Kip, a gay character?


I assume that Kip is gay. He works in musicals and he seems to be fag to Amanda's hag. Adam says that Kip wouldn't have very far to go to become a woman.

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Maybe, marcusflute. I just saw the movie last night--and it seemed like the movie was very "cutting edge" for a lot of reasons. Not only did it explore the womens right movement (somewhat ahead of its time) but it took a look at other general inequalities and stereotypes that probably weren't talked about much in that time.

Having said that, I think that if the movie was able to be completely "unleashed", Kip probably would have been gay. Just as that circus performer who lifted Spencer Tracy up in the courtroom probably was supposed to be lesbian (he referred to her as a "He-Lady"). I think there was some subtle implications.

However, it was Kip who ended up putting moves on Mrs. Bonner and wrote a song about how beautiful she was. So, that might have been the classy late 40s way of portraying a gay guy without coming right out and saying it. And they had him have heterosexual feelings for the purposes of movie and cultural standards, thereby still depticted him as just being effeminate, perhaps, but not "gay" per se.

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I liked seeing their bedroom arrangement: two beds, per Hayes code, but one (the one he wakes up in) is at least a double and looks well slept in in the first bedroom scene. Probably as close as you could come to showing a married couple sharing a bed in 1949, even a couple of actors who were alleged to be involved offscreen ...

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Oh I don't think "alleged" is necessary - they were an item for around 26 years!

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whatever his intended unintended hinted at orientation... one things for certain.. HE ANNOYS THE %&#$ OUT OF ME.

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Awwww, I thought he was as funny as anything. A lot of movies in the 40s had husbands and wives with some other guy hanging around longing for the wife. One that comes to mind is Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House, another funny film. I thought David Wayne looked cute with his crew cut. I especially liked the end of this movie when Tracy gets the best of them.

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I thought Kip was funny-(of course that's not like him being a real life annoying neighbor). I think Adam made that "woman" remark out of jealosy. And there is a difference between being effete and gay. It's a shame people assume a character is gay because he's a coward and writes music. Rogers and Hammerstein ,for instance, were both straight. There've been many talented gay composers,of course,and cowardly straight men. I've seen no connection between gender and talent or bravery in gay or straight people I've known. It's about the individual person ,I think. For the record I'm a straight female, and have had friends and colleagues of all genders.

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friends and colleagues all genders?
so.. men and women... and sexless peoples.. and MTF and FTM.. and all the in betweens?

where on earth do you work/make friends? sounds mighty confused.. possibly something in the water?

regardless... i dont know what on earth gender identity or even gender has to do with this conversation.. or even your original comments... kip didnt seem like a transsexual to me...???


lol

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**SPOILER ALERT**

I think Porter was absolutely one of THE finest composers we've ever had....beautiful lyricist and composer. "Farewell Amanda" certainly wasn't one of his best pieces of music (and it was based on one of his songs...lyrics changed for the film), but he was a genius.

I saw this film again last night (the last time I saw it, actually, was the very night before Katharine Hepburn died, in 2003, and I was so sad the next day. She's been my favorite actress for more than 30 years, since I was in grade school. I absolutely adore her). I think this has become my favorite Hepburn-Tracy film. It's superb. She was so far ahead of her time...I always knew this, but watching this film so crystallized it for me, especially not having seen any of her films for so long (though I have seen just about every one of them over the years).

SPOILER ALERT ***When she gets mad after he slaps her during her massage, and her reaction to it.**** Wonderful scene...she genuinely seemed extremely angry at him, and I loved it.

I loved the ending as well, when they declare their political parties ...which came as no surprise to me.

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[deleted]

Yes, and how about when she tells Kip:
-Now you sound like a man.
And he replies:
-Watch your language (or something to that effect).
That and the Spencer quote lookes very straight to me, despite his moves towards Katharine.

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The character is a pill. His non-stop remarks during the home movie assured me I was going to hate this character througout, although one of his lines was funny ("Tree-kissing. An old Connecticut custom!")

If this ass annoys you you'll never make it through 'Laura.' Clifton Webb plays a bitchy, condescending newspaper writer. I wanted to strangle him. He easily surpasses David Wayne in being an A-hole closet case.

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Thanks about the warning re "Laura"! I'll stay away from it. I always thought Kip to be the most obnoxious character in cinema history, but I had to change my mind after watching "Bus Stop". Bo was at least twice as annoying!


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Rome. By all means, Rome.

