MovieChat Forums > Scars of Dracula (1970) Discussion > i have my issues with this one

i have my issues with this one


im just rediscovering the hammer dracula films, im watching them in order -
although ive had to watch SCARS OF DRACULA before taste the blood, because
thats the dvd i received first! the first dracula is brilliant, as is
prince of darkness (such atmospheric films, with huge attention to detail,
believable cast and just a good overall gothic feel to the proceedings) i
think that things start going amiss by the third film,dracula has risen
from the grave. Although i need to rewatch it to get a better handle on how
to discuss it, but anyway moving on to the scars of
dracula.....................

this film was AWFUL!!!! i mean its easily one of the worst films ive ever
seen, after making 4 previous dracula films they should now know what works
and what doesnt, but this film seems to have all the qualitys of a school
play! infact thats an insult to the men, women, boys and girls who produce
school plays.

Firstly, the lighting is all wrong wrong wrong in this film - both for
internal and external shots, now fair enough i appreciate you probably cant
film at night, but they seemed to do a good job on the first 2 dracula
movies. The film is too bright! theres no sense of darkness or doom /
gloom, this just removes any chance of it being a gothic tale,because we
dont feel the presence of the "night". Also the sets are absolutely bare
bones, aside from the set for Draculas castle - but seeing as we spend as
much time in the church and the village inn as we do in draculas castle ,
then those sets needed to be more realistic (plus dont forget what ive just
said about the lighting being too bright, which actually lessens the effect
we get from draculas castle, so even though they did a good job on draculas
castle and his coffin room, the fact that the overall lighting level is way
too high spoils these sets, as they just look like nice sets for a stately
home rather than a menacing gothic abode) where are the small details like
the garlic on the doors, the little crucifixes etc - these are ESSENTIAL to
creat a rich feeling dracula movie, the inn is an absolute shoe box with no
attention to detail what so ever, did the people making this film not see
any of the other dracula movies, isnt the purpose of set design to actually
design and create a set to give the film a more realistic and believeable
effect?

also what was up with the actors in this film, where was the sincerity they
had in the first couple of movies, and the guy playing the priest , what
was wrong with him, was he drunk, ill etc - why did we get nothing out of
him. I wonder what the director was saying to him just to get those stock
footage like shots of him sitting nursing his drink.

and the fake bat!!!!! WTF, it would have better just to use shadows and
imagery rather than subject us to what surely must be the most pathetic
attempt at special effects ever, or why didnt they just get a rat and stick
some fake wings on and suspend it from wires, even that would have been
more satisfying. And why the 2 police men in the inn, what was the need
for that scene, were they filming an episode for some comedy series on the
same set, because im sure those characters shouldnt have ended up in the
finished film. Plus what was up with the story, we dont even get to know
what happened to paul, was there scenes shot bu removed from the final
film.....................................

i could go on and on and on. all im saying is i cant believe someone let
this film get made in such a bad way (ie non dracula like, although saying
that, this would be a bad film no matter what the subject matter) that by
the time theyve gone to all the trouble of planning / shooting and then
editing it and delivering a final product, that no one realised it was GOD
AWFUL.

which is a shame really because Christopher Lee was brilliant as always, i
liked to see draculas castle with tanya the slave of dracula, nice to see
dracula scaling the castle walls like he does in the book, also the special
effect shot of the castle at height was really good and believable, but
these good points stand for nothing when delivered in such a mess of a
film.

if i watch the movie credits and find out that Ed Wood d Wood Jr
directed,then i may be a little bit more forgiving, but we know thats not
the case.

was this just a one off blip for hammer, or did there films in general seem
to decline in quality through the late 60's early 70s?? its such a shame
when you see how brilliant the 1958 horror of dracula, and 1966 dracula
prince of darkness are.

anyone agree? :-)

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This film was made about the same time as Horror of Frankenstein, Hammer's worst Frankenstein. They must have been going through a bad patch.

"I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. I don't need to be forgiven."

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[deleted]

I know a lot of people agree with you, but I certainly don't. I think this is one of Hammer's best films (yeah I said it). I like the bat, sure it looks fake, but I don't watch a horror film from 1970 to see amazing special effects and the bad day for night photography isn't enough to blow the atmosphere for me with this one.

Cinsidering its the fifth in the cycle, i'm surprised at how well Roy Ward Baker managed to take what was become a bit repetitive by Taste The Blood... and inject new life into it.

I love the bat attacking the cleavage scene, I love the cast, I love the fast pace that this one has, and I love the obviously fake backdrops. I know they were to do with having a low budget, but I think they work really well. They don't look like real scenery, but I love them. (I know a lot of people may disagree on that one). I think they look really cool and surreal.

One of the best things though is that Lee actually gets a role in this film, rather than standing in shadowy corners and getting henchman to do all his bidding. When we first see him he actually gets to have a good conversation, which really reminded of the kind of scenes he had in the first one.

I loved it.

any one agree/disagree?

