MovieChat Forums > Gojira (2004) Discussion > Oh man this is a bad movie

Oh man this is a bad movie


I saw the 50th anniversary re-release at the Moma and I'm tickled.

To start with, the special effects are MUCH inferior to King Kong, made more than 20 years before this movie. Godzilla's appearance is too little, too late after all the build up.

Roger Ebert says of this movie that "properly decoded, [it] was the "Fahrenheit 9/11" of its time." Hahaha, more like THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW of its time! Sometimes the Atom Bomb and nuclear warfare subtexts strike a real chord, like the scenes in the hospital and Tokyo on fire but most of the time, this movie is to nuclear warfare like global warming is to The Day After Tomorrow.

Some of the original audience, instead of thinking "Oh God, this is terrible!" about the politics in the film and the message about American nuclear weapons, were probably just thinking "That blew up real good!".

The movie is choppy, uneven, boring and overlong.

The only really good thing about it was seeing the compilation reel the Moma made comparing the American and Japanese versions. Funny stuff.

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no it was made in 1954! he was to wreck havoc in japan
NO it's about nuclear worldwide that needs to be outlawed

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[deleted]

The special effects in this surpass King Kong's.

The use of a suit makes Godzilla's movements far more lifelike than KK's jerky stop motion.




"Impressive. So, Kira, without actually laying a hand on someone, you can kill?" L, Death Note

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exactly, this movie is just as much a classic as King Kong

1-18-08
So unique you can't describe it
So iconic you can't forget it

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The special effects in this surpass King Kong's.
OK, let's not get carried away. I consider myself a big Godzilla fan, but King Kong is one of the all-time classics of special effects. Godzilla has a guy in a suit. There's no comparison.

We don't have to suffer, we're the best batch yet.

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King Kong did a better job of building up to the creature's invasion. When Fay Wray's character is filming a movie, you don't suspect a real monster will appear.

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Well, the special effects are more than just the man in the suit. It's also the movie sets, the crumbling buildings, the flames, the burning city, etc... Yes, Godzilla is a man in a suit and therefore, King Kong with its stop-motion is more complicated, but that doesn't mean that its looks real. Let's face it, King Kong doesn't look real.

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Godzilla has a guy in a suit.


And King Kong has a creepy fake stop motion ape.

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Whoa, hold on. The effects in both films were fantastic and the effects here were superior, but let's give credit where credit's due-- this movie was made 21 years later. There were a lot of technical advancements being made over the years.

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Actually, the whole thing is silly comparing two movies using two entirely different mediums. Godzilla's effects were quite good, although, I do think Eiji Tsuburaya and his fx team actually got better as they did more of these features. Godzilla's suit would not be as bulky (to the great relief of Harao Nakajima). The piano wire on the planes would not be as visible, etc. Tsuburaya would work wonders and many fail to realize that his crew (unlike today's Hollywood blockbusters), only had a short time to achieve everything.

King Kong's effects were groundbreaking and would highly influence many, including Tsuburaya. For a stop-motion puppet such as Kong to become a huge Hollywood star, is a great testament to Willis O'Brien.

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"OK, let's not get carried away. I consider myself a big Godzilla fan, but King Kong is one of the all-time classics of special effects. Godzilla has a guy in a suit. There's no comparison."

And stop-motion is really just lumps of clay formed into shapes that resemble monsters. What's your point?

The other poster also had a good point that you seem to be ignoring...

"The use of a suit makes Godzilla's movements far more lifelike than KK's jerky stop motion."

You don't have a rebuttal for that one, do you?

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Considering you probably consider yourself a critic, I must ask you this. Do you know what an opinion is?

http://halloweenfans.proboards60.com/index.cgi

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Hey, you kno what they say: everyone's a critic. And everyone can have an opinion and I think mine is very valid.

I don't know how anyone could compare King Kong to Godzilla and think the special effects aren't a world better in King Kong. I mean, look at it. It's clearly a guy in a lizard suit stomping models. At least in King Kong, the effects were creative and imaginatively done and fun to watch.

