Was she enjoying it - or what?

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FAIL

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I would like some substantiation of your supposed authority, Der_Schnibbler, over women and exactly how you know what they want.

Are you a woman? Oh, of course not, sorry.

Have you conducted systematic, longitudinal and scientifically-sound studies on how women react to various kinds of treatment? How do you define the "proper" way to give women what they "need?" What do they need? How did you establish this evidence?

I would also like to see your extensive scientific data that proves women have inherently different psychological and emotional makeup than men.

Oh? What's that? You don't have any of that data? Well, then it sounds like everything you assert is totally unsubstantiated.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you clearly wanted it really badly. I hope my domme insults helped you get your puny rocks off. Next time, why don't you just go pay a pro to let you bottom from the top?

---

As for the topic of this discussion, the rape scene is clearly a complicated look at the dynamics of sexual assault. It is possible for victims of sexual assault to experience pleasure, and indeed sometimes attackers specifically attempt to induce pleasure as a part of the psychological assault. Further, in this film, the emasculation of the protagonist is at top priority. Suggesting his partner has a conflicted reaction to her assault makes him seem more pitiful and thus his 'snap' as more intense.

There is no clear-cut answer to the question of "was she enjoying it?" She clearly both did not and did from her physical reaction. But what does not change is the fact she was not listened to when she declined the advance. It's not some fem-nazi theory that if a woman experiences some kind of pleasure half-way through the rape her "no" isn't rendered moot. It's just humanism; common sense. This can go for men, too. If a man is attacked, sodomized, but then ejaculates does that negate the intention of his attackers to force him to do what they want no matter what? This is just logic, here, people. If a person says no to a sexual advance and the advancer ignores this that is assault. Assault. Crime. Wrong. No.

Wow... Der_Schnibbler, I've got to hand it to you... I've never read such an utter display of raw ignorance in my entire life.

Let me get this straight. Our natural instincts are to find a good man and have a family... so basically all women really want to amount to a housewife and nothing more?

Really? Because I have never had any desire what so ever to become a pathetic slave to a man and pop out of few kids. And frankly I'm disgusted by any woman whose greatest goal in life is to become some subservient domestic pet. And men (like you) who are afraid of women having strength and intelligence, being ambitious and achieving goals in life... are just as pathetic and disgusting

Any real man knows love ought to be about give and take. He knows when it comes to sex, women appreciate being both submissive and dominant. He isn't afraid of a strong independent woman because he is a strong independent man who care share himself with the one he loves and appreciate her for all that she is.

You on the other hand are obviously completely insecure. I actually feel sorry for you... the best you can ever hope for is some brainwashed woman whose either inexplicably and inconceivably desperate or after money. You will never know what it is to be loved.

Must really suck to be you.

One person's crazyness is another person's reality.

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Interesting post by psxff saying that the hallowed director, Mr. Peckinpah, messed up the scene. Just shows what a fool psxff is.

But then on the other hand, psxff says, "But in the movie the girl is pretty much orgasmic with this out-of-body tunnel spiral experience, meanwhile holding strong eye contact, feeling his hulk body, and grabbing and rough kissing him while thinking of her cuckolded husband and taking it out on him afterwards. Not to mention beforehand she was walking half-naked, teasing her ex and giving him the come-*beep*-me eyes before taking a bath."

That is a perfect description of the scene by psxff so the question is why would it lead to the conclusion that Mr. Peckinpah messed up?

"Yeah the director definitely messed up the scene; added too many elements. I mean when most of the audience is thinking she's enjoying it, you got a problem."

-This is not a problem with the film, it is a problem with the people who view it that way. To me (as I've said in another post) this is why over 90% of sexual assaults go unreported, because the majority of people think this way. That is a disgusting mentality that needs to change.

Sam Peckinpah was a master filmmaker.

"You have no right to call your home theater a home theater until you get Blu-Ray"

The sexual response in humans is not dependent on moral, mental or emotional acceptance. There is a purely physiological trigger (tactile sensation, for example) that overrides any such feelings. A person can be thoroughly and unequivocally disgusted or repulsed by the very thoughts or actions that bring about sexual excitement. In simpler words, a person can get sexually aroused by things that would otherwise offend him/her, things like rape, bestiality, homosexuality, sadism, etc. - something one finds repulsive can simultaneously be sexually stimulating. So, yes, a woman's body can betray her so that she might have an orgasm even while being subjected to rape. This does not, however, imply that a woman secretly wanted or dreamed of being raped. Her shame (of enjoying it even against her will) is proof enough of that. Rape is evil and inexcusable no matter how hard you try to justify it.

As a side note: rape fantasies in women is a result of society's branding them as whores and sluts if they willingly seek out sexual partners. By being raped against her will, she avoids those feelings of being a 'loose' woman.

Now, will someone gag me, beat me and make me write bad checks...:-)


Ask your doctor if thinking is right for you

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I think aleisterhigen has a very important point. Simply put, academic argument aside, the clear message is yep, they like it, and why not enjoy watching it happen on screen. After all, no harm , slice off a cut cake and so on and so on...........

I was working at at a Rape Crisis Centre when I first saw this film, and I can attest that the contrast between Peckinpah's idea of raped women and actual raped women was, to put it mildly,notable.