, just as the film itself can be appreciated at many levels. Narrative-wise, according to the book, Dieyi waited 11 years because they were sent to correction camps to do hard labor. Their last performance was the first time they reunited. This was confusing because Dieyi and Xiaolou appeared to have been released by the Red Guards in the film.

As to why Dieyi didn’t commit suicide earlier, I think the Cultural Revolution was the biggest turning point in his life. It was the first time that the art of opera was condemned by the ruling regime. Moreover, not only did Dieyi and Xiaolou betrayed each other during the Red Guard denouncement, they also came closest to confronting their ambiguous relationship (this was the first time Xiaolou revealed how he felt about Dieyi sleeping with Yuan), and lashing out with years of pent-up pain caused by earlier betrayals.

Juxian remained loyal to Xiaolou through the Red Guard ordeal, and her suicide demonstrated how much she loved Xiaolou. I agree with an earlier poster that Juxian had somewhat usurp Dieyi’s concubine role. Dieyi felt guilty for pushing her to her death, and he would certainly think that he failed to measure up to what Juxian could do for Xiaolou in that incident. Overall, it was not difficult to imagine how hard the traumatic experience of the Cultural Revolution had hit Dieyi.

Dieyi’s and Xiaolou’s reunification was bittersweet. From a very young age, Dieyi had fed on Xiaolou’s gentleness and loyalty for him. But now, Dieyi had come to face the reality that Xiaolou could never return his love. For years, Dieyi tried to survive a life of suffering caused by different things beyond his control. Now, he decided to take fate into his own hands.

Dieyi had been the happiest when he played Yuji opposite of Xiaolou before Juxian came. After they went their separate ways, Dieyi transferred his passion for Xiaolou to the Peking opera, living in a lie and state of denial. Dieyi had continued to believe that Xiaolou, who always protected him, was truly his Ba Wang, but Xiaolou gradually became a coward who finally betrayed him. When Xiaolou joked about how he couldn’t perform as he did before, Dieyi realized that they could never return to the happy days when he believed he would always be Xiaolou’s Yuji. He had woken up from his dream.

So Dieyi decided to give his final, perfect performance, choosing to end his drama in the way he wanted- on the stage that had increasingly become his life, performing the art he loved, beside the man he loved. By dying as “Ba Wang’s” lover, Dieyi could finally embody the role that he most wanted to play but could never play in real life.

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by mwk06;

"I think there are many levels as to the reason Dieyi killed himself,"

Agreed, and I think you have explained many of those reasons very well.

"Juxian remained loyal to Xiaolou through the Red Guard ordeal, and her suicide demonstrated how much she loved Xiaolou. I agree with an earlier poster that Juxian had somewhat usurp Dieyi’s concubine role."

This is part of what I also believed.
Juxian is the third part of the love triangle. She was Dieyi’s rival (in his mind) for who loved Xiaolou more.
When Juxian was dead, then Dieyi had clarity about his love. To die would match Juxian's commitment to Xiaolou.

- On top of this when Juxian was alive, Dieyi dying would allow Juxian to have Xiaolou all to herself.
In that scenario, Juxian would "win" so to speak.
- But Juxian was dead, and Dieyi did not have to worry any longer about a rivalry.

* But those are just some of the possible motivations for the final death scene.
Dieyi could also have felt guilty about Juxian's death.
And it was their last performance so a final chance to be what he believed, that he was the concubine.

And more reasons could be imagined in this very good/complex film.

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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I see a few here have said this aleady but **** Thank you **** so much for giving away the ending ....

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For real this was just rude of you

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