Tarantino's films are great - but he should take notes on this film. - Miller's Crossing (1990) Discussion

[–] McGonigle 11 years ago

Tarantino couldn't create a film this good on his best day. There isn't a single wasted (or unimportant) line of dialogue in "Miller's Crossing". Tarantino would have to add an hour to the running time by having the gangsters talk at length about radio serials or whatever movie they saw most recently.

I know I'm shouting, I like to shout.

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[–] kduffy-8 11 years ago

Out of all the films I've seen - and I've seen many- I can't think of one that surpasses this on all levels. I feel it's somewhat of a masterpiece.
I saw this in the cinema when it first came out and have worn out VHS tapes galore before getting it on disc. Repeated viewings don't dampen its impact.
I really like Tarantino but I don't think he could do something this amazing.

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[–] rogerscorpion 8 years ago

My friend---lament no more. Miller's Crossing has been released on DVD.
I agree with so many of you---that this is the Coens' finest film.
I also saw in in its original theatrical run. The music. The costumes. The dialogue. the atmosphere. All were magnificent.

Carpe Noctem!

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[–] SalvadorDaLee 11 years ago

Wow. That's purely subjective. The two parties are both dialog driven, but in a completely different way. Many people love the added hour of dialog if it's well done. And an example would be Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction. His dialog feels so natural. You don't have to like it, but don't say that his films are nowhere near as good as this one. You are really flawed in that sense. Many people don't see the characters in his films talking about movies or music as a waste. I saw it as a breath of fresh air as did most critics and audience members. His point was that gangsters don't always talk about gangster stuff. The way his characters spoke in Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were the opposite of forced. I think you might just be a hater.

And to the OP, that's purely up to you. Quentin Tarantino's films aren't mature enough? Simple, then don't watch it. He said his films are all part comedy. Maybe you should find out a little context on him.

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[–] pancev 10 years ago

Wow. That's purely subjective. The two parties are both dialog driven, but in a completely different way. Many people love the added hour of dialog if it's well done. And an example would be Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction. His dialog feels so natural.

I don't think many MC fans will find dialogues in these two movies to be boring or forced. It's the movies like Inglourious Basterds that makes you feel that way. Anyway, even though Reservoir Dogs is one of my favorite movies, it's just not as good as Miller's Crossing is, dialogues or characters wise.

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[–] mobocracy 9 years ago

Reservoir Dogs comes the closest of all. I think partly because it was a straight-up gangster/heist story without the crazy, almost surreal embellishments of his later work and partly because it was his first feature, which forced him to be a little bit more conventional in his direction.

To be fair, if you reverse the criticism and take on the Coen Brothers, Miller's Crossing is as good as Reservoir Dogs because it's one of their most conventional films and it suppresses the urge to deconstruct the narrative with a bunch of their smarter-than-you hipsterism.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

That´d be useless - no matter what QT might attempt, out would still come some lethargic babblefest where all the 1930´s Irish gangsters talk the SoCal hipster patter a la Jules Winfield from Inglewood. And there´d be lots of bare feet.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] kduffy-8 11 years ago

And there´d be lots of bare feet.

I just spit out my soda. Never wear open toed shoes to a Tarantino premiere!!

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[–] simbob4000 11 years ago

scottishjimmy
I think Tarantino is an excellent writer and director so I'm not going to compare The Coens with QT - both have different styles of writing and directing great movies. But I would love to see Quentin Tarantino tackling this type of script and direction. For the age the Coens were when they wrote this script it's simply masterful how they managed to write this film and direct it. QT should take notes and try to come up with the same maturity of writing that this film has (although Inglorious Basterds and Jackie Brown came close). I wonder how this film slipped through the cracks because I believe this film to be one of the best films I have ever watched.

Really...how is Miller's Crossing more mature? It's a great movie, but it's also a comical gangster movie in much the same style as De Palma's The Untouchables.

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[–] SeanJoyce 11 years ago

Never EVER compare Miller's Crossing to The Untouchables.

The former is a cerebral gangster film deliberately done in the hardboiled style of Hammet and Chandler (indeed, it's the most direct adaptation of "Red Harvest".)

The latter is popcorn smothered in cheese, further undone by its bland cornstalk of a lead.

http://jmoneyyourhoney.filmaf.com/owned

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[–] simbob4000 11 years ago

SeanJoyce
Never EVER compare Miller's Crossing to The Untouchables.

