MovieChat Forums > Moby Dick (1956) Discussion > TCM's inept staff does it again

TCM's inept staff does it again


TCM ran Moby Dick again on January 19, 2013, and host Ben Mankiewicz, reading his copy off the teleprompter, stated that when director John Huston first thought about making the movie he wanted his father, Walter, to play the part of Ahab. But, continued Ben, when Huston finally got the chance to do the film, Walter was in his 70s and too old for the role, so Gregory Peck got the part.

Which is all very nice, except for one small item...

When the movie was made, Walter Huston had been dead for six years. The movie was made in 1956. He had died in 1950. He was never in his seventies. He died the day after his 66th birthday. That's why Peck got the part.

More and more mistakes are being heard on TCM. Mainly this is the result of the obviously uninformed and incompetent staff they have working for them. Anyone who saw the staff members on camera with Bob Osborne last year realized that few of them knew anything about the very subject matter of their channel. They don't all have to be experts, but they should at least have a fair amount of knowledge about the films they're writing about. And if they can't discover an obvious fact like the date of an actor's death, let alone that he was dead and not "in his 70s" -- not exactly difficult things to find out -- their competence as researchers is pretty worthless.

But both Ben Mankiewicz and even Bob Osborne have to share some of the blame. After all, they are supposed to be experts, Osborne especially. They should read the copy they're given beforehand, and check out and correct any information that's suspicious or inaccurate. They're the last line of defense before some bit of misinformation is broadcast to their public. Yet time and again, they simply read what's been prepared for them...some of which is not only just plain wrong, but occasionally contradicts things they'd previously said about the film.

I like these guys and generally they do a good job. When you think about it, they really don't say a lot about each film before and after it runs, so it isn't like they're overwhelmed with having to talk about a great deal of information. What TCM needs is a knowledgeable and dedicated staff able to look things up and write clearly and correctly, plus on-air hosts who go over the copy they're handed with an editor's eye for quality and accuracy. It's really not that difficult, but TCM is doing worse and worse at this very basic task.

So, I guess, don't take everything you hear on TCM at face value.

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I quite agree. It is a shame. And not too difficult to correct as you suggest.

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Hi cwente! Happy New Year. (I'd say happy inauguration day, but.... )

Yes, apparently these guys never heard of things like, oh, say, IMDb.

What gets me is not so much the fact that they didn't know Walter Huston was dead, but that they went on to assert as fact that he was in his 70s in 1956. This indicates that they knew when he was born. How could they find that out and not simultaneously discover his date of death? Just plain bizarre.

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Good catch, Hobs!! That was a whale of a mistake! TCM should hire you as a fact checker! And it begs the question: if they have made a mistake about something as glaring as that, what *else* have they gotten wrong??!

Hate to be too harsh on them, because I've been an ardent consumer of TCM broadcasting for a number of years now, and essentially I like the service they are providing. Thankfully TCM hasn't gone the AMC route whose initials now stand for Always More Commercials. But still, facts are stubborn little things, and they should really do their homework before going on air!

One other thing, is that I have had occasion more than once to wince greatly upon hearing Robert Osbourne clumsily make his way through a film introduction. Many times I've heard him mumble or jumble words to where I can't understand what he just said. Also, he often fails to place vocal emphasis on words in the script that really need to be emphasized. It's obvious that he is reading off a teleprompter, but it appears that he has not rehearsed the given text one bit.

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As Kirk Douglas once sang, "Got a whale of a tale".

Speaking of which, wouldn't it have been fitting to have had James Whale direct Moby Dick? Or maybe that would have cut too close to the bone, seeing as he was gay. Or maybe using an expression containing the word "bone".... Aw, forget it.

It's not only what else they might be getting wrong on TCM, it's all the stuff they could say that they don't. Obviously, they only have a couple of minutes to talk about a movie, but they could vary what they say from showing to showing. Also, I'm sure you've heard them spend most of their closing time after a film plugging the network, saying "We show a lot of Joe Blow's films here on TCM. To see the next time one of them is playing, check out our not-always-reliable TCM guide, with films we're not showing such as Last Summer Won't Happen...." You get the picture. Or, perhaps not.

I know what you mean about Bob Osborne's enunciation, though I'm sure he must use a teleprompter. I think there are two problems. One is that, by his own admission, he is poor at pronouncing many names, particularly foreign words and titles. For instance, try as he might, he simply cannot pronounce the name of the female star of The Red Shoes, Moira Shearer. It always comes out "Mor-ee-yah Shurr". MOY-ruh. SHEER-er. Easy. There are many other such examples.

