MovieChat Forums > The War of the Roses (1989) Discussion > Oliver was a Terrible husband to Barbara

Oliver was a Terrible husband to Barbara


A lot of posters on here seem to think Barbara was a cold hearted b*tch who was totally asinine for demanding a divorce. But apparently they were not paying any attention at all to the first half of the movie, where we see explicitly what made her care for her husband less and less. Oliver was the one who was a total narcissist and unable to look at her like a individual. It doesn't matter how much money he threw at her- he was still failing as an actual partner and friend to her.

1) His rude remarks at her while at the dinner, where he cut her off. We can tell this was NOT the first time he had done that to her.

2) The way he dismisses her idea to start up her own business.

3) The way he flat out RUINED her client dinner where a critic from the Post was coming to critique her cuisine.

4) He cut off all the heels to her shoes- ALL of them! What a douche.

5) Did I fail to mention he ran over her cat and Killed it? Then tried to cover it up? At least when she pretended to cook his dog up, she was merely teasing.

Insulting someone's intelligence & Insulting their career is grounds for divorce in my book. The fact that Oliver COULD NOT understand why Barbara wanted a divorce was even more atrocious, and it explains why Barbara would not give him a reason. He was too aloof to know.

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Actually, I don't think she's totally asinine for demanding a divorce. If I were Oliver, I'd have given it to her, then laid out criminal charges; multiple counts of assault and attempted murder.

He is self-centered, distant, narcissistic and a jerk, but none of those attributes are any real reason to fault him for starting the entire mess. In fact, despite those qualities, there isn't any reason for us to believe he is a malicious person, or intentionally goes out of his way to harm people. On the other hand, Barbara assaults him multiple times and locks him in a sauna to the point of near-death, runs over his car while he's in it in a monster truck, lays the "I killed your dog" bit on him, smashes his property, and countless other acts of maliciousness. He, on other hand, while a bit ignorant, has no intention of hurting her, and even writes a letter in what he believes are his final moments expressing his love for her; a letter which she attempts to use against him.

Yes, he ran over her cat in an ACCIDENT. Yes he ruined her dinner, AFTER having been the subject and victim of numerous counts of assault, battery, attempted murder, you name it. Yes, he's an a-hole. Yes, he's distant. Yes, he's self-centered. But if that justifies assault and attempted murder in your book, then I'm glad you're not a lawmaker.

Oh, and pal, some people just aren't good at getting the signals. We're not all psychics, mind-readers or experts in body language. This is especially true for people like Oliver, who are, as you say, narcissistic and too self-centered. Instead of playing these stupid games, she should have flat out told him what was up, which she did, but long after. It's funny how you'll use the feminist argument about how the man should just KNOW and understand why she wants a divorce, but you won't acknowledge that as a woman she didn't have to endure two decades of, what she perceived, as a bad marriage.

She's not only a cold-hearted b!tch, she's vitriolic, irrational and irrationally-hateful, and she should be in prison, much less in a marriage. Being a "terrible husband", as you call him (without cheating on or beating her), doesn't justify being a victim of domestic violence, the victim of multiple counts of assault, battery and attempted murder.

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I'm watching the film right now.

I can really see where she's coming from... and vice versa.

But, Oliver shows Benny, the family dog more love and affection than Barbara or their children. That is a major thing in a relationship. His perspective is very much like Cal's in Titanic. He thinks it's her duty to be this way, act this way, because that's her role. That's all she is to him. And, I totally understand why it is so easy for a man to get like that. When someone, a woman for instance devotes their time and energy to making you happy, you can't help but feel blindly overwhelmed. By the way, it doesn't make her a slave if it's her choice.

But, like I've said in other posts already, they were talking less and less, trusting each other, less and less. He was becoming more trusting with his co-workers than his wife. When they were talking about his attitude at dinner, they laughed about it. He was accommodating. There was hope for them.

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Oh no! The proverbial misogynist rears his ugly head!

Get back! Get back!

...and whilst you're at it...get a life.

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"Insulting someone's intelligence & Insulting their career is grounds for divorce in my book. The fact that Oliver COULD NOT understand why Barbara wanted a divorce was even more atrocious, and it explains why Barbara would not give him a reason. He was too aloof to know."

Right there, you're cutting Oliver off at the knees without understanding his reasons for being the way he was. That's not helpful.

That's like so many people today. You say one thing and that illustrates your entire personality?? And then, some irrational woman refuses to see that guy anymore. It's irrational and childish.

