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Psycho in Lynne Ramsay's You Were Never Really Here

posted 6 years ago by swanstep (2616)
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Ramsay (Ratcatcher, Morvern Callar, We Need To Talk About Kevin) has a new film out starring Joaquin Phoenix which is getting v. strong reviews at least from critics who are already on Ramsay's artsy, hyper-sensorial, Lynchian wavelength. Mark Kermode's one of those, and yesterday he posted a vid. about a chat he had with Ramsay about what he took to be important allusions (e.g., to Psycho) in YWNRH:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5yPjhQV1Lw
Basic Point: Every time Kermode raises anything, Ramsay just laughs and says she either winged the reference while shooting or never intended anything of the sort.

[–] swanstep (2616) 6 years ago

There was a Psycho gag or two on a recent ep. of Roseanne.

R. recommends that Darlene immediately has something out with her bratty, disrespectful daughter Harris, notwithstanding that H. is in the shower. Darlene is reluctant to do this which leads Darlene's sister Becky to reminisce about R. barging into her and Darlene's showers when she needed/wanted to yell at *them* growing up. Becky says that the experience was like being in the shower scene from Psycho and mimes Roseanne knifing through a shower curtain while making Herrmann's famous sound cue. Roseanne has the final word, "At least Norman Bates respected *his* mother."

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

Ha.

Its nice to know that Psycho retains its culture credentials...and given the sky-high national ratings that Roseanne is currently getting -- it means a lot of people are getting re -educated on Psycho.

I have to say, given that Psycho is at LEAST as well made and profound as Vertigo -- Psycho, not Vertigo is the greatest Hitchcock movie. Psycho has proven, over DECADES, to be relevant and famous. How often does Vertigo get referenced on TV sitcoms?

Also, I must confess..I have been unable to get to that Ramsay interview. Care to share how he or his new movie references Psycho?

[–] swanstep (2616) 6 years ago

I have been unable to get to that Ramsay interview. Care to share how he or his new movie references Psycho?

Ramsay is a woman.... and, according to Kermode, Joaquin Phoenix's troubled hitman in the film has a troubled relationship with his mom, whose fave film is Psycho, she has posters for it up, etc..

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

Ramsay is a woman....

...

Whoops....

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and, according to Kermode, Joaquin Phoenix's troubled hitman in the film has a troubled relationship with his mom, whose fave film is Psycho, she has posters for it up, etc..

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Well, that is pretty direct and "more than usual." A MOTHER who loves Psycho? Never thought of that angle...

[–] movieghoul (213) 6 years ago

Vertigo was referenced a lot in Twin Peaks; one character was named Madeleine Ferguson.

And in an animated film about 10 years back, Monsters vs Aliens, a girl is transformed into a 50 foot giant, and at one point, is involved in a rooftop chase ala the opening scene of Vertigo. She slips and is clinging to a drainpipe but looks down and notices her feet are only inches from the ground.

[–] swanstep (2616) 6 years ago

@Movieghoul. Mad Men had a whole lotta Hitch going on, but one of its most resonant lifts was Don Draper's first side-chick, Midge Daniels, who had Midge's apartment and career from Vertigo but was sexy like Melanie Daniels from The Birds.

Update: Bringing this up reminds me that I had an elaborate theory according to which the key to Mad Men's ending was going to be a relatively obscure film that came out a few months before Psycho, Chabrol's Les Bonnes Femmes. That sadly falsified prediction is preserved online here:
https://tinyurl.com/qdph4pb

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

Mad Men had a whole lotta Hitch going on,

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Oh, yeah -- particularly in Season Two, when each week's episode had a "Hitchcock easter egg" -- a shot from Vertigo of another blonde seeming like Betty; Don arrested for drunk driving at Glen Cove Police Station; a Marnie horse ride for Betty, etc.

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but one of its most resonant lifts was Don Draper's first side-chick, Midge Daniels, who had Midge's apartment and career from Vertigo but was sexy like Melanie Daniels from The Birds.

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Yes...and she was in the pilot episode to really get the Hitch vibe going. A few character names:

Midge Daniels
Roger Sterling
Harry Crane

....all borrowed from Hitch people.

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I suppose the moral of this story is that "Psycho" is indeed NOT the only Hitchcock movie to get cited in other films; but I'd still say it is way out in front.

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Back in the 80's, I think Moonlighting(with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepard) did one episode based on Vertigo, complete with the music. Also an episode that climaxed with a crop duster chase(the crop duster never got off the ground, drove through LA streets) with the NXNW overture blaring away.

And Thirtysomething did a Hitchcock themed dream sequence and borrowed Inspector Oxford's line from Frenzy: "You are positively glutinous with self-approbation."

[–] movieghoul (213) 6 years ago

One critic at the time described Moonlighting as a show in which practically every episode has a "Vertigo plot", ie, featuring a violent death which is not what it seems to be.