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Disagree. I don't rate Scars anywhere near first! Not only did the bat and the knife look really fake but so did Lee's death scene with that terrible looking "Michael Myers" mask. Also, Lee's pancake makeup looked tacky. More screen time doesn't = better movie in this case.

I keep it in my collection just the same, but it ranks 5th for me. It could have been so much better.

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I think the bat in Brides of Dracula looks worse and lots of people rave about that movie. But, hey don't watch horror films from the late fiftes to early seventies to see great special effects. I admit they linger too longer on Lee's double in the death scene, but this doesn't ruin the movie for me. I love the story and pace of this one. I've been watching them in order and I found this to be a real return to form for me. But you know, to each his own :)

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Yeah, don't get me wrong. I do like Scars, just not first. Coincidently, This is the last Lee-Dracula I need to complete my dvd set. None of the used outlets here have had it, and I don't want to pay $20 plus for it new. I'll get it someday though, but I'm keeping my vhs version till then.

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Yes, I agree - it was brilliant!

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I finally got round to seeing this one, as it's one of 5 assorted Hammers in a DVD box set I just got from ebay. I saw all the other Lee Hammer Dracula movies when shown on British TV in the mid 70's, but somehow this one passed me by ? maybe because it doesn't really dovetail with the other movies.

I quite enjoyed it. yes the bat is pretty poor, but the Musical score is one of the best, as is noted in an other thread. It's also odd as two of the leads (Waterman and Hanley) went on to be famous in other things. Waterman in "the Sweeney" & "Minder" and Jenny Handley as presenter of kids TV series "Magpie". Also seeing Patrick Troughton (surely the scariest thing in the movie) not as Dr Who Mk II. All of which meant I stuck with it and rather enjoyed it overall. Lee has more to say than usual and so does Michael Ripper who is really very good in it as (inevitably) the Innkeeper. Plenty of nudity and heaving cleavages, but then by this time we were into the 70's.

I agree that the interior/exterior blending is poor, with Night shots clearly in daytime and the Forest scenes not really fitting with the Town or caste scenes.

I found the opening oodly shocking where the righteous peasants return to the church only to find all their loved ones dead. Reminded me of "Fistful of Dynamite"

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Nice to see some other people dug this movie. It gets a lot of crap and a lot of fans seem to hate it. I bloody LOVE it!

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It's The Best One Since The Original 1958 Film

Chrstopher Lee Actually Has Lines

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This is one of my all-time favorite Hammer films, especially in their Dracula series----there's just something about it that really rings true to me for a vampire movie. Loved the opening, and Christopher Lee was magnetic as Dracula in this. Sure, some of the effects were hokey, but I tend to overlook that, as it more than makes up for it in atmoshpere........and that's one thing this movie has a lot of, in my opinion, tons of atmoshpere!!! But the acting, music, everything is just great, gloomy and creepy!! I've owned it on VHS, and bought the DVD years ago, and it's must viewing for me at least once a year!!

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I disagree, dracula talking should not be an issue, it provides more character and his way of thnking. Bela Lugosi spoke as the Count, and it gave that power with speech.

Scras if dracula was weak due to the plot and character construction.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2746/kellyitsaboutdattimexu4.jpg

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[deleted]

didn't dracula speak in Horror/house of dracula and taste the blood.. which were good films in my view.


http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2746/kellyitsaboutdattimexu4.jpg

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OH it's not that bad

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Yeah , it's good one....I didn't mind the bats.

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This isn't as bad as people seem to make out. I dig that crazy bat!

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By 1970 when this film was made, three things had happened to horror cinema. The first was Night of the Living Dead and the second was Rosemary's Baby, both films having an unprecedented impact on not just the market by being huge, colossal hits, but in the approach to making them which was oriented towards adult (or at least 17 and over) audiences. Before 1968 or so, horror movies were really made with all ages in mind, as is evidenced by Dracula Has Risen From The Grave which was the first movie ever to be awarded an audience rating (G, general audiences) by the MPAA. But by the time of Taste The Blood Of Dracula (1969) you can already see that Hammer was going for a more graphic and lurid style, partly in response to the demands within the market created by Night of the Living Dead in particular. People wanted to see more flesh ripping and outright gore, flimsy negligees fluttering in the breeze and a castle on a mountain in Mittel Europe didn't cut it anymore.

The third thing that happened to horror cinema is that by 1969 it had become truly international, with efforts from Europe becoming the vogue where exploitation was the rule of the day. At that time most of continental Europe didn't have an "adult film" market for outright pornographic productions, but they had horror movies -- among other genres -- and the distributors & producers slowly upped the ante of "adult" material in the form of explicit gore, nudity and sexual themes that had never been directly addressed before. After seeing something like a Jean Rollin or a Jess Franco sexploitation horror film anything that came before it seemed tame, and the idea wasn't to make "art" but to sell tickets and have theater owners pay rental fees on films. You had to give the audience what was in vogue.