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Biodorah X whats up, you seem to have kind of dropped the new gojira remake thread, I was still wanting to discuss it a bit, you had some great ideas, but whatever, I posted some pics over there of what the Godzilla in the original american godzilla remake movie was going to look like, and it was pretty awesome, but of coure, Emmerich and Devlin screwed it up.

1-18-08
So unique you can't describe it
So iconic you can't forget it

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[deleted]

You are a complete loser JaneSchmo, Godzilla (1954) is the greatest Monster movie of all time. Why not you go and say King Kong is a bad movie.

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[deleted]

I don't know how you or anyone else blessed with sight can King Kong and this junk and even compare the two.

King Kong didn't simply use stop motion. They used every trick in the book and invented some more while Godzilla exploited two prehistoric even for its time techniques. Guy in a lizard suit and very obvious cardboard models. It's so boring and just dead in the water.

As dated as King Kong is, at least they are fun to watch, while the effects here and the movie they are in are just dead in the water.

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[deleted]

Ah, I see, so you're not blind but just ignorant then?

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[deleted]

Gojira just whips KK as a film.

KK is basically just a blockbuster; a 30s equivalent of films like "Pirates of the Caribbean"; entertaining, but narratively shallow.
It's acting and character development are wooden, and it lacks depth.

Gojira, on the other hand, is more in line with films like "Schindler's List", a dark film with three-dimensional characters and a powerful subtext.






"Impressive. So, Kira, without actually laying a hand on someone, you can kill?" L, Death Note

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You could say the exact same thing about Godzilla's acting and character developement- laughable and wooden. In KK at least, the 30s acting is entertaining.

Godzilla has a pacifist message but it's not the Schindler's List of its time, it's the Day After Tomorrow of its time.

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Gojira invests its characters with far greater depth, conflict and moral complexity as the two-dimensional ones in King Kong.

They form a tight character play where each plays off the others, and their differing views and motives form a symblic representation of the nuclear arms issue.

In King Kong, there is less depth; Anne's only purpose is to scream endlessly and provide a motive for Kong, and the others are given only basic development.

Your argument is further weakened by your claims of what is "entertaining," as this is an entirely subjective term.





"Impressive. So, Kira, without actually laying a hand on someone, you can kill?" L, Death Note

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I'm impressed by the thought you've put into Godzilla but I really didn't feel that way. To me, the characters and their motives and personalities are cliched, brainless and completely muddled. Take the scientist played by Takashi Shimura- he wants to let Godzilla live for no good reason whatsoever except that all movie scientists in all monster movies want to keep the beast alive...and I know what you're going to say but he could equally well study the carcass.

King Kong's story has a fairy tale like simplicity and the best character of all is King Kong.

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Both movies I would say are great ones. But the thing you have to look at is the sequels/remakes. King Kong has I think 3 total, let me know if I'm wrong, and those are not counting the few toho made. Godzilla has 28. not counting the american crapfest, with the next one on it's way in 2013. I'm not saying that all the sequels that Godzilla has are all masterpieces, but it has to be taken into account that if King Kong was so superior than why wouldn't it have more sequels.

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Honestly, I'm shocked Godzilla has inspired so many sequels, remakes and knockoffs. It's a film that should have been forgotten the week it was made.

And you have to compare the quality of the remakes. King Kong inspired a version Pauline Kael loved and a great film directed by Peter Jackson. Godzilla inspired Matthew Broderick's worst movie.

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The Peter Jackson version of Kong was almost as laughable as the american godzilla. The quality of the Godzilla sequels are very high if you consider The Heisei series that came out in the 1990's. Those were high quality movies. Even tho they weren't made with a hollywood budget and didn't have the hollywood big names to them, they were still better movies. Also, the american godzilla doesn't even seem to be inspired by the japanese godzilla besides having the same name.

Also like they have said before this is a matter of opinion and I am not trying to tell you that you can't have your opinion. But if you take one "remake" out of 30 movies, thats a very good percentage of good movies that have been made.