The former is a cerebral gangster film deliberately done in the hardboiled style of Hammet and Chandler (indeed, it's the most direct adaptation of "Red Harvest".)

The latter is popcorn smothered in cheese, further undone by its bland cornstalk of a lead.

I wouldn't compare the two if they weren't so much alike. The tone and style of Miller's Crossing is very much like that of The Untouchables; hell, almost as a further nod to De Palma the attack on Leo in his room is right out of De Palma's own Scarface.

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[–] SeanJoyce 11 years ago

The Untouchables is for children.

Miller's Crossing is for adults.

http://jmoneyyourhoney.filmaf.com/owned

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[–] simbob4000 11 years ago

SeanJoyce
The Untouchables is for children.

Miller's Crossing is for adults.

Yeah, I get it, you really love Miller's Crossing...the movie that's tonally the same as The Untouchables.

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[–] SeanJoyce 11 years ago

Again, you vacuous pinhead, the former is a cerebral gangster film deliberately done in the hardboiled style of Hammet and Chandler. It deliberately parodies and simulataneously evokes its milieu. The latter is fodder for the less-inititated. It's perverts history by dumbing it down for the masses and turning it into an underdog story. Miller's Crossing is propelled by rapid, ornate dialogue and a dark, expressionistic (film noir) style, The Untouchables is an action movie disguised as a cautionary tale. The former's denouement is a quiet but effective schism between two former best friends, accompanied by a beautiful, robust score. The latter is an eye-gouging building stand-off where a cartoon bad guy is hurled screaming from a roof by a bland do-gooder protagonist, accompanied by amateurish CGI and an intrusive score.

The two couldn't be more tonally or thematically dissimilar. The Untouchables is fine for what it is, but again, never confuse it with a film like Miller's Crossing.

Unless, of course, you can tell me just what these two films happen to share in common besides general time periods and stylized, over-the-top gunfire.

http://jmoneyyourhoney.filmaf.com/owned

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[–] simbob4000 11 years ago

SeanJoyce
Again, you vacuous pinhead, the former is a cerebral gangster film deliberately done in the hardboiled style of Hammet and Chandler. It deliberately parodies and simulataneously evokes its milieu. The latter is fodder for the less-inititated. It's perverts history by dumbing it down for the masses and turning it into an underdog story. Miller's Crossing is propelled by rapid, ornate dialogue and a dark, expressionistic (film noir) style, The Untouchables is an action movie disguised as a cautionary tale. The former's denouement is a quiet but effective schism between two former best friends, accompanied by a beautiful, robust score. The latter is an eye-gouging building stand-off where a cartoon bad guy is hurled screaming from a roof by a bland do-gooder protagonist, accompanied by amateurish CGI and an intrusive score.

The two couldn't be more tonally or thematically dissimilar. The Untouchables is fine for what it is, but again, never confuse it with a film like Miller's Crossing.

Unless, of course, you can tell me just what these two films happen to share in common besides general time periods and stylized, over-the-top gunfire.

That's got to be one of the funniest attempts at name calling I've ever seen, was it meant to be ironic? Here a lesson, you can't be insulting while intentionally being a bitch.

The whole style and sense of humor is the same in both film, the jokes in one wouldn't be out of place in the other, the same goes for the action. And they're both f^cking cartoons, Miller's Crossing is a f^cking cartoon...that in no way means it's bad,(it's a great movie) but it is a cartoon.

CGI, how old are you? Just because it's a compositing shot doesn't mean it's CGI. I wouldn't say that bit of score is intrusive, the score seems to be being used as a joke there; a throwback to more light hearted fare juxtaposed along with what followed

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[–] SeanJoyce 11 years ago

Jokes...boy's got jokes.

Here's a (cruel) joke: Your dad once had to make the fateful and calamitous decision of choosing between a bottle of wine and a box of condoms. Guess what he went with?

http://jmoneyyourhoney.filmaf.com/owned

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] scarlettbees 11 years ago

I don't suppose you could like both Miller's Crossing AND The Untouchables, could you? And I don't suppose you could admire both the Coens AND Tarantino, could you?

No, of course not. What's the fun in that?

There's no reason for QT to study up on filmmaking, because he's already a brilliant filmmaker who's made groundbreaking movies, just like the Coens. They have different styles of writing, different styles of directing. There's room for all of it. Pick your poison.

I like'em both. I will go out of my way to see the any of the films of these men.