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Please don't avoid Laura because of this issue. It's only a small part of the film and it's one of the best film noirs ever.

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They needed a certain amount of denial ability back then. So they make the gay character attracted to the female. Thus those in the know will see him as gay and others can see what they want to see.

A forerunner for this role was Alberto Beddini, the Italian 'lover' in the film Top Hat.



Living Is Easy With Eyes Closed

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That sounds about right. As the saying goes, this guy was queer as a three-dollar bill (not that there's anything wrong with that), but they could only go so far with the whole gay thing.




I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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While I agree that a 1949 US audience would probably see whatever they want to see in Kip, I think today's audiences (and gay members of the audience of the day) would immediately recognize the man as gay, and also understand the need to marry a beard, as one way to avoid suspicion and the anti-gay measures of the day (for example, see the notorious 1950 US Senate report "Employment of Homosexuals and Other Sex Perverts in Government"). Even in the last few years we've learned of many such men in government and religion, although these days they tend to be more of the self-hating variety, rather than the self-defending.

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Yes, most any gay person today would recognize the "bitchy queen" stereotype, and George Cukor certainly would be aware of it. This was no accident. Kip's gay for sure to those attuned enough to see it, and not to those who aren't (especially back then).

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I don't think there's anything about Kip's sexual orientation even implied in this movie, even though he claims to be in love with Amanda. but I do beoieve that if this movie were made today, Kip would be gay.

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Although he's seen making passes at Amanda, I've always assumed he not only was meant to be gay, but was an alter-ego for Cukor, representing the filmmaker looking at the heterosexual relationship between two characters, played by actor friends of his.

"Sometimes you have to take the bull by the tail, and face the truth" - G. Marx

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First about David Wayne -- he did a great job of playing an annoying character. See him in HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE where he plays a somewhat mousy character. He was a great comic character actor.

Then about the "somewhat gay" portrayal -- I always thought Wayne's character was modeled after (the very gay) Cole Porter. Porter was in a marriage of convenience with a woman. "Gay identity" and the "gay community" as we've understood it for the past 40 years didn't exist in 1949.

Let's just say that David Wayne's character is "Metrosexual" (another term that certainly didn't exist in 1949).



"The good end happily, the bad unhappily, that is why it is called Fiction."

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It's interesting... David Wayne played Bensinger in the 74 version of The Front Page, and played him absolutely as a gay man, they even invented another reporter for him to come on to. The same character in the 1931 film was played by Edward Everett Horton, who we have finally realized was a gay man. There were hints of effeminacy in his Bensinger, which could have been taken farther than they were in that pre-code movie, which Wayne fleshed out in the Lemmon-Matthau version.

All this to say that when I saw this movie for the first time last night, I immediately realized that Kip was a gay man. He was closeted, and thus pretending to be sexually attracted to Amanda, when he really was just enamored of her in the way gay men sometimes are to certain women (think Garland, Streisand, Cher... you know what I mean). It was clear to me that Amanda was aware that she was operating as his beard. Of course, all this had to be as delicately handled as the bedroom situation in the Bonner's apartment, the two beds, one pristine and the other obviously slept in, by two people. I have always wondered if the censors were that clueless, not to see some of this stuff, or if they just turned the other way, as long as it was sufficiently hidden. I also wonder how many censors were actually gay, participating in their own denigration.

This is a wonderful movie, btw. I will watch it again.

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Oh, he works in musicals!!!
Pattern: single man + piano = gay? Kip in Adam's Rib, Ned in Holiday, Carlo in My Man Godfrey, ... Isn't this too easy?


--
Rome. By all means, Rome.

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Reminds me of the famous reply of one performer who was asked "that question."
He said, "I'm over 60, I've never been married, and I work in musical theatre. You connect the dots!"

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I once knew a guy whose hobby was ballet dancing, and who had a girlfriend! Simply disgusting! ;-)

--
Rome! By all means, Rome.

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Probably not so much "disgusting" as "outside the stereotype".

Too many people want to look at only one aspect of a person and use that to categorize, to pigeonhole, to label.

Most of the people I know are more like polished gemstones: many facets.

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I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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I didn't think Kip was gay. He brought the glam "Emerald Nestlerode" to the Bonner's dinner party and he kept making passes at Amanda especially toward the end in his apartment looking for any excuse to get a kiss. Not the usual gay modus operandi.

"You may as well go to perdition in ermine; you're sure to come back in rags." Katharine Hepburn

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