MovieChat Forums > Gallipoli (1981) Discussion > Why in God's name did they keep sending ...

Why in God's name did they keep sending them into the machine gun fire?


They knew that the Turks were in their trenches, and they saw the first wave get sliced to ribbons, as well as the second. What they hell did they think they were accomplishing? Also, I thought I heard it said that they were sent in without guns (or possibly bullets). Was this the case? They MIGHT have stood somewhat of a better chance had they been armed.

I know it's a dirty game, but it's the only one The Man left us to play.

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Americans had had experience with trench warfare before WWI...the Siege of Vicksburg (Mississippi) and the Siege of Petersburg (Virginia) during our Civil War. Especially at Petersburg, where the trenches could well have been in France fifty years later, Union Army generals faced the same dilemma that British, French and German generals faced: How do you overcome the firepower that the enemy has? In the Civil War it was the rifle musket (range: 1000 yards), in WWI, it was the machine gun...and both slaughtered men like livestock.

U.S. Grant's solution was to hit the enemy on the flanks...nail him on his left, force him out of the trenches and use cavalry to disrupt his supplies. R.E.Lee had no choice but to fall back and attempt to maneuver against Grant. He eventually was defeated (Saylor's Creek and Five Forks, April, 1865).

The U.S. Army had learned that maneuver must be maintained...and the campaigns against the Native Americans in the 1860's, 1870's and 1880's were fought as basically light infantry and cavalry against light cavalry (and against guerillas, in the case of the campaigns against the Apache in New Mexico and Arizona Territories). American Expeditionary Force Commander John Pershing had come of age as an officer fighting the Apache, and he understood the value and the need of maneuver (Pershing had combat experience against the Apache, the Spanish and the Moros), but, to be frank, making a flanking movement against the Germans was just this side of impossible. The German trench line ran from the North Sea to the Swiss border...and how do you flank an ocean or a neutral border? A break through had to be made to create a way to gain maneuvering room. The only thing that could be done was to try to hit the enemy hard at a weak spot and break through.

The British and Commonwealth forces always did it best...when tanks were introduced in 1916, that glimmer of what could be done became apparent. The idea was there, the methods and tactics were worked out, but the technology hadn't yet caught up to those tactics. Eventually, the tanks were, by Cambrai, able to make the break through, and the infantry could consolidate that break through. The US did similar during Meuse-Argonne in 1918...light tanks, artillery and aircraft.

After one hundred years, we can see how pointless those many assaults were...especially in the French sectors of the lines. The French never did seem to learn that what they were doing was wasting men...the British and Commonwealth Forces DID learn what was needed. The sheer aggressiveness of the Aussies, Canadians, Scots and Irish...as well as the aggressiveness of the Americans...made a major difference in defeating the Germans. The French may have had "elan," but being hurled against the enemy line constantly for no gain in territory destroys morale. That destruction of morale led to the French mutiny of 1917. It speaks well of the British that they didn't mutiny. The sheer bravery of the Tommies and Diggers is legendary to this day...and as a veteran of the US Air Force, I still am heartbroken that so many good men died in that war so long ago. I just wish that stupid overgrown family fight (European royalty was more inbred than West Virginia trailer trash) never took place.

"It's a hard country, kid."

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Great analysis! The French and their 'Plan 17' offense requiring 'elan' and 'cran' was outdated and only matched by the German's lack of strong military leadership.

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This battle took place at the very start of the Australian army's involvement in WW1. They were very inexperienced and they had been given an objective. They tried their utmost to carry it out.
Charles Bean who wrote the "History of Australia in the Great War" and was there from start to finish said that had the attack taken place say, two years later, the soldiers would not have continued to charge even if ordered to. They would not have refused to go but rather, omitted to go.

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In the movie, the Aussies were told to remove the cartridges from their weapons and that they would make a bayonet-only assault on the Turks. No explanation was given. The only thing that would makes sense to me is that the soldiers coming up towards the end might accidentally shoot their mates from behind. Whether that order was/would have been given in a real-life attack, I don't know.

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I think all we need to explain this is this segment of The Charge of the Light Brigade by Tennyson:

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

They kept charging because that was what they were ordered to do. The real men in this situation knew what was up. They knew they would most likely die. That's why Aussies take such pride in this action. It was a tragic battle to say the least but in the end, they did their duty and the fact that they were gunned down it spectacular numbers is more on the men in charge than on the soldiers themselves. Unfortunately it wasn't the first, nor will it be the last, boneheaded mistake made by a commander.

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Not really. I'd say it takes more courage to refuse a suicidal order and probably get shot as a coward, than to die a hero.

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Boneheaded mistake? It was cold-blooded murder.

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Dont believe everything you see in movies. those in bad shape was Turks and superiority was on your side at everything weapon numbers ect.

One side there was poeple who sent by bristh to fight for them and other side was there to protect itself.

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Well, now, that's kind of the theme of the whole movie, isn't it?

Old men start wars, and leave it to younger men to die in them. The old men who vote to start the wars are far more shielded than the young men from the inevitable effects of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Over twenty years after this film was made, the G.W. Bush administration told the US Congress that Iraq War II was going to be brought in for around 85 billion dollars. And almost every last Congressman either bought the story hook, line, and sinker, or knew he/she didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of being re-elected later if they didn't pretend to believe it.

"I don't deduce, I observe."

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The Iraq War ended up costing $1.7 trillion and 4500 dead soldiers. Why is GW Bush not in the Hague for war crimes?

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The premise was that losing 100-500 men at the Nek was worth it as long as the attack on Sari Bair was successful (which it wasn't).
And is intelligence and communications where better (up to modern standards) they most probably wouldn't have continued.
The artillery barrage ended 7 mins early (they didn't synchronize their watches) which gave the Turks time to retake their defensive positions and set up their maxim machine guns. If the attack was better coordinated it might just have succeeded.

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What they hell did they think they were accomplishing?
You can see that most of the men at the front clearly didn't think they were accomplishing anything, as the defenders (Turks) clearly held most of the defensive cards, when it came to heading off an attack with the trench warfare strategies that were implemented at the time, by both sides.🐭

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the chests of men are a poor match for bullets

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