The second reason, sadly, is that Bob is nearing eighty and is obviously not in the very best of health. I suspect he's simply no longer quite up to the task of quickly and surely speaking all the lines he has in the time allotted. You remember his months-long, and still unexplained, absence from the channel last year, and the fact that Ben has been taking over many if not most of the nighttime chores -- hitherto Bob's exclusive turf -- as well. Clearly, TCM is preparing for the turnover in hosting duties at some point in the future. Bob's recent unsteadiness and speaking difficulties, plus his undeniable cutback in his schedule, makes it unhappily plain that he's no longer as good as he was and is easing out of the post. I say this with great sympathy and regret, as I like him, he's generally good, and he seems a likable and engaging person.

All that aside, they still need better staff!

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hob,

Ditto.

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Murky buccups, as notre ami Bob Osborne would say!

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Goodness, James Whale directing "Moby Dick"...?! I can just imagine how that would've spawned any number of colorful *harpoon* jokes. That famous whaling expression "Thar she blows" would probably have to be... Aw, never mind!

Yeah, it's too bad about Bob Osbourne nearing the end of the line. And I hate to criticize the man, because I've liked what he has done, plus he truly seems like a wonderful person - a "real gentleman" as Mrs. EQ would say! I suppose his unexplained absence has served all manner of speculation. Maybe he just needed a time-out and a reset? I'm afraid he's going to need a permanent time-out here pretty soon. I just wonder who his replacement will be.

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Do you know, I tried to come up with some phrase employing the word "blow" -- just to take this to an even lower level -- and your phrase never even occurred to me!! I'm getting senile or something.

On the other hand, I'm glad you're the one who'll take any heat for using that phrase, seeing as how it strokes the issue...um, yeah, we better forget this train of thought. Just let it slip into the tunnel and...oh, yeah. We've got to get off...that is, just drop it....I mean, let's keep our hands off.... D'oh!

I assume Ben Mankiewicz will succeed Bob full time, when the time comes. The question is who they'll get to replace him weekends. Just as long as it ain't one of the staff!

Well, I'm going to cook a hot dog for lunch...oh, hell. A simple d'oh! will wrap this up!

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Heck, Mankiewicz can do the weekend stuff, too! Pre-recorded intros and closing remarks. For all we know, he works maybe one day a week in front of cameras.

Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here!

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True, Osborne also did the weekend stuff for several years before Ben was brought in. Still, I think some variety is nice...if they can find the right person.

Osborne and Mankiewicz are flown to Atlanta from L.A. once a month to record their opening and closing segments. (I think they come in at different times, but I'm not sure.) They stay about three days or so each trip. TCM might do better transferring that operation to Los Angeles, where more knowledgeable people might be found to staff the place. I'm sure they could afford the switch.

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Yes hobs, I guess we'd better cease with the satirizing of this epic movie, else some angry whaler just might thrust a harpoon at our lampoon. Hey, there's got to be a whale oil joke in there somewhere...

I suppose Ben M would be okay as a replacement for Osbourne. I always enjoy his enthusiasm, plus he has a wry sense of humor that is quite welcome. I just hope he starts doing a bit more research and fact-checking before he gets in front of the camera!

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"Oil jus' be thrustin' me 'arpoon at yer gizzard, yer white-livered dick, yer! Aaargh!"

If that doesn't put an end to this theme, nothing will.

Ben is getting better. The main thing that always bothered me about his remarks, especially at the beginning of a film, is that he often runs down the movie, makes fun of it or is sarcastic in a way that denigrates rather than amuses. But he seems to be easing away from that approach. Maybe responsibility breeds respect!

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I think that RO is not healthy or well. Remember his very long vacation? His slurring of words is typical of people with some kind of hardening of the arteries/brain stroke problem. In any case, I preferred Nick Clooney as the host.

Anytime they want to get rid of Ben, and his nepotistic appointment, I'm available!!

_______________________________________
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!"

Maximus Decimus Meridius

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Of course, Nick hosted AMC not TCM . . . ah, when AMC actually broadcast classics.

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Did Clooney do hosting chores for TCM? I know he did the intros and close-outs for films over at AMC.

Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here!

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Only AMC. He & I worked together a few times back in the day. Nice man! Contract difficulties I believe.

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The original AMC master of ceremonies was, I believe, a guy named Bob Dorrian (sp). Nick Clooney replaced him, and Clooney was replaced by a younger host, whose name I forget, but still see from time to time on commercials. In those "glory days" of cable channels, Bravo was just a notch below TCM and AMC. In fact, I think TCM was my third go-to channel.

farley, are you a New Yorker, too?

