Like it but obviously no law enforcement tech consultant - Gunsmoke (1955) Discussion

[–] Tresix 8 years ago

First, bear in mind this show is taking place in the 19th Century. Laws that are in effect now probably weren't around in those days. Second, would you really try to grab the gun from a 6'7"; 220+ lbs. lawman? There were some guys that Dillon could have taken dkwn with just his bare hands.

Annoying the world since 1960!

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[–] bradford-1 8 years ago

Let's see: no Miranda rights; no right of counsel if you're charged with a crime; not sure if Dillon ever dealt with writs of habeus corpus; (sp?) the right to a speedy trial? Probably depended on whether a circuit judge happened to be in the area; depending on the crime, there's always achance the good townsfolk will storm the jail, overpower Dillon and his deputy and lynch the "suspect." More to come...
May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?

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[–] grizzledgeezer 8 years ago

A problem I see in many movies and TV shows is whoever's holding the gun follows his prisoner much too closely. You need to leave space, in case the guy turns on you.

Dillon is generally good at respecting rights -- especially the one about letting the court make the final decision.

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[–] ben-thayer 8 years ago

I've never understood why the town has to build a gallows every time they hang someone. I mean, hangings in TV westerns were pretty common, so why build a gallows and then tear it down? They'd be building another one when the next outlaw was sentenced to hang. Whomever was selling building supplies was making a killing (no pun intended) off all the gallows being built, then torn down, then built again, then torn down again, ad infinitum.

And also, why do they always build the gallows in the middle of the street?

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[–] fredwhite-87744 8 years ago

Hangings, for some reason, on Gunsmoke were done in Hays City. Except when a judge decided that the people of Dodge were getting too hang happy and wanted them to see one.

Fred

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[–] spodso 8 years ago

Executions were "public" events. Maybe executions today should be "public". It might make the "public" more aware of what's going on in the country.

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[–] jeryll0722 7 years ago

I read somewhere or saw/heard it discussed on TV that scaffolds were not maintained to keep hangings from becoming too comfortable. Perhaps other larger towns maintained them, but some wouldn't. Sounds idealistic, but it's not impossible.

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[–] liscarkat (16565) 3 months ago

The scaffold was probably dismantled and stored away, rather than being built from scratch with new lumber each time. That's what they used to do with the guillotine in Paris. It broke down for storage between executions.

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[–] fredwhite-87744 8 years ago

Did Dillon really do that that much? Usually when a gun got taken, it was Festus or Newly. My question is why did Dillon ever feel the need for a fair draw contest. Even in the very first episode (Matt Gets It), all could be avoided if Matt just busts in on the guy with his gun already drawn after he gets shot. The guy did shoot a Marshal.

Fred

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[–] ben-thayer 8 years ago

Hangings, for some reason, on Gunsmoke were done in Hays City.

I probably should've posted that question on a forum for a different western...😀

On that note, why Hays City? The citizens of Dodge seemed to be just as hang-happy as the citizens in other towns, so why do they:

a) not want to see an outlaw get punished? It's not as if they were unwilling to hang someone or watch them being hanged.

and more importantly:

b) send the town's only lawman to deliver a prisoner to another town, leaving Dodge undefended during that interval? I've always wondered why Hays - if they provide hanging services - doesn't also have some kind of paddy wagon service that would've been sent to the nearby towns (likely on some kind of schedule) to pick up condemned prisoners for execution.

I'm trying to recall how long it took Matt to travel to Hays round trip...several days? Lotsa *bad* things can happen in several days...

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[–] DrakeStraw 8 years ago

I'm trying to recall how long it took Matt to travel to Hays round trip...several days?

It's 105 miles one way on current roads. How far can one go on horseback in a day? 30 to 40 miles on level ground is about it. Matt would have to leave Dodge for a week for each hanging. That travel requirement would have been unrealistic at that time and place. Why were the producers out of favor with hangings in Dodge even if they weren't actually shown?

DrakeStraw
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[–] ben-thayer 8 years ago

Why were the producers out of favor with hangings in Dodge even if they weren't actually shown?