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

One critic at the time described Moonlighting as a show in which practically every episode has a "Vertigo plot", ie, featuring a violent death which is not what it seems to be.

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I seem to remember that about Moonlighting. And they had Eva Marie Saint play Cybill's mother!

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Moonlighting was a weird deal, all the way around. I recall finding Cybill Shepard to be a MOST unlikeable actress(?) in the seventies: the spoiled and vapid rich bitch ice queen she played in Bogdanovich's "The Last Picture Show" seemed to be the real her -- and she helped wreck Bogdo's career when he cast her in the wrong roles.

I thought Cybill Shepard was over by the eighties. But she came back -- given a tremendous boost by the outta nowhere star power of Bruce Willis -- and suddenly they were BOTH hot. But, evidently, feuding.

With movies beckoning Willis, he bowed out of a few episodes and for awhile there , there WERE no new episodes of Moonlighting. When one finally appeared, they ran old silent movie footage of dancing girls and acrobats with a narrator intoning "The world rejoices! A new Moonlighting episode finally arrives."

I recall the experience of first seeing Bruce Willis on Moonlighting. Who was this guy? He sure had something. I recall thinking his voice was a match for cool psycho Alan Arkin in Wait Until Dark. Around the same time Willis debuted on Moonlighting, he did a "Miami Vice" as a villain and I felt the same impact: "Who IS this guy?"

Well, Willis hit big, and after a couple of Blake Edwards misfires(Blind Date and Sunset, with James Garner, who hated him), Willis lucked into Die Hard(when bigger male stars said no) and -- the rest is history.

Bruce Willis. The starmaking machinery never fails to intrigue me.

PS. Cybill Shepard, not joining Willis in stardom, seemed "over" again but damn - -she got another hit series. I guess I just don't see what she's got.

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

Vertigo was referenced a lot in Twin Peaks; one character was named Madeleine Ferguson.

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I'll here note that I never much got into Twin Peaks, even as I admired the idea that "art" had made it to network TV. Still...you don't get much more Vertigo than Madeleine Ferguson...

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And in an animated film about 10 years back, Monsters vs Aliens, a girl is transformed into a 50 foot giant, and at one point, is involved in a rooftop chase ala the opening scene of Vertigo. She slips and is clinging to a drainpipe but looks down and notices her feet are only inches from the ground.

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Yes, I saw that film and saw that gag.....I suppose one issue is that while Psycho had that famous screech for the murder scenes; Vertigo didn't really have all that "identifiable" a musical motif for the "Zoom/Travelling Shot POV".

[–] swanstep (2616) 6 years ago

I finally got a chance to see You Were Never Really Here and all its very prominent Psycho refs in its first 20 mins... As usual with Ramsay the film is amazing to look at and listen to. I was completely into it for the first hour. The final half hour, however, disappointed me. I needed the film to, on various levels, settle down a bit then and, e.g., give us a little more (discernible, unmumbled) dialogue, show us a little more action, plot, etc.. Instead the film doubles down on its artsiness/ellipticality - the plot dissolves, action continues to be almost entirely off-screen, mysteries abound, and there's almost no unmumbled dialogue, etc..

The plot, such as it is, is familiar: Hard Man with issues saves/retrieves girl from dire straits/sexual slavery. Everything from Chinatown and Taxi Driver to Mona Lisa and The Limey to The Professional/Leon and Taken has been down this road, often with brilliant results. Perhaps Ramsay felt too strongly the urge to do something very different from all those.... at any rate by deliberately denying the audience all manner of conventional satisfactions, YWNRH ends up frustrating and unsatisfying rather than finding its own novel way to satisfy. It probably needs another viewing but, honestly, YWNRH didn't motivate me to spend more time on it. Instead it made me want to rewatch The Limey and Mona Lisa.

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

The plot, such as it is, is familiar: Hard Man with issues saves/retrieves girl from dire straits/sexual slavery. Everything from Chinatown and Taxi Driver to Mona Lisa and The Limey to The Professional/Leon and Taken has been down this road, often with brilliant results.

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AND it has Psycho elements up front, too? Quite the homage.

But I don't like hearing about that second hour drifting away.

Hitchcock was a story guy, but his instincts were good: get people interested in "how its all going to turn out," and then...deliver.

Sounds like this one doesn't.

[–] swanstep (2616) 6 years ago

But I don't like hearing about that second hour drifting away.

Yeah, it's almost certainly not your cup of tea ecarle. I'm normally quite tolerant of non-mainstream excursions, but YWNRH completely exasperated *me*.

Much more accessible and successful on the moody hitman front, HBO's Barry w/ Bill Hader in a breakthrough performance, great support from Henry Winkler of all people. Not really a comedy after the first few eps, owes quite a bit to Elmore Leonard and Coens so not the most original thing out there. Very dark. Recommended (you can binge all of it so far in 4 hours).