MovieChat Forums > Mortal Thoughts (1991) Discussion > Who killed Cynthia's husband and why?

Who killed Cynthia's husband and why?


I never could figure out if it was Joyce or Cynthia.

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I never could figure out if it was Joyce or Cynthia.


I think Cynthia killed both husbands. She killed James because he tried to rape her and she killed her own husband Arthur when he threw her out, threatened to divorce her, take their kids, and expose her part in James' murder. I think everything she said was true except that she killed both men.

What's wrong? What did that creepy, good-looking bastard do?-- Kate/FSoG
Poor, fvcked-up, kinky, philanthropic Christian.-- Ana/FSoG
A mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it.-- Bruce Wayne/Batman Returns
But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it.-- Selina Kyle/Batman Returns

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Except that Joyce took the gun from their house.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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So says the liar... I'm not sure Cynthia gave Joyce the gun. Cynthia probably lied to the detectives about giving Joyce the gun just like she lied about Jimmy's murder. Of course this is only speculation since the film doesn't show this. I'm gonna rent this film on dvd and see if there is a director's commentary and if there is hopefullt it'll clear up some of these questions.

What's wrong? What did that creepy, good-looking bastard do?-- Kate/FSoG
Poor, fvcked-up, kinky, philanthropic Christian.-- Ana/FSoG
A mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it.-- Bruce Wayne/Batman Returns
But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it.-- Selina Kyle/Batman Returns

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the dvd i have doesn't have a commentary.

But, don't you think that Joyce would have felt that the gun wasn't in the stocking? She would have been right back to Cynthia's, or not left, in the state that she was in. plus, when she tells Arthur to be well, she is pointing the stocking at him as one would a gun (foreshadowing).



Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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the dvd i have doesn't have a commentary.

But, don't you think that Joyce would have felt that the gun wasn't in the stocking? She would have been right back to Cynthia's, or not left, in the state that she was in. plus, when she tells Arthur to be well, she is pointing the stocking at him as one would a gun (foreshadowing).


I just watched that scene again... and you might be right. The seed of doubt has definitely been planted. I just don't understand why Joyce would be so worried. Cynthia was the one who killed Jimmy, cleaned out the van, etc. There was never any communication between Arthur and Joyce. He never threatened her. So, it seems odd that Joyce would be so worried about Arthur. Cynthia on the other hand had alot to worry about where Arthur was concerned. I think Cynthia exaggerated Joyce's actions and reactions to make Joyce look guilty to the detectives.

What's wrong? What did that creepy, good-looking bastard do?-- Kate/FSoG
Poor, fvcked-up, kinky, philanthropic Christian.-- Ana/FSoG
A mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it.-- Bruce Wayne/Batman Returns
But a kiss can be even deadlier if you mean it.-- Selina Kyle/Batman Returns

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Arthur didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. This is why Joyce was so paranoid about him and DID conisder him a threat. The things he said to her the last time he saw her cemented the fact that she was going to have to kill him.

Plus, she also knew if Cynthia got caught, her days were numbered as well, because she was an accessory to James' murder by getting rid of his body and then covering everything up.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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[deleted]

Sanchez, this is why I believe that Joyce killed Arthur

I think The Detective was playing on Cynthia's sympathies with the orphan line trying to get to her maternal instincts. I think he just wanted the truth. He already planted in Cynthia's head that he knew she did it "Tell me a lie, Cynthia". If she was telling the story as Joyce killed James and Arthur, then Joyce is screwed for being a cold blooded killer.

But the truth was that Cynthia killed James in self defense because he attempted to rape her, and then Joyce killed Arthur not in retaliation for James, but because she perceived Arthur as a threat through her paranoia and by reason of insanity. Remember in the shop Joyce said that sometimes she thinks she hears James calling her - "Hey, Joycie...", and she had attempted to slit her wrists and her paranoia would give her the insanity defense. She was truly going insane -- the most telling in the shop the night of the wake -- which led to Arthur's death. There was no one there to put the "crazy act" on for, except Cynthia. You can see in Joyce's eyes that she really does believe she hears him, thus my conclusion that she is on a slow descent into insanity. Time has passed since James's death, there would have been an autopsy after James was found, enough time for Joyce to start unraveling. At this point Joyce has become detached.

By the time she gets to Cynthia's to get the gun back, it was to protect herself from her in-laws, not to kill Arthur. But, as things rolled along in that visit, it became clear to Joyce she had to do away with Arthur.

That whole tet a tet between Arthur and Joyce is interesting and well played. She oh-so subtly tells Arthur who really killed James with one simple cut of the eyes towards Cynthia coming down the stairs - chilling. You could see at this point her wheels are already turning with regard to the hapless Arthur.

