MovieChat Forums > Le Cercle RougeĀ (1970) Discussion > Something i've been wondering about

Something i've been wondering about


Melville is my fav director of all time and i've seen this movie many times.

But when i saw it yesterday i started to wonder about something i've never thought of Before.

At the end, when Vogel come bursting in through the window out of nowhere...how did he know it was a setup?

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I could be wrong, but I got the impression that Vogel was somehow in on the set up and at the last minute, had a change of heart...When he bursts in, doesn't Detective Mattei ask Vogel, "Why not tell him who I am?" and Vogel responds, "He wouldn't leave otherwise."

Or, I don't know, maybe he just saved Corey and it occurred to him he was set up...

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hmmm! i don't know about that....gotta w atch it again

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Vogel couldn't have been "in on the setup" as Mattei spends the bulk of his time hunting for Vogel. That doesn't make any sense. Vogel simply has a bad feeling about the entire fence scenario and proves to be right upon seeing Mattei posing as Santi's fence.


Tuco Pacifico Benedicto Juan Maria Ramirez

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yeah i figured Vogel being in on it wasn't the case. But Melville leaves little clues as to why Vogel suddenly shows up. Perhaps Corey told him where he was going and Vogel followed and saw the police, because he knew when he came in through the glass with the gun.

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i still don't get it, *beep*

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Ya, well Vogel KNEW where Corey was going, that's for sure. What "little clues" are you referring to, anyway?
Damnn, the ending just kills me! lol


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

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if Vogel just went there and noticed the police, i dunno would have left it untold and just have Vogel come bursting through the window. It's something else than that...i think it has to do with the circle and the overall theme of the movie. i don't know really

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His heart told him there's some trouble... so he run to save Corey. And sacrificed himself. :'(

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I don't have any problem with Vogel's getting a bad feeling about the deal & crashing it. There are two problems I do have, though:

1) chronology: the scene showing Santi setting up the deal on the phone with a disguised Mattei (shown ensconced in the mansion) comes before, not after, the scene where Mattei arranges to pressure Santi by busting his son on a marijuana charge. So it's not clear to me the extent of Santi's complicity & if so exactly when it occurs. (I suppose the explanation may be that neither Santi nor Mattei at this point knows that the robbery involves Vogel as well as Corey.)

2) the cryptic comment (maybe it's clearer in the French rather than subtitles?) that Vogel makes to Mattei: (paraphrasing) "If he knew who you were, he wouldn't leave." My interpretation is that Corey's loyalty to his friend is such that he wouldn't have left Vogel to fend for himself & be recaptured by Mattei.

There are a lot of ellipses & loopholes in the film, really--the other ones that nag at me concern the prison guard & Rico (what is their connection? why does the guard go straight to Rico after Corey's robbed Rico's safe? -- & does Rico tip the police off? who sent the anonymous note? it's not shown). But in the end it doesn't really matter that much--I think one of the points of the film's epigraph is that these meshings of fate occur almost independently of individual actions.

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It is not that complicated. There was an obvious connection between all of the men in the movie. They felt each other. Vogel had a bad feeling about the transaction and went to the house. That is it.

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In my conclusion, Corey did not want to suspect that a waiting man would be in police because this secondary transaction was refered by Jansen via. Santi.(Jansen expressed Corey and Vogel in the car that it led by Santi who has been credibility) On the other hand Vogel was dubious about who would be, while Vogel has expressed that Santi has been credibility either. Therefore, Vogel hesitated to express hisown reservation, in order to not lose Jansen's face and Corey's mind. In fact, Vogel looked unconfortable at the scene before Corey's leaving. Vogel might have identified who would be by his eyes. Unfortunately Vogel's reservation would be correct, Vogel's word mean even if Corey had knew Vogel's reservation, he would have not been dubious for saving Jansen's belief. To sum up, Vogel had to go there for identifing who would be. As Vogel met by chance Mattei in disguise, Vogel got everything and made Corey out.I do not think Vogel wanted to save Mattei's life from Corey. Jansen confessed at the final scene that police man has been idiot always with laughing at himself. It comes from his regret believing Santi.

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In my opinion Vogel's sudden realization has something to do with the rose that the girl at the club gave to Corey. The club owner was a man of principles and even though he was forced to act against his will by Mattei, he would still have wanted to inform Corey about Mattei's subterfuge. Now, he could have easily hidden some sort of a clue in the rose so as to warn Corey about the incipient danger. I have reached this conclusion because I felt that the girl in the club was quite keen to hand over that rose to Corey. Also, after Corey bids Vogel adieu as the latter stands beside the window, we see the same flower in his hand. He might have somehow located the club owner's clue hidden in the flower and would have rushed to inform his partner. I request anyone who doesn't agree to go back and re-watch the last 10 minutes of the movie before reaching a final conclusion.

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Yes, this is it. We know that all the men meet at the end because of the red circle, and I think this is the best explanation of how that works in a literal sense.

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I thought I was the only one confused about that.

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