MovieChat Forums > Ai no korîda (1977) Discussion > Nothing But Glorified Porn

Nothing But Glorified Porn


Hello,
First off, let me say that I am a fan of all things Japanese. I speak the language. I also love good movies, and I have absolutely nothing against porn. Unfortunately this movie is neither of those things. It is a string of sex scenes held together by short, MEANINGLESS "dialogue" usually talking about their sex life together. I understand the sex was an important part of the story here, but I think we could get the idea that these two people were in love/obsessed with each other with either "implied" sex scenes, or just a few good ones. We don't need a WHOLE MOVIE of sex scenes to create a "story." As far as that goes, there is literally NONE in this movie, until the last five minutes. It tries to walk a line between "art" and porn, and completely fails miserably at both. If they had made up their mind one way or another, and committed to it, it would've been much better.

The other movie "Sada" which is based on this same event, is so much better as far as ACTUAL story and character development, that once you see it, this movie will be a slap in the face.

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I agree this fim is just porn but more famous

Buffy: if the apocalyspe comes beep me!
holdz up a beeeper in giles's face.

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[deleted]

I agree, or more to the point, it's like saying that The Sorrow and the Pity is just a war movie.

What's amazing to me is that people are so afraid of sex that they have to pigeonhole its depiction as "porn." It's the center to so much that we do in life, but people are terrified of it.

People let their kids watch movies where monsters decapitate each other with chainsaws, but they are horrified to have their kids see a naked person on screen.

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I don't agree with the OP, but we have to distinguish what is porn vs not porn the same way we rate violent content. The explicit sex scenes would be considered porn or XXX rating (in the US). I would think they had to take it out to get the NC-17 rating.

EDIT: Is there still an X-rating versus NC-17? Regardless, I'm kinda blown away by this list, but it does address both sexual and violent content.

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?certificates=us|x

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The OP seems to be contradicting him/herself. Either it is "glorified porn" or "neither of those things"; it can't be both.

I see this film as similar to a film like Vengeance Is Mine: a somewhat clinical reenactment which cares little about how the viewer will respond to it. In the case of In The Realm Of The Senses, there probably isn't as much public documentation to go on, so what you have is a film which attempts to recreate the sheer feeling of a very intense, very world-oblivious sexual relationship. The result is that the shocking ending feels natural and inevitable.

Does the film sexually arouse its viewers? Maybe on occasion, but I imagine most people simply looking to "get off" would rather watch something that doesn't end in murder and castration. Does the film do anything else? Of course it does. It tells a story: nothing more, nothing less. Whether the Sada Abe story is worthy of a feature film (let alone several films) is perhaps debatable, but I liked it just fine.

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I totally agree, it's also nasty due to the scene where she sexually assaults a child (this scene is edited from one version) there is no excuse for repellant film making like this. Art? more like the Emperor's New Clothes if you ask me, people saying that it isn't porn to appear intellectual.

I am a four eyed evil genius.

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The scene is edited in some form for every single version, except maybe the Japanese version. Don't use it as an excuse to call the movie disgusting.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

It wasn't quite porn, though it was close. However, it WAS very boring. The premise was great, but it took forever spelling it out, and it didn't go into detail. The first forty minutes were: "Ooh, whore loves man!" And the last fifty minutes were: "Ooh, whore is obsessed with man, and they hurt each other!" It could have been a fascinating psychological exploration, but it didn't go into more detail than what I described above.

Alfonso-lover
We have got to live, no matter how many skies have fallen.

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You people really deserve today's summer "blockbusters"!

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You people really deserve today's summer "blockbusters"![2]

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Yes, very boring. Not worthy of the Criterion imprint.

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The term "pornography" is often overused, and in the wrong context. Call "In The Realm Of The Senses" an exercise in poor taste, or a failed experiment in the portrayal of sex in a narrative fashion, or just simply boring.

But pornography is meant to titillate, and there isn't one scene in this movie that isn't shown in a cold, clinical, terrifying fashion. Nothing about the scenes are erotic, nor were they meant to be, so to call it pornography is to completely misunderstand the term.

Is it graphic? Yes. Pornographic? Not at all.

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[deleted]

Art? Of course it is. Porn? No. Art with pornographic elements? Yes. MarcDom, i see what you're trying to do here, this film is obviously deserving of a hell of a lot more thought and consideration than "it's porn!!!!!" and what have you, but to deny that there is indeed a pornographic element at play in certain sequences (but not all, and not even all of the hardcore ones) or that EVERY sex scene is shown in a cold, clinical, terrifying fashion is just, well, wrong. The close up in the famous side-view / sofa business (i won't be explicit) is very clearly doing something other than presenting the act in any kind of cold, clinical, terrifying fashion. It's insane that you have to defend a film like In The Realm Of The Senses against the "it's porn!!!!" brigade, but don't let that fight blind you to the really interesting interplay between, yes, pornographic material designed to arouse and titillate - which DOES occur in In The Realm Of The Senses, albeit in intermittent, fragmented bursts - and that cold, clinical, terrifying material you mention. The correct approach is neither to view it as a detached, psychoanalytical excercise nor as a pure honest-to-god rut-flick - somewhere between the two, the truth lies. Both elements are working throughout. That's what's so fascinating about it. londoninbrokenc.blogspot.com

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Well, pornography is only about sex, this movie is about the brain of a sexual being/body, quite different.

R.

