The kid had a gun ... pointed at a cop!
And in the PTA meeting the B*tch has the balls to ask if the kid's gun was loaded ?!?!?! And they argue about it !!? Does it matter !?!?!
That was stupid. Cop did the right thing and a scene should of never been made about the kid (with a troubled and rebelis past) with a gun pointed at a cop should be challenged.
COPS SUCK!
Listen, you *beep* you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore.
Right ... youth of the nation ..
sharePolice officers are not supposed to make the first attempt. If they are shot at, then they have the right to return fire. Just because Ritchie had the gun pointed at Doberman doesn't mean he had the right to shoot him.
Also...If Doberman felt that threatened, he could have just shot at a limb (leg for instance) to slow Ritchie down.
This is just a movie though...it needs a good climax to unfold.
I just felt I should put my two cents in...(:
Bitch, I don't know your life!
You're in way over your head kelleeeeee.. a police officer has full authority to fire his weapon if someone points a gun at him.... the punk doesn't need to fire a shot first for this to happen... get your facts straight... you probably just don't like cops
shareIm a police officer, If anyone points a gun at you you have hte right to stop the threat, a leg shot like some clown posted, will not stop the threat. People who have no idea about things shouldnt post stupid opinions. Even a knife requires deadly force. There is a 21 foot rule on edged weapons, they can cover that distance before you can draw and shoot.
shareI love how people that were never Police Officers comment on how they should have acted. If they can do the job better; why don't they enlist to become Police Officers?
share"Police officers are not supposed to make the first attempt. If they are shot at, then they have the right to return fire. Just because Ritchie had the gun pointed at Doberman doesn't mean he had the right to shoot him."
That is NOT how cops are trained to respond.
BleekersPorkSword isn't a youth, he's an adult. And he's right for the most part. But that's a debate that could go on forever. And the other poster is correct, the cop had no right to shoot him, he wasn't shot at first.
I'll tell you the greatest regret of my life: I let my love go.share
How would you feel if someone pointed a gun at you, or your family? Are you gonna wait until they shoot first?
Police officers have every right to defend themselves when they are threatened. Idiots get shot every day threatening police officers with knives, bats, swords, and guns. Rational people follow police instructions first, then, if they don't like it, live to complain later...Irrational people get shot (or tazed). It's called evolution.
Also, if you think the police should "shoot to wound", then you are either a marksman, or have never shot a handgun (especially in a tense situation). If only every cop was as skilled as the Lone Ranger, they could just shoot the weapons out of their hands.
In the movie, this was just the straw that broke the camels back, whether it was justified or not.
The poster is correct, just my 2 cents.
I think Doberman made a mistake shooting White dead; he should have wounded the kid instead.
"We're all part Shatner/And part James Dean/Part Warren Oates/And Steven McQueen"
The problem wasn't just with the Richie White incident. It had more to do with Doberman's past history of badgering the kids in a manner that many (including adults) perceived to be unnecessary. Thus, he wasn't given the same benefit of doubt in the shooting that some better liked and respected cop might have. Doberman suffered from his image as a somewhat clueless clown who had no ability to connect with the kids of his community.
shareThe only arguments that you can even remotely bring up ( which are moot ) is that:
1) Doberman was out of his Jurisdiction & was not in Hot Pursuit of Ritchie & Carl while within his Jurisdiction .
2) That he fired a warning shot . This may have caused Ritchie to fear that he was about to be shot / killed .
............
Doberman was in pursuit of a fleeing felon . Said felon was known to Doberman as a drug & other substance user & a repeat offender ( we know as viewers that this was true ) . The suspect was a juvenile & not old enough to operate a vehicle . The suspect was operating a stolen vehicle upon the public highway ( most likely under the influence of drugs or alcohol ( which we as viewers know to be true ) & was traveling in excess of the speed limit, thereby endangering other motorists & other persons on or along the roadway .
There was also a Minor in the vehicle as a passenger ( regardless of him being voluntarily there or not ) . The Minor was in immediate danger of his life ( which we as viewers saw after Ritchie left the road & Carl tried to stop Ritchie ) . The suspect was believed to be in possession of a firearm ( which had been reported to police by several witnsses, not just Tip ) . Ritchie ( the suspect ) was identified by adult witnesses who had seen him in possession of the firearm & had seen him point it at another Juvenile & heard what sounded like a gunshot at the time ( we know it was a firecracker, but not the ther people who heard it ) . Ritchie had been found in possession previously of weapons ( we know the real reason he carried the pocket knife & so did the police ) .
Doberman while in foot pursuit ordered Ritchie to stop several times & even fired a warning shot ( which is a no-no for safety & other reasons ) . When Ritchie had nowhere else to run, he turned on an armed police officer, pointed a firearm directly at the officer with his finger pulling the trigger & used profanity ( which included Bitch & PIG ) . Jerk or Not, Doberman had no other option but to shoot Ritchie . If you think that Doberman wanted to shoot Ritchie, look at his face after he did it . That was the last thing he wanted to do .
Doberman was completely justified in shooting Ritchie or any other suspect in the same situation & if their death occured as a result, then it matters not . One other thing, Doberman only shot Ritchie once . In a situation like this, or anything similar, the officer(s) can keep firing until the threat is neutralized ( the person is down & the gun is out of reach ) .