This is kind of like comparing Star Wars and Harry Potter. Not to get off topic but when people say Potter is better than Star Wars, you can't just forget about how much Star Wars has been made. With the games, the toys, the movies. It's the same with Godzilla, you just can't forget about the figures, the movies, the games, the books. If it was such a bad movie than how come all the stuff was made for Godzilla and not King Kong?

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Beats me. How Godzilla became such an institution outside of the films is beyond me. Although King Kong is just as famous as Godzilla.

That it's popular doesn't mean that it's good. Slavery used to be popular, too.

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Well, you're only one person. About 90 percent of the people who have seen it loved it. Another 9 merely liked it. You fit into that 0.00000001% of people that absolutely hated it.

Let me ask you again. Do you know what an opinion is? Also, I'd like to know what you think a fact is.

http://halloweenfans.proboards60.com/index.cgi

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I would not agree that King Kong is as popular as Godzilla. If you look at world wide popularity then Godzilla is way more popular. Both are popular, but Godzilla is not called the king of the monsters for nothing.

Also, it's not fair to compare this to slavery. That is something that was horrible in real life and these are just movies.

And I agree with Biodorah X this is just a matter of opinion whether one is better than the other.

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I like how this guy acts as if he were actually around in 1954 and knew how well the special effects did or did not hold up.

Newsflash: just because a special effects technique is "old" does not make it unconvincing. Stop motion effects were the CGI of those times, and to put these two films in comparison with today's standards, we have movies that use CGI quite convincingly such as Jurassic Park and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, where as there are still moments where we use older techniques. Jurassic Park used animatronic techniques that were nothing new at all, but worked even more convincingly than the CGI shots did. The Dark Knight and Iron Man used tons of practical effects, that despite being the "old method" worked very VERY well. Gojira may have used the old man-in-suit method instead of stop motion, but that was because stop motion just wouldn't have achieved the same level of realism. When creatures are as big as Godzilla they have to move slowly to be convincing. And stop-motion was a very difficult technique to pull off that slow-moving behemoth feeling that the film was going for. Godzilla was not some herky-jerky fast moving beast. He dragged and sludged his way through the city like a slow moving bomb. Stop motion could have NEVER done that as effectively.

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Actually, Eiji Tsuburaya was considering stop-motion. But the reality was the Japanese film system itself. Unlike in Hollywood where someone like Ray Harryhausen was given several months grace to do the animation, the Japanese film system had considerable shorter production times (someone like Akira Kurosawa was basically one of few allowed to have long production schedules).

Toho wanted GODZILLA released as soon as possible and stop-motion would have been to time consuming, so Tsuburaya had to abandon those plans and instead use the man-in-suit techniques. But Tsuburaya's men-in-suits approach was much more elaborate and creative than the suits Hollywood or Europe were doing.

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Where do you get those numbers from? I guarantee that if you showed this to any modern audience, you'd get 2 hours of catcalls and laughter. About 90% of people *on this board* might love it, more like.

Again, even if it is popular doesn't mean anything except that it's popular. Bad movies have always grossed money and attracted bad movie goers in millions.

Sure, people can have different opinions about the merits of a film but I think my opinion is perfectly valid because I know a bad movie when I see one.

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Well I think that if you showed any old movie including King Kong to a modern audience they would do the same. The modern audience does not think the same way as the audiences in that time.

The style of these two movies are totally different. The american style of movies are different than the japanese. Just because you say that the acting is bad in this movie doesn't mean that it is bad, it is just a different style of acting in Japan that you are not used to. If you show King Kong, or most american movies for that matter, to a japanese audience they would feel it had bad acting.

Also, for you opinion being valid cause you know a bad movie when you see one, you are the one who said that peter jackson's king kong was a great movie. Now that was a flawed movie, and one of the worse I have ever seen. Nobody's opinion is more valid than someone else's.

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[deleted]

Sequel don't really mean anything; hell, 'The Amityville Horror' had a lot of sequels.

As for 'Gojira' and 'King Kong;' they are both cinematic masterpieces. The only time Godzilla and King Kong should fight, is when they are both onscreen.