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I lived in New York for a number of years but not in the city. Did business there, however. I lived upstate in Ithaca where Cornell is located. Then, on to Connecticut. . .

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Not to be too intrusive, but do you know where you live/work in Connecticut? I have a house (actually two houses there, one in Stratford, one in Bridgeport).

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Not too intrusive at all. I lived, first, in New Haven, then moved to Enfield near Hartford -- right in the middle of the old 'White Owl' tobacco fields. Wonder if they're still there? I traveled all over the state and loved to arrange trips so I could stop at Mystic Seaport and have lunch at the Seaman's Inn. Great clam chowder! Wonder if that's still there, too? This was all back in the late 60's early 70's. I'm pretty ancient! Need to make a trip back sometime.

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I've never been to Mystic, and will make it a point to go this Spring. I'm assuming it's New England (and not Manhattan) clam chowder they serve at the Seaman's Inn. Enfield is between New Haven and Hartford?

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They filmed several movies at Mystic including parts of "Moby Dick" ('56). It's fun if you like that part of American history. I do. And, ah, YUP! -- New England style clam chowder! Enfield is a little NW of Hartford, if memory serves.

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If only there was some kind of world wide web of information where they could find out this sort of thing.

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Had he said Walter Huston was in his sixties and was considered to be too old for the part they would have been correct.

I believe it's generally acknowledged that John Huston had his father in mind for Ahab when he first considered the project, probably sometime in the late 1940s. What TCM messed up was the chronology. Of course, they should have known that Walter Huston, who would have been in his 70s when the film was actually made, never made it that far.

I agree with other posters, that TCM, in spite of its faults, is still a very good station. Substantially better in my opinion than AMC WAS (when they were commercial free). When TCM first started broadcasting, I didn't have them on my cable plan at first. Eventually, partly due to the AMC implosion, I forked over the extra money and have never regretted it.

I also agree that their introduction issues are tied in with the simple fact that Mr Osborne, with all due respect, is 83 and probably needs assistance that hasn't been forthcoming. Perhaps 5-10 years ago it was easier for him to shoulder the burden of making certain that all the necessary film research was performed. Perhaps now, someone at TCM needs to "step up", but it hasn't happened yet.


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Actually, Mankiewicz would not have been correct had he said that Walter Huston in his 60s was considered too old for the role, because that was not the case. John intended to make the film with his father all along, and was still looking to cast him when Walter died suddenly in 1950 at 66. His death put the project on the back burner for a while and of course compelled Huston to seek out a new lead. But Walter's death, not his age, is why he never made the film.

In any case, stating that Walter Huston was still alive and in his 70s when the film was made, when it is an easily ascertainable fact that he had died at 66 six years earlier, is just plain incompetence. This goes beyond simply making a mistake; you have to be making things up to believe this.

TCM is my favorite channel, taking the place once nobly occupied by the pre-1999 AMC, before as you so aptly say it "imploded" -- self-destructed was more like it -- with ads, cuts, etc.

Still, that doesn't put TCM beyond criticism. While I agree that Bob Osborne, at 83, may no longer be as up to the task as he once was (which is all too often visible on screen), that's a reason, not an excuse, for so many instances of glaringly bad misinformation. (And at 48 Ben Mankiewicz has no such excuse.) Besides, such things have been evident on TCM for many years; this isn't a recent phenomenon. But as I said elsewhere I think this problem has gotten worse and more frequent over time. Osborne and Mankiewicz share part of the responsibility, but the real problem appears to lie with the staff. I think a lot of people, a lot of new and better people, will have to step up.

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As far as someone stepping up, the obvious candidate would appear to be Mankiewicz as you seem to imply. I sort of look at him as the "heir apparent" of Osborne. Whatever the reason, it doesn't appear to be happening.

Of course TCM is part of a giant corporation (Time Warner) which like many very large corporations probably has a multi-layered quasi bureaucratic management structure. Perhaps Osborne and Manciewicz simply view themselves as paid performers. To them, TCM may only represent a small portion of their lives. They may have neither the time nor the inclination to involve themselve in issues such as staffing decisions.

Similarly, it'd be understandable if the direct staffing managers would be reluctant to "push back" within the corporate hierarchy (assuming there was a perceived problem).


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Can anyone please tell me Captain Ahab's age as depicted in the novel (if in fact it was depicted)?

It seems to me that an actor in his sixties would generally be considered too old for the role. Perhaps a range of about 35-50 would be more appropriate.

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Mankiewicz is like Ron Burgundy in "Anchorman," all he does is read whatever is on the teleprompter. "I am Ron Burgundy?" :-P

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