The key phrase is exploitation, and Scars of Dracula is one of Hammer's first exploitation films in response to this shift towards adult oriented cinema. It just happens to be masquerading as a gothic horror thriller; The Vampire Lovers (also 1970), Lust For A Vampire (1971), Twins Of Evil (1972) and especially Vampire Circus (1973) all distilled the exploitation formula down further to where a Dracula character wasn't even important. The vampire movie angle was just a tapestry onto which the parade of breasts, blood, gore, decapitations and other adult themes were woven. The stories become secondary to the thrills & chills being presented, which is one of the reasons why Scars Of Dracula feels "under-written". The story, plotting, and majority of cinematography was secondary to giving the audience such delightful elements as people being chopped up & thrown in acid baths, bodies hanging impaled graphically on giant iron hooks, the deplorable scene where Dracula tortures Klove (torture scenes are a very important element in the Euro genre film formula dating back through the spaghetti western years), graphic bloody killings with Dracula gorily stabbing people rather than using his 1eet vampire skills, etc etc etc.

The traditional concerns of a Hammer gothic became secondary to that formula of exploitation, and it's a testament to the talents of those involved that the resulting films turned out good enough for people to still be watching & discussing thirty eight years later. The sad fact of the matter for Hammer is even this shift towards exploitation ultimately wasn't enough but for a few years they churned out what might considered to be "classy grindhouse fare" like Scars Of Dracula and The Vampire Lovers and kept their franchise together beyond the end of the relevancy of their classic era.

I do agree that Scars of Dracula is one of their weaker Dracula entries, my favorite is actually Dracula Prince Of Darkness, but one thing to keep in mind when considering it is, as someone else mentioned, Christopher Lee actually gets to speak lines in this one that have some substance to them rather than just muttering about being avenged & having the camera stop by his darkened corner in the ruined abbey like Oscar the Grouch. He's also directly involved with the action of the film rather than just an onlooker, a problem I have with Taste The Blood Of Dracula and Dracula AD 1972 in particular (which I would rate as the least of Hammer's Dracula productions without even needing to think about it).

One other aspect of Scars Of Dracula is it's emphasis on cruelty taken to a level that it hadn't been seen before from Hammer. Everyone in the film except the two lovers is mean-spirited, cruel, violent, unlikable, sullen, guilt ridden, incompetent, sadistic and beyond redemption. There's also zero in the way of comic relief unless like me you find the scene where Klove chops up Tanya to be inappropriately hilarious. Hammer's approach usually mixed lighter scenes in with the heavy plot and action, here it's all just literally a horror show, with a de-emphasis on the "picture postcard" cinematography that defined their classic era look. Compare this one with The Brides Of Dracula and other than the music & some of the trick photography you wouldn't even know they were made by the same basic production team. Instead this one actually looks cheap and like it was filmed quickly, where most of their classic material looks so ornate by comparison. I find the approach quite refreshing and like others consider this to be Hammer's last "great" Dracula movie, though they did pull off a couple other good ones too afterwards, especially Vampire Circus.

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Great analysis, Squonkamatic! I've come to regard this as an exploitation remake of Dracula: Prince of Darkness. The plot here is almost a complete match: Dracula is resurrected when blood pours onto his ashes, he has a servant named Klove and he perishes in a very unlikely way. Both films center around a group of people who find themselves at Castle Dracula and one of them is killed in both.

Obviously, the script is not a word-by-word remake, but I think there are huge similarities. Of course, the film only really works within the series' continuity if you think of it as an unofficial sequel to Horror of Dracula. Apart from the changed appearance of Castle Dracula, there are no glaring continuity problems like there is if you regard it as the sequel to Taste the Blood of Dracula.

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The only thing I can agree on are the badly executed bats, and some of the other special effects.

I will say James Bernard's score did get on my nerves a little bit here and there, but I guess he had to come up with something different.

I went into "Scars Of Dracula" expecting the movie you pretty much described, but what I found was an enjoyable treat. It was fun.

"Scars Of Dracula" is certainly far from the worst film I've ever seen! I guess I've seen more movies.

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I wont deny any issues brought up with the film. The lighting, shooting scenes "day for night", the inept priest, the fake bat, the fake bat etc. But there was more Christopher Lee, I just watched the commentary on Scars of Dracula and he said that he was frustrated with the earlier Dracula films because he was like a side character to the films but he felt that this film was closer to Bram Stokers work.



And one more thing...how effing cool was it to see him scale the wall!






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I don't watch old films for sfx , same thing when I watch the rocket scenes in 007 YOLT , doesn't bother me much ;)

Dracula film imitating another Dracula film , same thing with Bond (AVTAK imitating GF cept with micro chips , TSWLM imitating YOLT with Stromberg instead of Blofeld & Liparus instead of the kidnap rocket , DAD imitating laser doomsday device from DAF , etc etc)

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[deleted]

I did lose some believability with the fake bats and Dracula struck by lighting and seeing at times it's a stunt double? Dracula's deaths since Prince Of Darkness did come off as a bit humorous where they could've been a splat sound at the end when he's falling.

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