But, notice after she is handed the gun from Cynthia in the paper bag, it's pointing right at Arthur (foreshadowing). And now her comment to Cynthia outside the house. "That phuque! He thinks he knows something!!!!" Then Cynthia tells her that Arthur knows, fueling Joyce's delusions even more. She TELLS Cynthia she will get Arthur, her and her children. Cynthia now starts avoiding Joyce. Joyce confronts her on the phone about her avoidance, she is taking it as an afront and betrayal. She asks about Arthur, if he's home to which Cynthia innocently gives her the answer, "Yes," also letting her know not to start with Arthur, he won't take her crap. Joyce replies, "You dont' understand, I'm not going to START with Arthur, I'm going to FINISH with him!" Cynthia never thought that Joyce would do anything to harm Arthur, but she was wrong. By this time, Joyce has spiraled out of control full blown. She goes to the Kellog's house and kills Arthur.

The Detective knows Cynthia killed James. He has just figured that part out during Cynthia's interrogation. He couldn't prove it, but he wanted her to confess (of course, he doesn't know about the attempted rape, but he already has an inkling that James would sexually abuse Cynthia through her interview with him.) He had known all along that Joyce killed Arthur. I think this is what trips everyone up with regard to who killed Arthur. We find out as shock value, but The Detective has known all along. We don't know the details of Joyce's arrest -- was she arrested at the Kellog's with a smoking gun in her hand, or at her apartment with the gun still in her possession...we don't know. One thing we can deduce is that Joyce would still have the gun out of fear of her in-laws.

More importantly, the coroner would have determined the time Arthur died, so this in itself would have excluded Cynthia from committing the murder because of corraboration from her family that she was at the mother's house with her children, drunk and asleep at the time of Arthur's murder. Also, this interrogation is being conducted a while after Arthur's murder, so we would allow time for the autopsy, funeral and investigation.

The flashback in Cynthia's car is for our benefit. She already knows the details and she is pissed off at Joyce for killing Arthur. Joyce might not have cared at all if James was dead, but Cynthia truly loved Arthur and this is why she's pinning the murder of both men on Joyce, out of anger. Remember the look she give Joyce in passing while she is leaving the interrogation room -- pure anger.

She goes back to the precinct because it's the right thing to do, anger aside it is her duty to tell the truth, and now she's ready. Remember throughout this, she tells Joyce, "I don't think we're doing the right thing..." She wanted to get James to the hospital, but it was Joyce who insisted on letting him die, getting rid of the body and lying to everyone about it, straining her marriage and ruining her friendshp with Joyce. She was a victim all around within this story.

Above is how I justify my conclusion that Joyce -- not Cynthia -- killed Arthur.


So, Cynthia can get off on a self defense and Joyce might get off by reason of insanity and no kiddies are orphans. The other way around -- Cynthia's Version -- Joyce is then killer, sent to prison for killing two men in cold blood, leaving her son and unborn child (if she didn't abort)orphans, and Cynthia is scott free to live the rest of her life with guilt.

Whewww!

Make sense, Sanchez?




Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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Whoever killed Cynthia's husband, Arthur got what he deserved anyway.

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It was Joyce. You all should watch the movie again. Cynthia told Arthur that Joyce killed Jimmy. It's obvious that Cynthia didn't tell him what really happened. Joyce was scared that Arthur was going to tell the police and they would believe him and not the real story. So that's why Joyce killed him. Cynthia killed her husband, she will kill her husband.

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[deleted]

Whoever killed Cynthia's husband, Arthur got what he deserved anyway.


Whatssamattahwichuuuuuu?????


I always here John Pankow saying this when she comes home with blood all over her....LOL.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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It's not clear at all.

either:
1. Cynthia killed him because he knew the truth, and went to her parents to cover it up. (or even because he thought Joyce did it, and wanted to go to the police - where the truth would be revealed).

or

2. Joyce killed him because Cynthia led him to believe that she (Joyce) had killed Jimmy.

We don't have a good idea of Joyce's state of mind because all of Joyce's antics are from Cynthia's story to the police, which we know not to be true because it is based on Joyce stabbing Jimmy.

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Joyce DID kill Jimmy --- she didnt' take him to the hospital but left him to die in a swamp. Cynthia would have been cleard of the assualt if they had taken him to the hospital and he had gotten the help he needed. She would have explained that he tried to rape her. He was still alive when Joyce came into the picture.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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I think people are thinking too hard about a movie. Chill out. Its a movie, not real life to come to a board and argue over. LOL! It was meant for to get confused on who did what. Isn't that what a mystery is? No matter how many say who did what, the truth is still out there and who knows we all could be right, because the movie was made for both women to be the killers not just one. I could care less who did who. I just enjoyed the movie. All these posts and for what? No reason for a headache over a movie.

I am a gore watching freak!!!

If it don't have it, it isn't worth the watch.

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