Because we're all human. We all make mistakes. But, it's really WRONG to demand that you can't make ONE mistake.

Oliver not understanding why she wanted a divorce is not atrocious. She dedicated so much of her life to making him so blindly happy, he can't see straight when the truth is hitting him in the face or squeezing his hips. Him not understanding her reasons, is just gonna happen. It's a natural response to her actions.

Teasing about killing and cooking the family dog is a little more offensive to me.

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Grow up will you?

..and take your misogyny with you!

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[deleted]

He cuts her off at dinner because she is making a fool of herself trying to tell the joke.

And not showing up to pick him up at the hospital is TOTALLY heartless.

Short Cut, Draw Blood

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Yeah. Let's turn the tables here. People don't do that often enough today.

I'm sure a wife - who has dedicated her life to providing happiness to her husband and family would love it if she learned that her husband didn't want to come to see her at the hospital after she fell or had a possible heart attack. And when the husband says, "I was filled with relief when I thought you were dead," I'm sure the wife would not be overjoyed. In fact, I KNOW the wife would either be inconsolable or really pissed. Oliver's choice was to get really pissed.

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OP is completely wrong, I just watched the movie again and it was even more clear that the wife was just awful, mean, vindictive, had mental issues, it was basically all her and the husband did not deserve her viciousness. Most men at times are inattentive and focus a little too much on a hobby, career, themselves, but in no way does that deserve the way she acted towards him. The Douglas character was not nasty to her, he was just a little insensitive when the wife was struggling like with the story. Nothing the Michael Douglas character came close to deserving to be treated the way he was by the wife even before he thought he was having a heart attack and they agreed to a divorce. The not going to see him was just cold and heartless and more or less indicative of mental issues. The way the wife acted is a clear case of severe mental issues/depression that had nothing with her husband.

-Look at the way she teases and treats the husbands dog
-She sneers at Douglas just for the way he laughs
-She throws a tantrum and turns on all the appliances when Douglas is trying to talk to a client.
-She smacks him in the face with her contract and then when the husband was playing around and initiating sex she puts him in a leg lock to injure him.
-When she finds out her husband may be in serious medical trouble and then is doing better she never bothers to go and be with him at the hospital and is happy at the thought of him being dead and no longer in her life.
-She then plugs his nose when he is trying to sleep in order to wake him/maybe kill him and then tells him she wished he was dead, does not love him, and wants a divorce, then when he rightfully keeps asking her why and what her problem is she socks him in the face drawing blood.
-She then uses a letter he wrote to her thinking he was going to die just so she can get the house in a divorce.

After all this is when Michael Douglas starts getting back at her but still he wants to make amends with her, still tries at times to be civil with her while she is absolutely miserable, he still tells her he loves her and even after she tries to kill him that he thinks she looks great where she just says she wants him out of the house and makes him believe she killed his dog and made patte of it.

She is absolutely rotten to the core and the husband did not deserve any of her venom.

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I wholeheartly agree with you, I cannot fathom how anyone could say he was worse than she was or that there wass equal blame. So, what she does for twenty years is sit and seeth about minor things her husband does and does not say anything about it. To me, it seemed like she was jealous that he was successful in something outside the home while she spent most of her time caring for the children and decorating the house. If she wanted to have a career in catering she could have started before the kids were grown and she felt unfulfilled. She sat by and internalized everything and allowed it to build to the point she hated him with a passion. He had his moments of coming across like a smug jerk but it was never done out of malice or spite.She is the one at fault for not doing much with her life and sitting by silently, while he ignorantly went on doing things she did not like. Most o the things she did were low and spitful. He killed her cat accidently because she wouldnt give him any sleep aid, so she locks him in a sauna. She violently attacks him unprovocked, several times. She was an overall B#tch if you ask me. Oliver did have his faults, like thinking he was right about everything and turning out to be wrong, ocassionally downplaying her hopes for her career and stooping down to her level when things went wrong during the separation and divorece. But I do not think he would have done those things if she acted like a reasonable adult. It was also her fault she didnt get the house.

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Unfortunately, I think this movie has a lot more relevance today than it did in the '80s. I think relationships between men and women are reaching a massive breaking point. I mean, Danny DeVito and his wife, Rhea Perlman recently broke up. If they can't stay together, I worry that no one can. People should watch this movie and try to learn a thing or two about communication, tolerance, acceptance, compassion, love, etc.