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For me there's one scene that changes the whole movie, and erases all doubts I had about it being or not being a pornographic film, and that's the scene where Kichizo Ishida passes by a platoon marching in the opposite direction. It gives a whole other meaning of what is going on in the relationiship. Kichizo is consumed with guilt and (social) frustration, and hides himself by having private sexual pleasure (with a woman who worships him). That relationiship soon becomes very public and goes back to the social space. I think the film is somewhat more about the man than about the woman. Kichizo death is as much a murder as it is a suicide, ultimate freedom/power comes from giving yourself completely to another human being. For Sada Abe, the obvious progression of pleasure is pain and destruction, much like what happens in everything in human life - art is an example of this.
The film is also about how fun sex can be, of course.


R.

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**SPOILERS**

Porn is only meant to titillate people by definition. You can't call something porn just because it has a lot of sex. Were you wanking the whole time? Do you think a lot of other people do? Sada and Kichi's relationship starts to get heavier and heavier as she acts more and more possessive, threatens to cut his penis off, and they begin experimenting with asphyxiation. I don't know about you or other people but those things made me feel very uncomfortable emotionally; it was hard for me to feel aroused in that state. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find porn with heavy emotions, let alone anything that creates castration anxiety because it's just not good business.

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well, this was both:
A story told using sex
A story about sex

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I feel this whole "porn vs art" discussion is fundamentally wrong.
This film is art BECAUSE it is about sex. The argument "porn is only about sex, while art is about... whatever" is just as wrong as the well-established puritan crap.

Actually, porn IS NOT about sex, while art CAN be.

Because art is about essential human emotions, sex included. What is generally seen as porn fails at that because it cannot really transmit human emotions, due to its lack of originality, power, knowledge, empathy, creativity... well, its lack of artistry, basically!

So, I will contradict you (adult) people: if you get excited, in any way, about a film, then there is at least some art in it. And there is nothing wrong with that.
See a movie about childhood - you get moved by the happiness/innocence/cuteness.
See a movie about war - you get moved by the horror/dignity/bravery.
See a movie about sex - you wouldn't expect to be moved by anything else but sex, right? If this means an erection, I would say you are a normal person and the director a good one. Just as with fear while watching war movies - the message was delivered!


...oh, and by the way, this movie is about more than an erection, anyway.

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I agree it's a movie about more than an erection.

However, I do feel there is a difference between porn and art although there may be overlaps. If one watches a porn movie, one would expectedly do it for the sexual content while for the art movie, it may be about several emotions or simply the depiction of emotion(s). Getting aroused by sexual content need not have anything to do with the director's skills although a skilful director can "depict" it better.

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I think we are dealing here with an issue of terminology.

I can agree with the definition you gave to porn (films that try to arouse the viewer sexually). But I cannot agree with the implied definition of the art movie, as something that is about several emotions, among which sexual emotion CANNOT be counted.
I think art films are about ANY type of emotions, and it is better (for logics' sake, if not anything else) to keep that definition as broad as possible.

The criteria based on WHAT kind of emotion the movie depicts has nothing to do with the artistic quality of the movie, but with the taboos and prejudices of the society.

In this perspective, there is no such debate as Porn / Art movie. There are only Good / Bad movies. Depict sexuality in a stupid way, you've made a bad movie. Depict football / whales / war / the 60's in a stupid way, you've made a bad movie.

On the other hand, if we accept the dogma of moral taboos in discussing a work of art, than yes, you can call porn whatever doesn't conform to your criteria of
righteousness. The only thing with this attitude is that it can so easily be turned into some really ridiculous stand-points, once you put things in a cultural perspective. Example:

400 years ago, in Spain, the word "pig" was considered as filthy and in bad-taste as the animal was supposed to be. In the plays of the time, the word is always mentioned with an apology, saying that if the author could have avoid the use of the word, he would have done so. "Pig" was the "frontal nudity" of the time.

Funny to try to imagine the thread about one of those plays, if imdb.com existed at that time: "I think the use of filthy words such as p.. brings nothing to the quality of the play", "We could have get the idea behind the play by mentioning some other animal... but to use precisely THAT one..." "people say it is art just to appear intellectual".

Or even imagine the people deffending it: "yeah, it uses some strong language, but it was necessary for.." "it is an art play, but with some elements of porn, like using the p word" Delirious, don't you think?

When the right answer is this: an artist can use the word "pig" if he wants to!!! The only question is: was the bloody thing GOOD or not?

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I am not necessarily disagreeing with what you're saying. In fact, you've presented a good case.

There are overlaps. A good movie may have bad parts in it. And I am not saying porn is bad. Depiction of any emotion can be good or bad, can be good in an otherwise bad movie and bad in an otherwise good movie.

I am just saying that a "porn" film is usually not an art film because its goal is only sexual arousal without bothering about the emotions involved. An art or commercial film can have sexual content which may also arouse the viewer but its goal "need" not be the arousal but the depiction of emotion.

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"Actually, porn IS NOT about sex, while art CAN be."

That statement is the biggest contradiction I've ever heard. Filming or photographing the act of sex is what porn is, and you're saying it is not about sex? What is it about?

I agree that my original statement was technically incorrect because, as one reviewer pointed out, this movie wasn't probably meant to create sexual excitement, and I wasn't turned on by it, certainly. However, to say that porn isn't about sex really confuses me.

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He-he, almost one year later, let me answer you on that one!
Porn (what is generally without any imdb arguments considered so) is not about sex, because it is bad. Porn only tries to capture the feeling, the reality, the essence of sex, but being filmed generally by stupid frustrated middle aged ex-pornstars, it simply fails!
Instead, it only shows a series of images, mechanical, fake, absurd actions that bear little resemblance with what one feels when having sex.
Meanwhile, art films (i.e. good films), if so happen to want to portray sex, will, of course, manage to do it. Simply because those film directors know how. This film being a good example.
q.e.d.

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The film is ABOUT sexuality, has much to say on its subject, and does so directly, and without excuses. Great film making.

"Sometimes you have to take the bull by the tail, and face the truth" - G. Marx

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