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[deleted]

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[deleted]

Many crappy movies had more sequels than Godfather. Does this mean that these movies are better than Godfather(one of the greatest movie ever made)?

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"he wants to let Godzilla live for no good reason whatsoever"

Except here you're wrong. He very specifically wants Gojira to sruvive because of the fact that Gojira somehow survived being massively irradiated, while any human would be subject to one of the more horrific forms of death there is. He wanted to try to get the chance to study Gojira in the hopes of being able to treat the victims of fallout, which is honestly quite noble all in all.

"From a phylogenetic perspective, we are all fish!"

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I think your right and wrong. Your right that he SAID he wants to study Gojira to learn how to treat the fallout victims.

However you've misinterpreted the whole meaning of the film, the film didn't mean to portray Gojira as innocent. Gojira was a metaphor for the enemies of WW2, the director created this Gojira monster to portray the behavor of the evil enemies, causing destruction to towns and cities for no reason.

And the man who SAID he wanted to study Gojira was lying. He was actually an enemy of the state who wanted to allow the war to continue, causing unknown destruction to the country.

Sorry to contradict you but I'm a massive fan of this film and have done extensive research into the underlying meanings; to a casual viewer such as yourself I can understand why you think the way you do. However great films like this often have many layers.

If your interested in learning more then watch the film again but not as a casual viewer, watch it with a sharp eye and concentrate in understanding these underlying layers.

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"However you've misinterpreted the whole meaning of the film, the film didn't mean to portray Gojira as innocent. Gojira was a metaphor for the enemies of WW2, the director created this Gojira monster to portray the behavor of the evil enemies, causing destruction to towns and cities for no reason. "

I'm sorry, but I have NO idea where you got this interpretation. All of my own study, and the remarks from the director himself, have always referred to Gojira being a dual-natured creature: A metaphor for a nuclear holocaust, and a victim. Which is part of the reason they went to great lengths to make the scales look like radiation scarring. The ending of the film in particular was meant to be particularly tragic for everyone involved. By the way, I do not consider myself a casual observer at all, this film in particular has special significance to me. The first time I saw the Rialto print, I was in complete awe at the story I saw, and I have since re-watched the film many times over.



"From a phylogenetic perspective, we are all fish!"

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" A metaphor for a nuclear holocaust, and a victim. Which is part of the reason they went to great lengths to make the scales look like radiation scarring."

Yes they went through great lengths to make Gojira's scales look like radiation scarring, however he wasn't the victim. He was a metaphor for the nuclear weapons themselves. Gojira IS a nuclear bomb, wiping out entire towns and villages. You must remember when dealing with this film it is 1954 Japan, the real nuclear attacks occurred only 10 years before the release of this film. The director and audience have a strong hate for Gojira, the metaphor for an evil nuclear weapon. Thus the director and audience want Gojira destroyed as he IS the evil, he IS what caused the audience REAL grief only yesterday (yesterday from 1954).

I know sometimes directors say false statements to add another layer of depth to the meaning. They want to give a false meaning, to make the true meaning (the one I highlighted in my original reply) even more special, and even more exclusive to true Gojira fans. Again, most viewers wouldn't look deeper, but I have a sharp eye in film, and am highly talented in film analysis, and THUS am one of the very few who have unlocked the puzzle the director set for the viewers.

Chris

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Ah see I still cannot agree with you, because I also have a sharp eye for film, and in fact have been working in the industry for several years. When I watch the film I can very easily see both natures at the end. You are correct that directors will make false statements, but I do not see that being the case here. I am finding it interesting how different our opinions are on this matter though. Would you mind clarifying what scenes in particular made you feel the director and the audience had a strong hate for Gojira?

"From a phylogenetic perspective, we are all fish!"

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The scene when Gojira is over the mountain destroying everything, the scene he (or to please the feminists "it" as Gojira's organs were not clearly visible so was asexual) is destroying the city at the end.

Of course the meaning of the film is subjective, and you've interpreted the meaning from your own emotional viewing point, and that's okay, I'm sure the director would've welcomed any interpretation.

