Confused about ending


Hi! I loved this film, brutal as some parts of it were, but the ending didn't sit right with me. It made sense to me, when von Sydow exclaimed that he didn't understand God. But I'm not sure what Bergman's motive was, to have the father promise to build the stone church...after he had just felt that God had 'stood by' and allowed the rape and killing, all the killing, to happen. That religious ending didn't seem to go with the rest of the 'godless' tone of the film. Also, why the spring (I assume it was a symbol of the birth of Christianity?) on the spot where Karin lay? She was perhaps, innocent in her naivity, but not all that pure, being vain, bragging a good deal, and having had stayed out all night, on some occasions. One website claims that Bergman felt 'obliged' to add the religious ending, but that doesn't sound right, to me.

I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way. - Gustav Mahler

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Throughout all of Europe, there was always this sacredness about sacred groves, springs, and rivers. This was absorbed into Christianity, and many sudden springs were attributed to saints. In fact, it evolved into a Cult of Saints. The Virgin Spring is actually based on a historical event, according to oral tradition. It is NOT SATIRE!

There is this ballad called Torres dottra i Wange that is based on a family's tragedy as Tore's daughters were savagely raped and murdered on the way to church. In the ballad and 12 century legend, though-he made one highwayman/rapist-murderer build a church on the spot before he murdered the Tore's daughters. This church (the Karna Church)is located in Malmslatt, Sweden.
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Sweden/Oestergoetlands_Laen/Malmslaett-185169/TravelGuide-Malmslaett.html

Pehr Tyrsson's daughters in Vänge The forest was so coldThey slept a sleep too long While the forest came into leafThe youngest one woke up first The forest...And so she woke up the others. While the forest...-Then they sat up on their beds.So they braided each other's locks.So they put on their silken clothes.So they went to the church.But when they came to the Vänge hillThey met three highwaymen"You either be highwaymen's wives,Or would you lose your young lives?""We do not wish to be highwaymen's wives,We'd rather lose our young lives."They cut their heads off on a log of birch.There soon three wells sprung up.The bodies buried in the mud,The clothes taken to the village.When they came to Vänge farm,Lady Karin met them in the yard"And would you buy silken shifts,By nine maidens knitted and stitched?""Untie your sacks and let me see,Perhaps I know all three."Lady Karin beat her chest in pain,And went to find Pehr Tyresson."There are three highwaymen in our yard,Who have our daughters slain."Pehr Tyrsson grasped his sword,He slew the eldest two.The third he left alive,And then he asked him thus:"What is your father's name?What is your mother's name?""Our father is Pehr Tyrsson in Vänge,Our mother is Lady Karin in Stränge."Pehr Tyrson then went to the smithy,And had iron crafted 'round his waist."What shall we do for our sins?""We shall build a church of lime and stone.That church will be named Kerna,And we will willingly build it."



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"Godless"? The characters spend almost every scene praying.

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Yes sunheadbowed you've got this exactly right. There is no "Godlessness" going on here. This is a great story that's as relevant today as it was 1500 years ago. It's a story of man's struggle to be human and distance ourselves from the animal kingdom - our instincts are contrary to what Jesus preached on the Sermon on the Mount. We are all full of pride, jealousy, rage and revenge, spoiling our children through unwise permissiveness, and dismissiveness of the existence of evil. The ending is classic - why do bad things happen to good people. Tore comes to his senses after finding himself questioning a God he worships that created the heaven and the earth. When he commits to building a church at the site of his daughter's death, we hear the birds again chirping and trees rustling reaffirming God's pleasure in his change of heart. Today's church preaches a Christianity that promises wealth and happiness which is contrary to Christ's message in the Gospels - In this world you will face troubles. We see this struggle to remain devout in the face of daily survival difficulties.

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Personally, I get sick and tired of Bergman's attempt to compensate for his dropping out of school by playing amateur psychiatrist and making every, single picture metaphorical that I could scream. I believe that a movie should be open and forthright from beginning to end - not leaving the viewers wondering what the whole thing meant. Bergman is so self-obsessed and narcissistic that he tries to confuse the audience, rather than just present an honest and forthright portrayal of life. If he wanted to make statements because of his own dissatisfaction with life....just MAKE them for Christ's sake. Dufus.

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Personally, I get sick and tired of Bergman's attempt to compensate for his dropping out of school by playing amateur psychiatrist and making every, single picture metaphorical that I could scream. I believe that a movie should be open and forthright from beginning to end - not leaving the viewers wondering what the whole thing meant. Bergman is so self-obsessed and narcissistic that he tries to confuse the audience, rather than just present an honest and forthright portrayal of life. If he wanted to make statements because of his own dissatisfaction with life....just MAKE them for Christ's sake. Dufus.

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If all art were like that, Joyce Kilmer could have cut to the chase with "Trees are cool."

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Nothing to see here, move along.

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