Now that's a darned good question, especially when one considers the following:

- They never shirked from showing death, and a lot of them were *brutal* deaths
- They didn't seem to mind having a lynching from time to time
- They were at a few hangings in Hays, for example the episode "With a Smile"

Dillon will occasionally say "They died hard" when they encounter a situation where that very thing happened.

I may need to add that one to the Dillonisms thread!

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[–] bradford-1 8 years ago

I seem to recall that sometimes Dillon would travel by stagecoach when transporting a prisoner, didn't he? How long would that take? i assume the coach stopped at a station at least twice between Dodge and Hays to change horses and allow folks to eat, and, ahem, use the 'facilities.' Of course, add in delays from attempted outlaw/Indian attacks, axle/wheel breakdowns, passenger illness and bad weather.

May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?

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[–] DrakeStraw 8 years ago

To confound the need for hangings in Hays further, these are the earliest comparable historical populations from Wikipedia:

Population of Hays, KS
1880 850

Population of Dodge City, KS
1880 996

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[–] ben-thayer 8 years ago

Funny you mention the population, I was just about to post this reply.

The sign at Dodge City's railway station stated the population of Dodge was 996 citizens.

I always wondered why a city with nearly 1000 citizens has only one lawman. Chester was never officially a deputy, although Festus was. Still, 2 lawmen in a city of 1000 sure seems to insufficient to police the town.

If one considers the fact that Dillon is frequently away from Dodge for many days at a time, the city becomes a ripe target for criminal activity during those intervals.

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[–] bradford-1 8 years ago

from what I've ascertained, the real Dodge City (or Ford County) didn't have any sort of law enforcement until late 1873. The "Dodge City Peace Commission," which usually seemed to number at leats seven men, became the lawmen. But I assume GUNSMOKE only concentrated on one marshal w/one helper-deputy because it was easier to write two characters as opposed to seven.
May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?

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[–] DrakeStraw 8 years ago

Still, 2 lawmen in a city of 1000 sure seems to insufficient to police the town.

I found this chart for some tough big cities. 5 per thousand is on the low side. The production budget for Gunsmoke (1955) just couldn't afford four deputies!

City Total per 10K residents

Washington, DC 68.5
Baltimore, MD 53.4
Chicago, IL 47.1
Wilmington, DE 51.0
Philadelphia, PA 47.8
New York, NY 59.5
St. Louis, MO 58.6
Miami Beach, FL 54.9

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[–] Tresix 8 years ago

Usually, I would see Matt transporting prisoners either by train or just riding on horseback. Needless to say, I guess he would use horseback if it's a nearby town.

Annoying the world since 1960!

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[–] DrakeStraw 8 years ago

I don't believe you could go from Dodge to Hays by rail in the 1880s without passing through Wichita. (1880 Pop. 4911) Why would there be a need to go any farther for a hanging?

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[–] KartofflMuter 8 years ago

I'm sure I saw him take a prisoner on a stagecoach and the coach was attacked by bandits.

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[–] candacbap-88-377616 8 years ago

Yes, I saw that too.

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[–] phvince 8 years ago

Hallsville Missouri, about 10 miles north of Columbia, had a population of just under 1000 back in 1995. There was only one officer who patrolled the small neighborhoods and one day he observed more than four cats on my property.

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[–] TennesseeTarheel 8 years ago

Me! Me! Me! I can answer that! Because everyone open carried! Not as much of a need for law enforcement when folks can protect themselves.

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[–] KartofflMuter 8 years ago

Except-that there were many towns that had no law whatsoever because they had become enclaves for outlaws. You risked your life going into them because they were no longer defending themselves. They were offending everyone. Guns are made for killing, not defending. The "defense" excuse ceases to be valid when the population increased from 900 to 90,000.

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[–] liscarkat (16565) 6 months ago

Killing is equally offensive and defensive. Guns are made for defending as much as for killing. "Defense" is not an "excuse", and never ceases to be valid.

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[–] mbcullen 8 years ago

It appears to me many police shows have bad procedures. How many times have we've seen a suspect or a prime witness or a living victim in the hospital protected by a police officer in the hallway and the bad guy still manages to get in the hospital room?

Just saw it last week watch reruns of Ironside when Ed is in the hospital under police protection and the bad guy somehow manages to get on the operating team.