However I actually have a major in film studies, and my observations are from a neutral emotional standpoint. My observations are based on technical analysis, which cannot be faked, I studied for 4 years learning the technical skills required to see beyond the initial "feelings", I base my analysis on facts and research.

So yes it's subjective, but since I'm qualified my opinion is actually recognized as a valid source. But you are a fan, and fans opinions differ more depending on their mood when they first viewed the film, or for a host of other reasons.

You work within the industry? What qualifications do you have?

I don't mean to be too personal, but your views are very unique, and not in line with the general professional consensus on this issue. So I'm just interested if your work in the industry is with professionals, or if your work is with more indie amateur leaning productions.

I think we could do a good review together. I could be the professional reviewer with the technical analysis, and you could have a subsection called "Fanzone opinion" or something like that, it would be good to put the two contrasting standpoints together; factual analysis vs emotional analysis.

Chris

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I am an actor, trained by a SAG member. I have been working in film for going on five years now, have been in several independent productions, and have studied consistently for going on 12 years now. I have worked with several professionals, and am close friends with a few as well. I agree that film is subjective, but would argue that though you have been educated on the study of film, are not immune to bias. I am sure you check your bias as much as possible, as do I, but I also know that the director has made his own statements regarding his intentions for the film, and I can see those intentions executed within the film itself. Perhaps, as an actor, I am looking at it from a different perspective, but I also consider myself quite neutral, when it comes to film.

I will admit, I find the idea of working on a review together might be interesting. In fact, I think I will private message you in a moment.

"From a phylogenetic perspective, we are all fish!"

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@Tsavo

By the way I've sent you a friend request because these days it's rare to find someone that appreciates the original Gojira. If you want to learn more about him we can PM and I can teach you more

Chris

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I agree! It is nice to find someone who loves the film as much as I do, and while I don't really agree at all with your interpretation, it would be very interesting to talk about it and see where our views differ! Nice to meet you!

"From a phylogenetic perspective, we are all fish!"

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This makes me so angry I don't know what to say.
All I can think is "What a moron." But I digress...
Godzilla is a masterpiece. The special effects are quite impressive but what really carries it is the moody atmosphere through the lighting, direction and score. The story is one of the most engaging and tragic of any horror or science fiction film to date.
Most importantly, you're comparing a fantasy film (king kong) with a dark as hell social piece (Godzilla).
Clearly, you simply don't understand the latter.
Stick to fluff, you'll be more at home.

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Gojira is a very good movie i have the two DVD set i most of the time i watch the 54 version

Yes it does have a message about the A-Bomb but remember two things
One 9 years before the the movie was made two A-Bombs where droped in Japan and remember the Daigo *beep* Maru ( Lucky Dragon No 5 ) which was exposed to and contaminated by nuclear fallout from the United States' Castle Bravo thermonuclear device test on Bikini Atoll, on March 1, 1954.

Kuboyama Aikichi, the boat's chief radioman, died a half a year later, on September 23, 1954, suffering from acute radiation syndrome. He is considered the first victim of the hydrogen bomb of Operation Castle BRAVO.

If you watch the two vewrsions of the movie you can tell some of the talk about Nuclear weapons has been cut out this is why i like G 54

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I love King Kong, but the special effects in that movie, however impressive they may have been at the time, are very unconvincing now, with the exception of some of the matte work which still holds up. Otherwise, the stop motion is jerky and distracting. The footage of Godzilla in the first flick is slightly more convincing because it is often dark and kept to a minimum (and wisely so). But the bottom line, is the film itself is a poetic masterpiece of cinema. You have to overlook special effects in an old movie. When I was a kid, I thought Star Wars was unsurpassable, but watch it now and it looks dated (I'm not talking about the re-tinkered 1997 version).

Insert pretentious signature here

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[deleted]

Am I the only one on earth who thinks King Kong sucks? It is not even a monster movie.

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[deleted]

Really?
I'm a critic.

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"Am I the only one who thinks King Kong sucks? Is is not even a monster movie."

Then would you mind telling us what it is?

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[deleted]

You want to respond to the post above me. I had never made that statement.

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