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Danny Devito proposing: "Hey Rhea it's either me or nobody."

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LMFAO. I love that Family Guy joke.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Exactly. Can't believe how any sane person can rationalise her behaviour.

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You have to be insane to think Oliver was anywhere near as bad as Barbara. There was no contest or comparison between the two of them. Please name exactly how Oliver was bad or anywhere near as bad before she said she wanted a divorce and socked him in the mouth after not bothering to visit him in the hospital when he thought he was dying. Being a little arrogant and dismissive is the way most men are and not a big deal. She had serious anger and mental issues when they had that original dinner and she was trying to tell the story which she was ruining and Oliver helped her. From then on it was basically all her. Nothing Oliver did deserved that kind of reaction from her or resentment, it was just that she grew to hate everything about him even if much of it was not bad like the way he chewed his food, laughed, etc while Oliver still loved her.

Oliver never tried to really hurt her or injure her where she on several cases physically hurt him and even tried to kill him(punching him, throwing a pot and hitting him, gripping him and squeezing hard with her thighs, locking him in the steam room, running over his car with him in it, biting his pecker and then sliding him down a hole in the attic to the floor, trying to drop a chandelier on him. The only thing Oliver did was chase her and throw a chair at what he thought was her which was at the end with all the terrible things she did to him. Even when Oliver hit the statue with the crowbar and a piece hit her he ran up and tried to comfort her and said he was sorry and she just used that as a opportunity to again injure him and try to throw him down the stars.

It was 90-95% Barbara and maybe 5-10% Oliver, how could anyone not see that and think it was even close to even. Just because he refused to be kicked out of his own house and lose the house he worked and paid for does not make him as bad as Barbara.

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Here's the thing a lot of these man-hating feminists today don't get. If Oliver was bad in any way, it wasn't conscious choice. He didn't wake up one day and say, "I'm going to make my wife feel like she's nothing, like she's beneath me just to gain power over her." MOST men in the civilized world don't think like this. Oliver reacted to her choices. He became more and more bitter with the way she was handling things, because she was not allowing him to have any choice. Look what happened with the kids. She stuffed them full of garbage and they got fat. That's exactly what Oliver knew was going to happen and didn't want for his kids. Does his perspective matter at all in this household? We see him overcompensate later in life as he lifted himself up, patted himself on the back. On the other hand, Barbara wasn't really being abused. She had EVERYTHING, all provided for her by Oliver and all of his hard work. He made fun of her but nothing like her. By underhandedly mocking her patte business, that really isn't abuse. Barbara - like a lot of feminists out there, chose to see this as oppression and she CHOSE to not love Oliver anymore. Oliver didn't choose to be an a$$hole. He was reactionary. That means despite his cold demeanor, his heart was in the relationship the whole time. Barbara got a selfish bug up her ass and chose to fight and hate Oliver.

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[deleted]

They were both ghastly people. Selfish, and squabbling over that stupid house. Glad they both died at the end.

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They were both jerks. How anyone can say either is good is beyond me. They are both terrible people. She is crazy women. I think its been inside her all along. It just never came out until the gloves came off. Anyone who thinks Oliver is good guy is more in likely just like him. The Oliver's of the world are poisonous its just not obvious until you have relationship with those women/men with that type of personality. They are draining.

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Olivers are poisonous?? WTF? How so? Because he's not kissing her ass, emotionally AND financially 24/7? Why does a man have to do everything in a relationship, from making the money to supporting his wife emotionally while a woman gets to act like a total selfish cnt whenever it suits her??

When your wife continually calls you "Fck face" for the dumbest infractions, eventually you're going to stop caring. Was he calling her filthy, hateful names before she went full psycho? NO. He was far more tolerant of her bullsh!t than she ever was for him.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Barbara was just a materialistic and spoiled narcissist and she was given what she wanted. They both got what they wanted at the start and while Oliver could be patronizing at times, Barbara still had choices and opportunities to do something different with her life, rather than just decide to hate on her husband who was largely responsible for giving her the things she wanted. She wasn't a ball and chain and while she did what she did to please him in the beginning, there was nothing stopping her from asserting her energies into a career later on, instead of channeling her hatred and aggressiveness at Oliver. She did some vile, mean and spiteful things, and if I recall, what did Oliver do that could be considered worse, piss in her pate and ruin her dinner party with drunken behavior. Whatever! She was devious and underhanded.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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