Also, how many times have we seen police officers on tv shoot at the bad guy running away even though there are people around? They shoot in restaurant kitchens, hotel lobbies, on the street. Don't think this is police procedure either.

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[–] KartofflMuter 8 years ago

Keep bobbing. They also didn't have a CSI show in 1963. You know why? A lot of people had black and white TV. Fake guns looked fake.People used their imagination. The audience didn't feel it was their G-d given right to criticize everything they see and hear and feel and MIGHT see hear and feel. It's an excuse for rudeness. I don't care about your feeling. I don't care about Donny Drumpf"s opinions. I care about mine and how I got there and am I maturing as a person. It's not a contest if I'm the only one running.

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[–] stargazer1701-1 8 years ago

I am way back at season 3 or 4... Seems to me that outlaws would prefer draw in a fair duel. To sneak his gun away or shoot him in the back is cowardly. Reputations were critical back then... no gunslinger wants to be called yell-uh!

Also, Matt kills in self defense. He talks to us while he walks around the cemetery at the outskirts of Dodge.

Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast

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[–] grizzledgeezer 8 years ago

There are at least two episodes in which Matt (arguably) commits murder, and one where Festus apparently does so.

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[–] liscarkat (16565) 6 months ago

Sounds like you've still got a long way to go on that journey toward maturity. Keep trying.

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[–] sandcrab277 8 years ago

hays was the county seat for ellis county kansas and fort hays, a us army post was also nearby...it was the closest federal community for support of a us marshal stationed in dodge city so it makes perfect sense the hangings would take place in hays

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[–] DrakeStraw 8 years ago

... it makes perfect sense the hangings would take place in hays

Nearby Fort Dodge dates from 1865. Why couldn't they support Matt more efficiently than Fort Hays over 100 miles away? Also Dodge City was bigger than Hays in 1880 (see above). I just saw an episode with a hanging in Dodge, so it wasn't out of the question.

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[–] ChrisB13 7 years ago

Reading your review this person is left to wonder if you really grew up in the era of "Gunsmoke" or if panning great TV shows and/or films has found a comfortable spot in your bloodstream. My God, son...take that ramrod out from your spine and relax! I'd be willing to bet you didn't think that way when you were a kid...if, indeed, you ever were really a child! Of course, the other possibility is that your daddy was in law enforcement and pointed out every flaw in logic, discipline & procedure to you! You cannot view this with the eyes or experience of a 20th or 21st century adult. It must be viewed in its own time frame...and that would have been in the 1870's!

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[–] grizzledgeezer 7 years ago

My father served in the Navy, and loved pointing out the errors in the uniforms and decorations on McHale's Navy.

In broad terms, I agree with the OP. Matt is portrayed as an extremely intelligent and savvy person. He would not put himself in a position where someone could grab his gun.

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[–] ChrisB13 7 years ago

Yes, that's part of the problem when you're dealing with law enforcement or military folks and it is especially true when you're a kid and they are THE adult and/or parent! I had a brother who was "a lifer" in the Air Force...a Senior or Top Master Sergeant. His son was terrified of him, of his reactions, his corrections and his general demeanor. He could wilt you with a look as I am sure he wilted the men under him! Everything had a place and everything was to BE in its place or else! I was much younger than my brother...by 15 years, and was much closer in age to his son. I watched that kid shrivel into a limp blob of silly putty every time that guy said or did anything. The result? He married too young and he married a blithering idiot. He has five children...three of which who are not at all well adjusted to life...one of which in constant trouble. He cannot parent because he had NO teacher as a child. My bother was divorced from his wife when my nephew was about 11 years of age and proceeded to marry 4 more times! I personally think my brother had a screw loose but I've seen the behavior before...mostly in little people with jobs that demand "by the book" behavior and thinking! When you cannot adjust your thinking to a mere television show that is meant for entertainment and not for absolute and error-free facts, there's something wrong. Once again...many of the people who have written here are judging by today's standards and not those of the 50's or 60's. Today we are used to questioning EVERYTHING and I personally think it takes much of the joy and fun out of shows such as "Gunsmoke" and many others from that era.

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[–] liscarkat (16565) 6 months ago

My dad was a professional firearms and ballistics expert. Imagine the continuous critical commentary in our living room when any western, war movie, or cop show was on tv.

Check your "Bold" icon.

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