The suspect was a juvenile & not old enough to operate a vehicle . The suspect was operating a stolen vehicle upon the public highway
As someone who isn't part of the "youth of the nation" (44 next month), and who respects GOOD law enforcement officers (a buddy of mine from childhood, one of the biggest punks around, is now going on his 23rd distinguished year as a police officer), I agree with ccr1633.
If Doberman hadn't been such an arsewipe throughout the film, maybe others would have been more sympathetic toward him for doing what he did in a very tense moment. Legally he was within his rights. He saw a weapon. His training took over. In the vast majority of cases, if a police officer sees a weapon (or even something that looks like one; toy guns nowadays are too realistic) and takes the time to ask "is it loaded?" or "is it real?," chances are the officer is going to be dead. And at that close range, he'd have to be one hell of a lucky shot to be able to have wounded Ritchie in an extremity.
I can't think of a police officer worth his/her badge who wouldn't have been broken up from having to shoot a teenage kid. Doberman didn't show a lot of remorse, which made him even less sympathetic.
I grew up around a good number of cops who were jerks almost on Doberman's level, who would hassle us just because they could, and because they knew we couldn't afford a lawyer. Sometimes the wrong people (power-trippers) become cops. It's easy to bash cops, but what if someone's broken into your house, threatened your life, etc...who ya gonna call?
Also...I thought Harry Northup did a very good job as Doberman.
Of course he had every right to shot Richie. A police officer can ABSOLUTELY use deadly force if they reasonably feel their life is endangered. A kid pointing a handgun at you after a high speed chase is, BY DEFINITION, life threatening.
However, that is wholly irrelevant to the movie. Doberman was not in any particular trouble for it, and, typically, when an officer shots somebody on the job, no matter the circumstances, they work desk jobs until the shooting can be investigated and cleared. They didn't even do that to Doberman. He still had his badge and was still in uniform and carrying his gun on the way to the big meeting. The point of the meeting was NOT to discuss Doberman but rather to discuss what the heck was going on in their town... their supposedly perfect little suburb... that was now racked with petty crime, vandalism and kids so belligerent that one felt the need to pull a gun on a police officer.
While you do have a point, it is not without flaw. Yes, the character of Doberman was put into a horrible position when Matt Dillon pointed a gun at him, but did he handle the situation in a appropriate way? No, he did not. This situation occurs in reality every day, and no one can honestly say that this situation always ends in the armed criminal being shot and killed. Couldn't have the officer aimed to disarm or injure the assailant rather than shoot with the intent to kill? Interesting. The cop did not do the right thing, and while the kid did have a troubled and rebellious past, he did not have a history of violence, he was exactly that, a rebellious kid. Which is a more positive solution, shooting a teenager (who is clearly scared, running, fearing his life) or dealing with him in a reasonable, rational manner, potentially steering him in the right path? The answer seems to be obvious.
One of the reasons so many teenagers, and adults for that matter, maintain such a disdain for the police is the presence of corrupt and hateful police officers, police officers who are on a constant "power trip", police officers who target kids, target minorities, boss unarmed civilians around, break up harmless parties, give out frivolous nonsensical parking violations, and are for lack of a better word, pigs. In reality, police officers are people, and some people are mean spirited, bitter, egotistical, violent people, and some people aren't. The officer shown in Over the Edge is clearly an example of one of the "bad cops".
However, the woman arguing if the gun was loaded is unimportant, she had no reason to do so. Also, I am not implying that the police officer was unjustified in the shooting, although he could have handled the entire situation better. That being said, I have never had a gun pointed at me, and I have never pointed a gun at another person. You do not know what to do in that situation until it happens. But regardless, the character development of Doberman is the key in understanding that he was not in the right. Who knows bro, right? Bro!
Shoot him in the arm?!?! Wait til he shoots first?!?! BS!! Shoot in the heart or lungs, upper body mass and you keep shooting until you need a new clip. I live in Western Washington where in the last two months seven cops have been shot five killed, two were shot just this morning. If you pull a gun on a cop you need to be put down if the gun is loaded or not.
But Over the Edge is still a great movie.
"I will have to read a couple of blogs before I can form my opinion on that"
Agreed. There have been some unfortunate stories in recent years where officers got way too trigger-happy when someone reached into their pocket for a wallet. I'm talking cases like that of Amadou Diallo, shot almost 20 times. I think cases like that have clouded people's judgment, compared to a movie from 1979.
However, Doberman was perfectly justified, even if he was a complete prick. I work in news, and we do stories all the time of officers who shoot suspects aiming a weapon at them. Self-defense.
Oh stewardess...I speak jive.
Of course there was nothing wrong with Doberman pulling the trigger on White! White was already wanted for threatening another kid with a gun and threatened the police officer with said gun. Doberman had already fired a warning shot into the air (technically, a no-no). When faced with the threat of imminent lethal force, police are trained to respond with lethal force. Doberman responded and it was bye-bye Richie!
The whole thing reminds me of a true story in Hartford, Connecticut. A young man named Joe Bak was wanted by the police for various charges (rape, bank robbery, grand theft auto). The state police pursued him into Hartford where he was eventually cornered. He produced a knife. The police drew their Glock pistols and ordered him to surrender. Bak attacked the police officers, they opened fire, and that was the end of Joe Bak.
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Applying real world rules of engagement to a movie is absurd. The shooting served its purpose to the plot