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[–] dbrockskk1 11 years ago

wow! a real jr high kid! bring it on!

suzycreamcheese RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

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[–] Hancockenstein 10 years ago

good one bro.

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[–] ethermusic1981 8 years ago

"That's got to be one of the funniest attempts at name calling I've ever seen,"

Well, it gave me a good belly-laugh, that's for sure. But not for the same reason you're saying it's funny. It simply was funny! Zing!

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[–] Absoluteg0 11 years ago

You're not wrong, you're just an *beep*

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[–] ethermusic1981 8 years ago

"Again, you vacuous pinhead,"

Hahaha I laughed out loud at this. :)

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[–] Robbmonster 11 years ago

I love The Untouchables as an entertainment, but there isn't a thought-provoking moment in it, and DeNiro's Al Capone is the lamerst, most ineffectual villain in cinema history. Seriously, think about what the character actually DOES in the movie.

If you think Miller's Crossing and The Untouchables are anything alike, you really need to watch them both back to back.

Never defend crap with "It's just a movie"
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds

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[–] kpocala 10 years ago

Gawd, thank you!

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[–] Ironman54 9 years ago

Well, for starters, no one makes jokes about the mentally retarded in 'Millers Crossing' ...

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[–] Naughty-God 11 years ago

QT doesn't tackle genres outside of his own vision which right now seems to be self-indulgent homages to B-cinema he hopes or somehow knows most young movie goers are unfamiliar with. Maybe that's why I grew tired of his schlock after Kill Bill Vol. 2 and his over-use of original film scores because I've seen most of the movies he's lifted these scores from. I find it annoying and redundant for someone of his caliber after he made "Jackie Brown".

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[–] ethermusic1981 8 years ago

"QT doesn't tackle genres outside of his own vision which right now seems to be self-indulgent homages to B-cinema"

Isn't that what he's always made? I love Pulp Fiction as much as the next guy, but even that film is one long homage infused with some of Tarantino's infamous snip snip snappy dialogue. (Dialogue that, once again, includes a healthy dose of the word *beep* Yeah...)

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[–] highway_demon_77 11 years ago

Altough all Coen films are fine, I've never been a dedicated fan of the Coen brothers. But Miller's Crossing is definitely a masterpiece. This and GoodFellas are my favourite Gangster flicks. And when it comes to camerawork and editing there are few movies which come close.

I love The Untouchables, it's one my childhood faves. But it is not compareable to Miller's Crossing. They have a similar look like all films set in the times of the Prohibition. That's the only thing they have in common, they are totally different in terms of plot and structure.

And about Tarantino

Tarantino couldn't create a film this good on his best day.

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[–] ElMaruecan82 11 years ago

Granted you hate De Palma (or you pity the fool) but it's not like he made only lousy pictures. Let's assume "Miller's Crossing" is superior to "The Untouchables" but that doesn't diminish the merit of De Palma's film on the field of old-fashioned and laughable entertainment? Maybe "Miller's Crossing" is better designed and better written, but its strength can be its very flaw, maybe it feels too designed, too written... like a movie.

By the way, it's not like De Palma only made the films you mentioned, how about "Carlito's Way"? How about "Scarface"? the dialogs in "Scarface" aren't as snappy as in "Miller's Crossings", but Oliver Stone created one hell of a character, Tony Montana, a true icon, even a hater can't deny the significance of "Scarface" as a gangster flick, it might even be the consummate gangster film, no matter how 'superior' the slower-paced and more introspective "Miller's Crossing", "Road to Perdition" or "Once Upon a Time in America" are.

Sure both Tarantino and De Palma should take notes but at least, each one had a film in the American Film Institute's Top 10 gangster movies.

"Darth Vader is scary and I The Godfather"

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] ElMaruecan82 11 years ago

I know, I know ... some directors are more consistent than others. I give you that.

"Darth Vader is scary and I The Godfather"

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[–] ethermusic1981 8 years ago

Scarface is a terrible film.

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[–] kpocala 10 years ago

It probably is one of the best films, "Ever", but Tarantino watched it and paid homage to it in Kill Bill. The section on "O-Ren Ishii", when the she revenged her father, then rolled off the bed and shot the two bodyguards. Obvious homage. Tarantino "mentor", metaphorically, was Sergio Leone, but he's always quick to tip his hat ;)

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[–] drella15 9 years ago

Cinder-block-head Tarantino should go back to where he belongs. Working as a clerk in a video store.

Wrote "The Gopspel Of Elvis", a Bible parody

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