SEXIST???

I think you are quite right.

Some people confuse the depiction of sexist behavior with sexism itself, even if the intent is the exact opposite. The great burden of our age is that it has supplied cretins with terminology.


I have made enough faces.

Agreed. In fact, the film is remarkable when viewed in the context of the 1950's. The screenwriters and director never shy from strong female characters. The central story arc is how Millie tames these rude backwoodsmen, including her hard-headed husband, and she does it with bravery, cheerfulness, and ingenuity. In fact, you could easily see the brothers after they've been fed, cleaned, and stood up to, following Millie around the farm like a bunch of puppies.

Even the Brides after their kidnapping don't wilt and wring their hands: they throw rocks and give it right back to the boys. The most delicate plot point is the Brides' change from anger to forgiveness, and the filmmakers did it with great subtlety. Yes, the brothers did a brutal thing, but they paid for it by spending the winter in a cold barn with the objects of their affections a stone's throw in the nice warm house with all the food and feminine chatter. We can see they learned their lesson (even Adam) when the plot turns on its head and they try to bring the girls back.

IMO, the only true "sexist" moment in the film is when the Brides get cabin fever and turn on each other, rolling around on the floor in their corsets in a squabble. THAT is some sort of male fantasy unleashed.

I believe that there are parts in this movie that seem somewhat sexist but in the end does it really matter since in even today's films woman can be treated in a very sexist nature... Look at the movie posters for alot of teen comedies of today where women are projected as a huge sex symbol and only that.. this had alot of strong woman characters for round out the huge male characters sides with the whole guys kidnapping them the woman wouldn't have been so easy to get with the boys if they hadnt also been feeling what the men were feeling at the barn raising, otherwise im fairly certain those rocks they threw would have been a lot bigger. Sides we all gotta give Milly props especially when she faced that she was going to be takin care of all these men and really made them into gentleman by stealing their clothes lol i always get cracked up when she says she will come in there and take their underclothes from them.

Personally, I'm a feminist and I pick up sexist remarks in everything. Whether it's sexist remarks or sexism as a whole, it is still harmful. I just watched this film and enjoyed it. Whenever I hear a sexist remark in old films, I try my best to brush it off because of the time it was made in. At first, I found the movie empowering because Milly was such a strong character.

BUT, I found it got to be very sexist during the end. For example, the song they sang, "Woman Ought to Know her Place". Look at these lyrics:

Ever since the wedding she's tried to hold the reins,
No one's puttin' me in chains.
A woman ought to know her place.
A place she's had since time began.
A woman ought to know her place is behind her man
Is behind her man.

In the end, yes, Adam does realize women should stand beside her man, but the fact that this was even said in the first place irks me.

Now, is that not sexist? There was also another comment that particularly bothered me. When Gideon said Milly had a girl, Adam said something like "of course she'd have a girl." Also, when the girls were all in the room together and singing about being brides? Well, they were fighting over men in the first place, they were NOT able to stand on their own two feet by themselves. That was so shameful to watch at times! Especially when they started singing about being June brides forever. Give me a break.

All that being said, I did actually enjoy the movie. I realize that since the movie DID take place in 1850, you have to laugh all of these things off. And of course with all of the things that were going on in the 1950's with rejecting all of the sexual liberation that was going on in Europe, I can understand why movies like this were made around that time.

I still think it was a well-made, well-done, well-acted film. But since you asked, those are just some of the things I picked up on. Maybe that will help you with your understanding of why some people say it's sexist.

> the brothers, especially Adam, are very sexist in the beginning,
> but I don't see how that makes the film itself sexist.

This seems to be the crux of the issue.

A lot of people just can't separate what a character says or thinks from what the overall story is saying ....... at least when that character is not depicted as an evil "bad guy" of the piece throughout.

In this case, Adam's coming around at the end (plus Millie being the only character in the film who is *always* right and speaking with any real moral authority) IS the point; what Adam says (or sings) when he is merely demonstrating his initial attitude (which is required in order to show him being converted) IS NOT the point.

In a lot of ways Brides is a complete gender inversion of The Taming of the Shrew.


Another example of a movie where I've seen people fail to differentiate between the POV of a movie and the POV of characters within the movie was Glory. I've seen people rail against that movie for glorifying war as great chivalrous adventure. My response to that one is always along the lines of "What movie were you watching?" ...... because everything about war as depicted in that movie is horrific. Sure the characters enter with the attitude that war is a glorious endeavor for a man ...... that's just historically accurate and anything else would be a massive anachronism; but that is not what the movie is saying at all.

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Whipped Honey and PillowRock make excellent points about perspective in SBFSB, and I should also note for aboutagirl's benefit that the song "A Woman Ought to Know Her Place" doesn't appear in the film version that is shown on Turner Classic Movies. I'm not even sure it's in the extras on the DVD. Perhaps it was added just for the stage version.

But it doesn't matter, though, as the decent Milly does indeed turn out to be the moral authority in the film.

Yes, 1950s popular culture was sexist from the word go. Remember Desi Arnaz spanking Lucille Ball in the I Love Lucy series? That sort of depiction of women as children who need the firm hand of a smarter, tougher man lasted well into the 1970s, at least in television and movies. Though things have improved somewhat in American films, there's still a really appalling amount of sexism generally, in the media and elsewhere.

That said, Seven Brides is actually a bit spicier and sweeter than it may look at first blush. The women do fight back after their kidnapping. The men can do nothing but take it and try to worm their way back into the women's good graces, which they do, and not by force but by words and, eventually, the kind of courtship that Milly counsels.

It doesn't hurt that boredom and proximity and natural attraction bring the women around anyway. That fight that erupts in the brides' dormitory is not so much over men as it is over cabin fever and a degree of hypocrisy. I never really looked at that scene till recently. Sarah and Martha are still putting on a show of anger and prudishness, and Dorcas and Liza call them on it, pointing out Martha's surreptitious peeping at the men and Sarah's nocturnal visit to the woodpile (presumably to meet Frank). And Dorcas lets everyone know EXACTLY what is on her mind by speculating about the sleeping arrangements.

Watch the acting in the post-kidnapping scenes, especially the expressions of the actors, the glances exchanged, and so forth. There really is more character development there than I thought, though obviously the music and dancing also play a huge part in that as well.

Stamp out silly threads! How many "so-and-so looks just like so-and-so" discussions do we need?

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